Bafang M500/M600 Tuning & The BESST Tool

[ornias]

Bare in mind that mine is a very late unit with plastic main gear and with the latest firmware on a 14S3P 21700 battery.
bottom couple of assist levels, looking forward particularly if the reliability is as good as Bafang had in their older motors.

Be carefull: the board is not build to accept 60V max charge voltage, it really pushes some components.

 

[patdam]

Interesting first couple of hours on the M600 last night riding in mostly steep and tricky single track with the abnormal growth levels of vegetation around and even over the paths this year. I had some trepidation about buying the M600 from the reports here and other forums but now having ridden one I can honestly say that this motor with minor tweaking will be as good as its fellow manufacturers products, possibly better.

Bare in mind that mine is a very late unit with plastic main gear and with the latest firmware on a 14S3P 21700 battery.

First impressions is that it’s very very quiet apart from almost the Prius type high frequency electric motor whine, certainly quieter than the Bosch Gen 4 and in the Brose category. It’s very very powerful and it surprised me even compared to the Brose which I consider the market leader, how much power it can put out. We have a long hill which gradually increases in steepness and in a straight drag race with the Brose owner who is virtually the same weight, winner winner and quite easily.

So where are the downsides. Sorry for you guys that want 1200 W’s + it’s not for you, for the guys who want to ride with analogue riders, it’s really really not for you, level 1 is just way to powerful, for the guys who want lightweight it’s not for you, it eats battery and understandably so when you consider that in level 1 it will pull 450 W’s, that’s getting into mid levels of assist of the Euro engines, which will too eat batteries if you run them in the higher assist levels. For the riders who want an over punchy off the bottom motor who exclusively ride in higher assist levels and ride steeper territory then sign up and get your wallet out.

Where would I change the motor, early days but the bottom assist levels are just way to powerful to be a really good all round motor. I think that’s it’s main problem at the moment as with that sort of punchiness with 450 W’s as it’s lowest assist level then you can see why we are getting reports of difficult to ride in tricky conditions ( to fast of ramp up for tricky starts but exactly what I would expect if I was starting off in higher assist levels in other motors ) and the consequent poor battery consumption with that higher minimum assist level. My guess if you could say tame down those first 2 assist levels and perhaps even spread the assist values over the 9 levels available, as standard then the motor wouldn’t be far off its competitors.

Lets see where this goes but certainly a better motor than being reported in some quarters in my view. It took me only a couple of hours to adapt my riding style to really begin to enjoy its over powerful and punchy bottom end ( it could seriously make one a very lazy rider ) and if it wasn’t for the overly powerful bottom couple of assist levels, looking forward particularly if the reliability is as good as Bafang had in their older motors.

my appreciation.

M500 could be used on 3 mode (enough) but it lack a few powerfull in max mode.

M600 need to be used in 9 mode (too powerfull) i using max 5 on 9 but the 1 mode stay a few too powerfull if you want to use more your physical



I hope in few time an soft rev who correcting these points, and they wil be the best motor in the market, silent and throttle for walk mode are allready acquired, fiability seem also (few problem easly manageable), spare parts available is bad point, but unit price alow to have an spare motor easly

 

[Jon A]

...level 1 is just way to powerful, for the guys who want lightweight it’s not for you, it eats battery and understandably so when you consider that in level 1 it will pull 450 W’s, that’s getting into mid levels of assist of the Euro engines, which will too eat batteries if you run them in the higher assist levels.... it’s lowest assist level then you can see why we are getting reports of difficult to ride in tricky conditions ( to fast of ramp up for tricky starts but exactly what I would expect if I was starting off in higher assist levels in other motors ) and the consequent poor battery consumption with that higher minimum assist level.

That's largely the impression I got from the Ultra with the stock programming as well. The good news is if ornias 'n the gang can crack the code, this certainly can be fixed. It's fixed on my Ultra. I can't claim any credit as the tuning I'm using is largely a copy of Frey's "smooth" tuning, with some adjustments to suit me (and I expect I'll be fine tuning it for quite a while until I get it exactly how I want). Among other improvements for low speed/low power, once you can tune you can alter the calibration curve of the torque sensor and thus alter the shape of the power output curve. The Frey will give you a curve that resembles something more like the eMTB or Magictour in this chart:

I've found this makes each assist level much more versatile and the higher assist modes much more usable. I can now pretty much put the bike in a mid-higher assist level and just go ride the bike without needing to switch modes. Light pedaling, level ground, low speed maneuvers and it responds with very light amounts of torque and battery usage. But the full power of that assist level is on tap if you want to pedal hard to blast up to high speed or if you encounter a hill.

Anyway, when you can program the motor, all this is possible.

 

[savas]

Hi Guys,
so i did a small upgrade-32 tooth chainring.Tested it with 42 casette ,the consumption on 8% incline on lvl 1 out of 5 was max 120w.I am verry happy.The 52tooth casette might be overkill!Keep in mind i am using an older firmware for m600

 

[ornias]

That's largely the impression I got from the Ultra with the stock programming as well. The good news is if ornias 'n the gang can crack the code, this certainly can be fixed. It's fixed on my Ultra. I can't claim any credit as the tuning I'm using is largely a copy of Frey's "smooth" tuning, with some adjustments to suit me (and I expect I'll be fine tuning it for quite a while until I get it exactly how I want). Among other improvements for low speed/low power, once you can tune you can alter the calibration curve of the torque sensor and thus alter the shape of the power output curve. The Frey will give you a curve that resembles something more like the eMTB or Magictour in this chart:

View attachment 67711

I've found this makes each assist level much more versatile and the higher assist modes much more usable. I can now pretty much put the bike in a mid-higher assist level and just go ride the bike without needing to switch modes. Light pedaling, level ground, low speed maneuvers and it responds with very light amounts of torque and battery usage. But the full power of that assist level is on tap if you want to pedal hard to blast up to high speed or if you encounter a hill.

Anyway, when you can program the motor, all this is possible.

Can you send me a copy of that Fram m600 smooth firmware please?

 

[Madforit23]

Short update:
It seems we are having some success in manually altering the firmwares to allow for a higher max current.
This means we can now invite more if you to test:

Bafang_M500_M600/Firmwares/Custom/Motor at main · OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600

Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Also, we've been able to unlock the hidden engineer section for controller alterations in the latest version of the BESST hardware tool. You can try it out yourself by using our "login bypass" for BESST, which is pre-configured to also unlock the engineer section. Sadly enough we've not yet been able to get it to actually read data, but we gladly invite anyone to try and verify our results (as reading the data is pretty safe either way).

Bafang_M500_M600/BESST at main · OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600

Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Hi Ornias, I'm new to the forum and it's great to see the amazing work you and others are doing with the M500 and 600 motor controllers. I have just bought a new Czech Republic Crussis e-Largo 9-6-L with the M500 motor and this is coupled to a Panasonic 900wh battery. I bought a BESST tool from Holland Bikes and installed the 1.2.23 software and I managed to alter the speed restriction to 40km/h which I thought was enough. I previously had a Haibike with the 75nm Yamaha motor and it felt more powerful in max assistance than the M500 does, even though it states it has 95nm of torque. I am very interested in flashing my controller with your experimental 36v 20a firmware mod. I have attached the readouts from BESST for my controller and HMI. Please look at my screenshots and advise whether you think your modded firmware could be flashed to my controller.

 

[ornias]

Please look at my screenshots and advise whether you think your modded firmware could be flashed to my controller.

I've yet to recieve any reports of the firmware failing on a m500

 

[Madforit23]

I've yet to recieve any reports of the firmware failing on a m500

Thanks for the quick reply Ornias.
Is the m500 firmware you modified the same as the version shown in my screen shots in my first post, I'm more worried as to whether it will work correctly with my integrated 900wh battery. Have you found any indication in the firmware that it has settings for the battery size?

 

[ornias]

Have you found any indication in the firmware that it has settings for the battery size?

I'm fine with quick responses, but at this stage it becomes annoying. Whats next, asking if your bike color is of relevant, the orderdate of the motor is of relevant etcetcetc. Those screenshots are also not really relevant at all.

It has been long proven by bafang themselves that the Amp limit is firmware based, not hardware related.

If you are worrying this much, maybe you shouldn't install experimental firmware. There is no guarantees and there never has been any.

Sorry if I come off as rude, but I get the feeling you are fishing for some sort of guarantee or check.
I'm NOT going to check everyones indivuvidual board for compatibility, there is no known compatible or known incompatible board anyway. So I did not even lock at your screenshots byond motorversion and voltage.

 

[Madforit23]

I'm fine with quick responses, but at this stage it becomes annoying. Whats next, asking if your bike color is of relevant, the orderdate of the motor is of relevant etcetcetc. Those screenshots are also not really relevant at all.

It has been long proven by bafang themselves that the Amp limit is firmware based, not hardware related.

If you are worrying this much, maybe you shouldn't install experimental firmware. There is no guarantees and there never has been any.

Sorry if I come off as rude, but I get the feeling you are fishing for some sort of guarantee or check.
I'm NOT going to check everyones indivuvidual board for compatibility, there is no known compatible or known incompatible board anyway. So I did not even lock at your screenshots byond motorversion and voltage.

Ornias, I'm not looking for any guarantees, I know this work is experimental and you need testers to report back, but It would help if I knew you were using the same firmware version as mine. My bike will have the latest 36v firmware because it is new. Is there any link to the battery in the firmware other than the fact it's 36v. I haven't got a copy of my firmware yet otherwise I would just flash it and try.

 

[ornias]

Ornias, I'm not looking for any guarantees, I know this work is experimental and you need testers to report back, but It would help if I knew you were using the same firmware version as mine. My bike will have the latest 36v firmware because it is new. Is there any link to the battery in the firmware other than the fact it's 36v. I haven't got a copy of my firmware yet otherwise I would just flash it and try.

I donnot even have a motor, there are other people testing for me.
We do know there are many references to a lot of things in the firmware. We only managed to reverse engineer a few of them.

I think you are overcomplicating things a lot, motors never cared for wh at all, it's an irrelevant metric made for customers not motors.
You can swap official firmwares all you want, regardless of battery (besides voltage) so why would the battery start to mater when you load ours?

It's experiemental and needs testers.
Like I said: I have no way to magically tell if there are unforeseen consequences. The only thing i can check is the voltage and motor type.

Yet again, if I can only take your motortype and voltage into account. Repeating if there are battery settings that are relevant, does not magically mean I can answer your question.
You might blow up your battery, you might blow up your motor or blow up your controller. but those chances are low.

It's called experimental because it's experimental aka: We need testers.
If your questions where relevant and would be answered, they would be in the github repo. They are not, so either they are not relevant or we donnot know anything related to batteries and the firmware mods.

 

[Madforit23]

I donnot even have a motor, there are other people testing for me.
We do know there are many references to a lot of things in the firmware. We only managed to reverse engineer a few of them.

I think you are overcomplicating things a lot, motors never cared for wh at all, it's an irrelevant metric made for customers not motors.
You can swap official firmwares all you want, regardless of battery (besides voltage) so why would the battery start to mater when you load ours?

It's experiemental and needs testers.
Like I said: I have no way to magically tell if there are unforeseen consequences. The only thing i can check is the voltage and motor type.

Yet again, if I can only take your motortype and voltage into account. Repeating if there are battery settings that are relevant, does not magically mean I can answer your question.
You might blow up your battery, you might blow up your motor or blow up your controller. but those chances are low.

It's called experimental because it's experimental aka: We need testers.
If your questions where relevant and would be answered, they would be in the github repo. They are not, so either they are not relevant or we donnot know anything related to batteries and the firmware mods.

Ok so here is a test update for my bike. I just flashed my controller with the modded firmware. I previously had CRX10NC3615i142017.5 and the wattage on my display showed around 640w max on top power setting. The modded firmware is CRX10NC3615i42059.6. The 36v 20a firmware now only gives me around 540w. When I then flashed the 36v 25a firmware I still only get 540w, there was no difference between the two.

 

[ornias]

Ok so here is a test update for my bike. I just flashed my controller with the modded firmware. I previously had CRX10NC3615i142017.5 and the wattage on my display showed around 640w max on top power setting. The modded firmware is CRX10NC3615i42059.6. The 36v 20a firmware now only gives me around 540w. When I then flashed the 36v 25a firmware I still only get 540w, there was no difference between the two.

I suggest not exceeding the 20A modded firmware version for 36v, There seem to be issues with 20A+ on 36A and 14A+ on 48A.

However: i've had contradicting reports on this. @Kyokushin could you correspond with this user and compare notes?

 

[Madforit23]

@doctorrevenge succesfully flashed his M500 by 36V 20Amps version and wrote bike is noticeable more powerful

Hi kyokushin, I just flashed my new crussis e-largo 9-6-L today with the modded firmware and it actually gives me less power. With my original firmware CRX10NC3615i142017.5 I got around 640w peak and with the modded 36v 20a firmware CRX10NC3615i142059.6 I get 540w peak indicated on my display. I also flashed the 36v 25a version and still only got 540w. So I'm needing a copy of my original firmware now to reflash until the next mod.

 

[Kyokushin]

ensure you have battery fully charged. On the stock (mine was CRX10NC4810i142015.5) i had something around 540W in peak (fw had 10Amps on our 0x774 we're changing, so surely there is second place where max is stored @ornias but i do not know how they correspond each other, even in documentation are three places related to max current), on the 13A version i had 624W and on 14 and 15 i have 670W so it seems 14 is max and is locked somerwhere else.

@Madforit23 You may try to CRX10NC3617i142017.7-28-2230-20200911.bin its stock 17Amps then try again to 20. I can make 19Amps for you, however @doctorrevenge used this experimental 20A and it worked for him.

Surely in my case changing 0x774 to 13 and next to 14 amps changed wattage up to 670W and 15 Amps might raise overall amperage in function of battery charge level (if charge is lower then wattage is going lower) and i thing on around 50% i had higher vattage on 15 Amps f/w than on 14 Amps - i need to verify that - its a field test i need to go for a longer ride and observe wattage.

 

[Madforit23]

ensure you have battery fully charged. On the stock (mine was CRX10NC4810i142015.5) i had something around 540W in peak (fw had 10Amps on our 0x774 we're changing, so surely there is second place where max is stored @ornias but i do not know how they correspond each other, even in documentation are three places related to max current), on the 13A version i had 624W and on 14 and 15 i have 670W so it seems 14 is max and is locked somerwhere else.

@Madforit23 You may try to CRX10NC3617i142017.7-28-2230-20200911.bin its stock 17Amps then try again to 20. I can make 19Amps for you, however @doctorrevenge used this experimental 20A and it worked for him.

Surely in my case changing 0x774 to 13 and next to 14 amps changed wattage up to 670W and 15 Amps might raise overall amperage in function of battery charge level (if charge is lower then wattage is going lower) and i thing on around 50% i had higher vattage on 15 Amps f/w than on 14 Amps - i need to verify that - its a field test i need to go for a longer ride and observe wattage.

Holy s**t, did you say that was stock 17a firmware in your link. It obviously wasn't what was in mine. My bike just turned into a rocket ship. I have to ride in power setting 1 out of 5 in the cruise to stay around the 200 to 250w mark. In my display it only goes up to 750w and in power setting 5 it goes straight to it under load. This should top out at 612w on 17a firmware. It's not just my display either, it really is powerful. I charged my battery before I went out this time. I've attached photos of the wattage in all 5 power settings.

ensure you have battery fully charged. On the stock (mine was CRX10NC4810i142015.5) i had something around 540W in peak (fw had 10Amps on our 0x774 we're changing, so surely there is second place where max is stored @ornias but i do not know how they correspond each other, even in documentation are three places related to max current), on the 13A version i had 624W and on 14 and 15 i have 670W so it seems 14 is max and is locked somerwhere else.

@Madforit23 You may try to CRX10NC3617i142017.7-28-2230-20200911.bin its stock 17Amps then try again to 20. I can make 19Amps for you, however @doctorrevenge used this experimental 20A and it worked for him.

Surely in my case changing 0x774 to 13 and next to 14 amps changed wattage up to 670W and 15 Amps might raise overall amperage in function of battery charge level (if charge is lower then wattage is going lower) and i thing on around 50% i had higher vattage on 15 Amps f/w than on 14 Amps - i need to verify that - its a field test i need to go for a longer ride and observe wattage.

Holy s**t, did you say that was stock 17a firmware in your link. It obviously wasn't what was in mine. My bike just turned into a rocket ship. I have to ride in power setting 1 out of 5 in the cruise to stay around the 200 to 250w mark. In my display it only goes up to 750w and in power setting 5 it goes straight to it under load. It's not just my display either, it really is powerful. I charged my battery before I went out this time. I've attached photos of the wattage in all 5 power settings.

 

[Kyokushin]

@ornias it seems the address we’re changing may not be exactly max current :| Or there is something different we don't know, some multiplier etc. CRX10NC3617i142017.7-28-2230-20200911.bin this may be interesting subject for analysis.
On 0x774 it have 0F it may means only 15Amps not 17Amps but we see on above its over 750W.
Same case is on mine stock. It have 0A what may mean 10Amps, but it had 570W in peak what is corresponding to 12Amps.
"...thats no moon".

 

[ornias]

I've added some more custom firmwares to try on your own risk.
This time I've modified all m600 firmwares so they are accepted by BESST to flash on a m500 motor.

Initial review by @Kyokushin seems to indicate this was successfull.

Is this safe? Technically speaking at least some revisions of the m500 have half the MOSFETS. However: the m600 MOSFET setup is also capable of handling well over 2000W load and both the electromotor and controllerboard have temperature sensores included. So I'm pretty certain that the m500 board would be able to handle the 1000w peak load (18-20a, 48v)

 

[Kyokushin]

Yes, it worked, i have seen 990W in peak on M500 without temperature jump. It just worked as intended, however pleas be informed its experimental soft, no guarantees here.

Finally i reverted to M500 f/w (670W in peak), but as we can see above the 750W is 'stock' for 36V so we may consider it as safe. I would like to hit something around 750-800W for 48V M500 version to have better margin.

Now it will be great if someone with M600 48V version could check his peak power (Watts on display, CP240/1 have it) on other than CRX10NC4818i132046.7-28-2230-20201121 firmwares (this one have 990W in peak). Maybe 46.6 or 46.5 have lower.
To test it you need to put the higher gear, max assist level and just accelerate (or use throttle).

 

[Kyokushin]

no	filename	reports after flashing	MD5	0x774 value	measured peak power	engine model	other
1​	CRX10NC4810i132003.0-28-2230-20210114-2.bin	CRX10NC4810i132003.0	2ba44bd1fc96f7305d8f386e5dcd4fae	12	~576	M600
2​	CRX10NC4812i142015.5-12A-20210616.bin	CRX10NC4810i142015.5	8f37da1b65ae85d87938fc91b495f0f	0A	~672	M500	reporting same name as CRX10NC4810i142015.5-20191126.bin
3​	CRX10NC4810i142015.5-20191126.bin	CRX10NC4810i142015.5	2c994dce269ea827c540182867d6992b	0A	~576	M500
4​	CRX10NC4818i132014.6-20191126.bin	CRX10NC4818i132014.6	b79263073a6d7a9005c405b7e66603f2	12	~990	M600
5​	CRX10NC4818i132046.6-28-2230-20200824-3.bin	CRX10NC4818i132046.6	4916960cce34b0e3e60ab9d1502ccfb9	12	~990	M600
6​	CRX10NC4818i132046.7-28-2230-20201121.bin	CRX10NC4818i132046.7	7d0de61112c47456556f5520ab679154	12	~990	M600
7​	CRX10NC4810i142050.6-22-1768-20201109.bin	CRX10NC4810i142050.6	3b5c8c55adec18664418f7db1b7ecea7	0A	N/A	M500	throttle locked to walk mode low speed (around 5km/h), unable to test

 

[Waynemarlow]

On my CP240/1 display I can see the bin file in use and the Bafang Go App discusses about how to " update " the firmware via the App which totally dispenses with the need for a BEEST programmer.

Is there anyway we could fool the App from picking up a bin file and updating the motor other than from Bafang directories ?

 

[Kyokushin]

Bluetooth update is not working at all, no matter from bafang cloud or local file. This app is a garbage, however you can use it to see the 'current Amperage' output.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Thats a pity.

 

[markvanhaze77]

So I just got the Besst tool from Holland Shop and of course I have no login. HollandBike is not giving me any either upon emailing them. I would be very grateful if someone could pass me the details.

 

[Pyr0]

You can bypass the login

Bafang_M500_M600/BESST at main · OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600

Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600 development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[markvanhaze77]

Thank you!

 

[Kiwin]

Hello,

I asked Dengfu about how to change speed limit, wheel size and other settings. Here is what they replied to me :

"They don't sell BESST tool to individual customers. Even you get it, you can only use it to change wheels size from 27.5er to 29er. You can't change any other things. If you must order one, we can order with Bafang. But it needs long time, maybe 2-3 months to get it."

Is that true ? we can't change anything but the wheel size ?

I was considering bying a BESST tool in order ton configure the level 1 of assistance, which is mush too powerful in my opinion... Is that really impossible to do ?

Kevin

 

[markvanhaze77]

Hello,

I asked Dengfu about how to change speed limit, wheel size and other settings. Here is what they replied to me :

"They don't sell BESST tool to individual customers. Even you get it, you can only use it to change wheels size from 27.5er to 29er. You can't change any other things. If you must order one, we can order with Bafang. But it needs long time, maybe 2-3 months to get it."

Is that true ? we can't change anything but the wheel size ?

I was considering bying a BESST tool in order ton configure the level 1 of assistance, which is mush too powerful in my opinion... Is that really impossible to do ?

Kevin

You can order the tool from Holland Bike. Shipping was very quick to the UK and no issues. But you cannot get any logins for the software, you have to use the modified one in the previous post.

 

[Kyokushin]

Hello,

I asked Dengfu about how to change speed limit, wheel size and other settings. Here is what they replied to me :

"They don't sell BESST tool to individual customers. Even you get it, you can only use it to change wheels size from 27.5er to 29er. You can't change any other things. If you must order one, we can order with Bafang. But it needs long time, maybe 2-3 months to get it."

Is that true ? we can't change anything but the wheel size ?

I was considering bying a BESST tool in order ton configure the level 1 of assistance, which is mush too powerful in my opinion... Is that really impossible to do ?

Kevin

You can change wheel size, circumference and speed limit. Please note the speed limit you need to set to your local law and usage

 

[Kiwin]

You can change wheel size, circumference and speed limit. Please note the speed limit you need to set to your local law and usage

Yes by default mine is set to 45Km/h, which is much too high compared to french law.
Can we also somehow configure the power applied for each level of assistance ? I really need to reduce the assistance on that level 1, it is much too powerful