What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
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- magic mary tyres vigilante
Jeff McD
Well-known member
Have to agree with Gary that these new were wider tires make the wheels a lot more sluggish and even on the E bike. The 2.8 tires that came on my levo weren't very enthusiastic. Replaced with a 29 wheelset anyway, 30 mm ID and 2.6 inch DHF Front and rear. Much improved but part of me still wants to go back to the narrower tires for better handling when screaming down our extremely technical downhill trails. At first I blamed it all on the increased weight of the bike overall. It's just not flickable. Lately I've been thinking it's partly due to the heavier/ wider tires as well.
I am toying with the idea of going back to 2.30 tires. Only weigh 140 pounds and never ever broke my cross-country wheels. How was the handling of those 2.30 DHF's with 30 mm ID rims? I've read that they were ideally designed for 23 mm ID rims, and wonder if the 30 mm ID would straighten up the side walls excessively so that the edge knobs don't grab in corners. Unfortunately they don't have the thicker reinforced side walls at the bead of the new wide trail tires, and therefore don't allow very low tire pressure. Or possibly 2.4 DHR II front and back in the wide trail version.
Our trails have roots everywhere and they are frequently wet from nightly showers. Just don't know if I could trust the DHR2 to corner as well as DHF and grip wet roots.
I am toying with the idea of going back to 2.30 tires. Only weigh 140 pounds and never ever broke my cross-country wheels. How was the handling of those 2.30 DHF's with 30 mm ID rims? I've read that they were ideally designed for 23 mm ID rims, and wonder if the 30 mm ID would straighten up the side walls excessively so that the edge knobs don't grab in corners. Unfortunately they don't have the thicker reinforced side walls at the bead of the new wide trail tires, and therefore don't allow very low tire pressure. Or possibly 2.4 DHR II front and back in the wide trail version.
Our trails have roots everywhere and they are frequently wet from nightly showers. Just don't know if I could trust the DHR2 to corner as well as DHF and grip wet roots.
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@Jeff McD
Firstly. The original DHF was designed as a pure DH tyre during a time when the two most popular DH rims were the i21mm Mavic D321 and i29mm D329 either stand alone or in the Deemax package. The DHF came in 26" only and in 2,35" and 2.5" and 2.7" widths (and were all slightly undersized if measured with calipers). plenty WC DH riders way faster than you or I raced those tyre/rim combinations very successfully. almost no one used the 2.7 as it lost a lot of the best qualities of the smaller diameter sizes
I have never used a 2.3 DHF with a 30mm rim but can tell you a 2.3/2.35 and a 2.5 on a 25mm rim all work really well.
I am running a 2.3 Minion SS on a 35mm rim on the rear of my Ebike (and a 2.5 DHF upfront on a 30mm rim). the SS works absolutely fine on what is deemed too wide a rim but I won't lie, it isn't ideal. (the shape is bowed out a little more than ideal at the sidewall, The tread is slightly flatter/squarer but not a proble. I am a huge fan of a square edge tyre with good side knob patern (as the entire Minion family of tyres has) and the tyre tread still works just as it's meant to, Fast accelerating, doesn't clog with mud, drifts like a boss when you want it to but still has that lovely edge to dig in and rail when you lean it past the drift and re-weight it
Terrain here is everything from hardpack armoured machine built flowy, jumpy bermy trails to steep natural cut steep technical rock n root covered and everything inbetween. It's Scotland other than this freakishly dry summer we've been having it's generally wet more of the year than dry. And I run nothing but Minions all year round. (DHR2 or DHF upfront, SS/Bling bling rear) A DHR2 corners (when leant over properly) almost indistiguishably to how a DHF and a SS corners. it's the transition between leant over to fully leant over that changes between the 3 tyres. All 3 are predictable as hell if you're a good rider who has a feel for such and aren't scared of the tyres' drift zone. (I've explained this previously, but can again if you don't konw what I mean). cornering on wet roots is a whole other thing though and is often more about good line choice and technique than ultimate tyre grip. All 3 tyres can corner on wet roots as well as any other dry to intermediate conditions tyre. I've said this before but if you ride steep terrain and braking is important choose the DHR2, if you're a pinner who rarely brakes the DHF and unless you have a lot of manmade armoured trails leave the SS for rear only and extra speed/acceleration but slightly less ultimate straight line grip
Also Minions have been around a long time and weren't really designed to work at really low pressures, they work best with decent sidewall support, which means DH casings or decent pressures.
Lastly. Switching from the heavy draggy DD 2.5 DHF 3C tyres and heavy tubes that came on my Emtb to the 2.5 DHF and 2.3 SS both exo dual compound and tubeless absolutely transformed the handling of my bike. it's now massively more nimble and flickable AF. Seriously, with the old tyres it was horrendous on (steep lip) dirt jumps and a pig to drift, scrub or accelerate over the 15mph limit. Lack of enthusiasm is a good description. Thanks. Now I can whip it around, style it and hop off anything I can with my 18lb lighter carbon enduro bike. At your weight I'd definitely be switching to narrower lighter rims (maybe a stans flow/arch) and going no heavier or larger than an Exo 2.5.
All talk I've ever heard of needing Ebike specific wheels and tyres on an Emtb has been from overweight less skilled and generally older riders or mtb industry journalists who talk so much rubbish and push current tag lines it's painful to hear. The same people who generally also seem to say the bike weight doesn't matter. it totally does. If you're used to riding a bike with any semblance of flamboyancy/style.
Firstly. The original DHF was designed as a pure DH tyre during a time when the two most popular DH rims were the i21mm Mavic D321 and i29mm D329 either stand alone or in the Deemax package. The DHF came in 26" only and in 2,35" and 2.5" and 2.7" widths (and were all slightly undersized if measured with calipers). plenty WC DH riders way faster than you or I raced those tyre/rim combinations very successfully. almost no one used the 2.7 as it lost a lot of the best qualities of the smaller diameter sizes
I have never used a 2.3 DHF with a 30mm rim but can tell you a 2.3/2.35 and a 2.5 on a 25mm rim all work really well.
I am running a 2.3 Minion SS on a 35mm rim on the rear of my Ebike (and a 2.5 DHF upfront on a 30mm rim). the SS works absolutely fine on what is deemed too wide a rim but I won't lie, it isn't ideal. (the shape is bowed out a little more than ideal at the sidewall, The tread is slightly flatter/squarer but not a proble. I am a huge fan of a square edge tyre with good side knob patern (as the entire Minion family of tyres has) and the tyre tread still works just as it's meant to, Fast accelerating, doesn't clog with mud, drifts like a boss when you want it to but still has that lovely edge to dig in and rail when you lean it past the drift and re-weight it
Terrain here is everything from hardpack armoured machine built flowy, jumpy bermy trails to steep natural cut steep technical rock n root covered and everything inbetween. It's Scotland other than this freakishly dry summer we've been having it's generally wet more of the year than dry. And I run nothing but Minions all year round. (DHR2 or DHF upfront, SS/Bling bling rear) A DHR2 corners (when leant over properly) almost indistiguishably to how a DHF and a SS corners. it's the transition between leant over to fully leant over that changes between the 3 tyres. All 3 are predictable as hell if you're a good rider who has a feel for such and aren't scared of the tyres' drift zone. (I've explained this previously, but can again if you don't konw what I mean). cornering on wet roots is a whole other thing though and is often more about good line choice and technique than ultimate tyre grip. All 3 tyres can corner on wet roots as well as any other dry to intermediate conditions tyre. I've said this before but if you ride steep terrain and braking is important choose the DHR2, if you're a pinner who rarely brakes the DHF and unless you have a lot of manmade armoured trails leave the SS for rear only and extra speed/acceleration but slightly less ultimate straight line grip
Also Minions have been around a long time and weren't really designed to work at really low pressures, they work best with decent sidewall support, which means DH casings or decent pressures.
Lastly. Switching from the heavy draggy DD 2.5 DHF 3C tyres and heavy tubes that came on my Emtb to the 2.5 DHF and 2.3 SS both exo dual compound and tubeless absolutely transformed the handling of my bike. it's now massively more nimble and flickable AF. Seriously, with the old tyres it was horrendous on (steep lip) dirt jumps and a pig to drift, scrub or accelerate over the 15mph limit. Lack of enthusiasm is a good description. Thanks. Now I can whip it around, style it and hop off anything I can with my 18lb lighter carbon enduro bike. At your weight I'd definitely be switching to narrower lighter rims (maybe a stans flow/arch) and going no heavier or larger than an Exo 2.5.
All talk I've ever heard of needing Ebike specific wheels and tyres on an Emtb has been from overweight less skilled and generally older riders or mtb industry journalists who talk so much rubbish and push current tag lines it's painful to hear. The same people who generally also seem to say the bike weight doesn't matter. it totally does. If you're used to riding a bike with any semblance of flamboyancy/style.
Tim29
Well-known member
I have to agree with you.
As my bulls was 27.5x2.8 front and rear and i went to a 29x 2.5 front an the bike is noticeably faster and strava backs it up. In a 3:30 second 8-13% downhill enduro i see a 11 sec quicker times. Every DH segment the 29x2.5 has better times.
Exp mammoth. I can’t figure out how to get through the kitty litter up top and still have speed in feature park lower. This why i was searching so hard for a 2.6. Trying to find middle ground.
As my bulls was 27.5x2.8 front and rear and i went to a 29x 2.5 front an the bike is noticeably faster and strava backs it up. In a 3:30 second 8-13% downhill enduro i see a 11 sec quicker times. Every DH segment the 29x2.5 has better times.
Exp mammoth. I can’t figure out how to get through the kitty litter up top and still have speed in feature park lower. This why i was searching so hard for a 2.6. Trying to find middle ground.
Tim29
Well-known member
I ordered a set, there small enough volume i don’t think i feel them.
Jeff McD
Well-known member
Thanks Gary, appreciate your input. Exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to try the DHR2 WT next front and rear. I did not know about needing adequate pressure for these tires to perform the best. I've always run ultra low pressures with success but will start trying more.
170 mm lyric fork on my levo which makes it a screamer downhill. I am right behind the fastest guys going down. That's why I'm looking for more flickable. Very tight technical trails, and I have smacked a tree way too often in the past when I couldn't flick the bike fast enough to miss it.
The new roval control SL wheels are 25.4 mm ID and on my next bike, at my light weight, I may just put a set of those on and go back to 2.3 minions. I would miss the stiffer side walls of the WT tires however, yeah, so probably stick with 2. 4 WT.
I have always been a firm believer that less rotating mass makes a bike more flickable at the front as well as lighter in general and that both are equally important.
170 mm lyric fork on my levo which makes it a screamer downhill. I am right behind the fastest guys going down. That's why I'm looking for more flickable. Very tight technical trails, and I have smacked a tree way too often in the past when I couldn't flick the bike fast enough to miss it.
The new roval control SL wheels are 25.4 mm ID and on my next bike, at my light weight, I may just put a set of those on and go back to 2.3 minions. I would miss the stiffer side walls of the WT tires however, yeah, so probably stick with 2. 4 WT.
I have always been a firm believer that less rotating mass makes a bike more flickable at the front as well as lighter in general and that both are equally important.
it'll depend on what you weigh and how you ride too. You're a lot lighter than me so don't go anywhere near the pressures I run. trial and error will find your sweetspot though. You should find the bike will flick and pop more enthusiastically with more supportive pressures too.
Coastsider
Active member
Where I ride on the Coast in California, mix of downhill, enduro and all mountain. Trails are mainly dirt, loose soil and rock gardens. 27.5" x 2.8" MAXXIS DHF and DHR II rein king, they stick to the trial like sh*t to a blanket, I run 18psi front 19psi back tubeless, I weigh 190Ibs.
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- Thread starter
- #279
2.8” Butchers vs 2.6” Magic Mary (in millimetres!)
@Donnie797 I think you asked this in another thread.... measured on the sidewalks, not the tyre knobs.
Butcher 2.8” (2.7” actual)
Magic Mary 2.6 (2.6 Actual)
@Donnie797 I think you asked this in another thread.... measured on the sidewalks, not the tyre knobs.
Butcher 2.8” (2.7” actual)
Magic Mary 2.6 (2.6 Actual)
Maxxis imeasure widths at 60psi.
Spesh tyres are made by CST
CST is Maxxis' parent company.
Put 60psi in and re-measure.
Not that 0.1 of an inch really matters
Spesh tyres are made by CST
CST is Maxxis' parent company.
Put 60psi in and re-measure.
Not that 0.1 of an inch really matters
- Thread starter
- #281
So Butchers could be a very similar tyre to the Minion?
S'funny how Spesh slap lawsuits on folk using their names when they blatantly copied Colin Bailey's classic design.
In construction a Butcher could be very very close to a DHF. The tread pattern is slightly different though. But works in almost the same way a DHF does.
I actually have always liked Spesh.. But their morals are completely fucked.
In construction a Butcher could be very very close to a DHF. The tread pattern is slightly different though. But works in almost the same way a DHF does.
I actually have always liked Spesh.. But their morals are completely fucked.
No offence to Rob. But it wouldn't
Jimi
New Member
It's not really a winter yet, but I'm looking something to replace the original 2.8” Butchers. I have had some issues with the front end grip and the sidewall feels to be thick as cigaret paper.
So what is the environment. First like winter in UK, a bit muddy and rain (sorry for the generalization). Then proper snowy cold, I mean -15celsius with ice... I might go to studded tyres for the mid winter, but what would the choice before it is really cold? There seems to be differences on the tyre mixtures, so what could be a good one for autumn and spring, and could handle even a bit colder climate?
So what is the environment. First like winter in UK, a bit muddy and rain (sorry for the generalization). Then proper snowy cold, I mean -15celsius with ice... I might go to studded tyres for the mid winter, but what would the choice before it is really cold? There seems to be differences on the tyre mixtures, so what could be a good one for autumn and spring, and could handle even a bit colder climate?
By switching to the mm 2.6 are you losing overall diameter and lowering the bike? I'd like to try a thinner tire but with rocks poking up all over Colorado I don't want to get more pedal strikes than I already do.
James_MTB
Well-known member
- Jan 15, 2018
- 354
- 373
Have a look at the Vittoria Mota G+ Rtnt DH Tyre. I love them; improved braking and cornering over the Maxxis DHR II
The Eddy Currents are not available yet but they must be almost ready to drop as they are supposed to be available in autumn and it is meteorological autumn now ?
SCHWALBE Tire Eddy Current 27.5+ | 650B+ x 2.80 Rear ADDIX Soft EVO S
Where? Send me the link please?
Thanks mate, Yes found this but is only the rear tyre, could not find a matching front as these are unfortunately front/rear specific ?
Have you checked your inbox re your shopping list?
Yes, thanks - I had to go to work today (I know...) but will take photos tomorrow
The front Eddy is Here
Ha, saw that too but they are not in stock
Wiggle | WTB Ranger TCS Light Fast Rolling Plus Tyre | Tyres
Will these be any good to make my bike faster rolling for commuting which involves road and off road parts. Currently have very sticky downhill tyres on.
Will these be any good to make my bike faster rolling for commuting which involves road and off road parts. Currently have very sticky downhill tyres on.
it'll be faster rolling than your minions due to both the close spaced short height tread and the harder rubber compound but at 2.8 will probably be a bit draggier than something narrower on roads.
Sounds like WTB are using something similar to Maxxis Dual compound in this tyre
Sounds like WTB are using something similar to Maxxis Dual compound in this tyre
take a look at this page from Maxxis' website. it lists their hardpack tyres
a hardpack tyre is designed to roll faster and grip well in dry conditions but often isn't designed to clear/shed mud or dig into soft conditions
Mountain Bike Tyres | Cycle Tyres | Maxxis Tyres UK
All of these tyres in dula compound will be faster rolling than your DHFs
But look at the treads and decide what you most need/want.
at one end of the spectrum you have the Pace, from the tread patern it's plain to see it'll roll fast and corner well on roads but it's not going to work well in damp wet off road mud
at the other end of the spectrum you have tyres that are more all rounderers with a low but open tread paterns and a decent cornering edge like the Ardent and Aspen
I'd put the crossmark/larsen in the middle ground with the crossmark having better wet/mud characteristics
The minion SS is a great cornering tyre all conditions (due to the DHF side knobs) but rolls eficiently in a straight line and grips well everywhere except steep peanut butter mud/wet grass. (it'll still hook up leant over in those conditions though).
One other thing to think about is your rear tyre creates most drag so running something super fast rear and something with a little more grip (tread not compound) up front can be a good combination.
a hardpack tyre is designed to roll faster and grip well in dry conditions but often isn't designed to clear/shed mud or dig into soft conditions
Mountain Bike Tyres | Cycle Tyres | Maxxis Tyres UK
All of these tyres in dula compound will be faster rolling than your DHFs
But look at the treads and decide what you most need/want.
at one end of the spectrum you have the Pace, from the tread patern it's plain to see it'll roll fast and corner well on roads but it's not going to work well in damp wet off road mud
at the other end of the spectrum you have tyres that are more all rounderers with a low but open tread paterns and a decent cornering edge like the Ardent and Aspen
I'd put the crossmark/larsen in the middle ground with the crossmark having better wet/mud characteristics
The minion SS is a great cornering tyre all conditions (due to the DHF side knobs) but rolls eficiently in a straight line and grips well everywhere except steep peanut butter mud/wet grass. (it'll still hook up leant over in those conditions though).
One other thing to think about is your rear tyre creates most drag so running something super fast rear and something with a little more grip (tread not compound) up front can be a good combination.
The 3C DHFs you currently have are draggy as hell and the drag will be worse on the rear (even though they are the exact same tyre)
Change both, but you can go for a faster rolling rear and a slightly grippier tread (not compound) on the front.
If you still wanted the imense grip of the front 3C but wanted a faster bike, pairing it with a dual comp Minion SS would work well.
If your bike shop don't understand this find a better bike shop
Change both, but you can go for a faster rolling rear and a slightly grippier tread (not compound) on the front.
If you still wanted the imense grip of the front 3C but wanted a faster bike, pairing it with a dual comp Minion SS would work well.
If your bike shop don't understand this find a better bike shop
Thewootts
Member
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