sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
that’s not i-track, that’s how Kavenz went around the patent
Article Video: Teewing Flux 180mm, high-pivot, Avinox EMTB first look and ride
- Thread starter B Rabbit
- Start date
Is Kavenz one of the Italian engineers/designers of the Flux?
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
Kavenz | We Make You Faster
kavenz.com
Plummet
Flash Git
The design purpose i can see is to allow for a smaller suspension lug, Create more wheel space and also allow room for the seat stay bridge (if it has one) running through the suspension travel range.
Its not just chinese bikes. Its pretty my every bike with that style of suspension pivot location.
Plummet
Flash Git
The real question that i had to ask myself was when all other specs lined up for my dream bike other than 180/210 dropper. Do I take the dream bike in every other aspect with shorter dropper spec or a worse bike for me with longer dropper insertion. I chose the dream bike and am not regretting that decision.
My personal limit was 180mm. if i could only run a 150 dropper then that would have been a deal breaker.
Like you, i do all the things you list, plus i'll add enduro racing and steel slow tech. All of them can be achieved without compromise once you recalibrate to the 180 dropper height.
slickrock
Well-known member
As in getting around the patent in that the idler and swingarm pivot share the same axle? This from Kavenz:
slickrock
Well-known member
Doppelganger: Norco VLT, which is licensed i-TrackLooks to be centered on the swing arm main pivot from this angle.
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Not really. Plenty of similar designs that still manage a straight seat tube.
Designer just needs to spend more time designing.
TheKaiser
Active member
Thanks, yeah, after I made that post I went back and caught up on the earlier parts of this thread and saw people had already discussed that exact matter! With the existing pics, it is really tough to tell what is going on there, but it could very well be similar to the Norco setup. With some Chinese brands that mostly sell domestically, I wouldn't put it below them to just slap an i-Track label on to seem more legit, regardless of if they're paying for the patent or if the patent even applies to the design, but Teewing seems like they're pretty serious about making a real go of it in the international market...which means it's most likely a Norco ripoff. I know some people will hate on them for that, but the Norco designs are pretty dialed, so I can't really blame them for taking a lot of "inspiration" from a market leader. I actually wouldn't have minded if they took a little more inspiration from Norco in regard to that seat tube kink/insertion depth that everyone else is discussing! The Norco still has a big advantage in that regard.
Plummet
Flash Git
Here's another one too.
Obviously possible. But they make for a bland looking bike.
Whether we like lt or not form over function typically rules supreme in the mtb industry.
But aren't they compensating for the shorter suspension link, by running a bigger shock ? The bent post makes room for the longer suspension link. Thus allowing for a shorter shock without reducing travel?
Look att Orbea wild, Rocky Mountain Instinct, Santa Cruz Vala / Bullit among others. There is plenty of bikes with straight Seat tube's. That takes a long dropper.
Plummet
Flash Git
Look closely and you see the straight seat tube crowd using different pivot locations. The top pivot location drives the seat tube design to a degree. Then esthetic design comes into play.. Do they run a big ugly lug like the marida or bend for a more pleasing visual look?
Like it or not looks sells bikes and form over function reigns supreme in the mtb world.
I think straight, uninterrupted seat tubes look way cleaner.
- Thread starter
- #199
I reckon they could of got a straight seat tube in their design but i'm guessing that kinked seat tube is in their design language, for better or for worse.
And re the i-track question, this is a quote from @iamandisykes post 'The first thing that grabs your attention is the patented i-Track high-pivot idler suspension layout. High-pivot bikes aren’t new, but Teewing’s execution definitely stands out."
And re the i-track question, this is a quote from @iamandisykes post 'The first thing that grabs your attention is the patented i-Track high-pivot idler suspension layout. High-pivot bikes aren’t new, but Teewing’s execution definitely stands out."
Plummet
Flash Git
The amount of people that are form over function on this forum astounds me. Take the number of people flocking to dji bikes, many are because of the thinner downtube the long skinny battery allows for and not the additional power output. The long skinny battery makes for worse weight distribution but a better looking bike.....Only for people how care more about looking good at the car park then how the bike rides
They simply dont care that the bike handles worse.... it looks cooler.
The was a while back there l once had a total blast ripping a Sant cruz super 8 and new nothing about the tech only a couple mtb mags giving to some gear and ride report.... some fork shock set up tyre pressure and enjoyed the bike.... felt in part adapting to the bike, that alone improve my ability....
Thanks B Rabbit.... this now explains why l have unexplained urgency for cans of Kombucha soothing the nauseousness before each ride.... Still a am looking for a new rig....
Kombucha
Thanks B Rabbit.... this now explains why l have unexplained urgency for cans of Kombucha soothing the nauseousness before each ride.... Still a am looking for a new rig....
Kombucha
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slickrock
Well-known member
AFAIK, Teewing has not released kinematic graphs, so this video is a good proxy. What's not exactly clear from the video was if the graphs were being expressed while in 170mm flip chip config. The wheels look mixed but as mentioned before running MX with 170mm may be preferable, and I think the vidcaster agrees. And the free-body looks like he tried to model with the shorter CS, but he did didn't demonstrate it in 180mm mode [Edit: backing off this claim since I haven't used the software, and he may have been modeling something else.]. I suspect the 180mm mode will produce exaggerated kinematics, but really these graphs should come from Teewing. I took the liberty to snapshot a few the kinematics graphs here below:
Axle path
Leverage ratio: progressive and assumed to be in progressive mode
Anti Squat and Rise without sag: was a challenge to get this snap since most of the video was describing these under sag. It was need to see how dynamics of travel and chain ring can change AS.
Pedal kickback: Should only be compared to other bikes with similar sprocket sizes and to a lesser degree chainring sizes. Very interesting demonstration regarding how the idler really knocks this back in the smaller chainring sizes.
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You can run the 600wh battery if you want less weight, and a lower centre of gravity, and the 800wh when you just care about range.
People are flocking to the Avinox Bikes because of their performance, as well as their aesthetics. It goes hand in hand.
And having cleaner lines impacts performance. Look at the Unno Mith. It's lines are all over the place. The toptube line doesn't align with the seatstay. The chainstay lines don't align with anything, unlike the Santa Cruz Bullit pictured above, which has the seatstay and toptube aligned and the chainstay line moving through the BB with a straight section after the BB, before the sweep up for the downtube.
Sure this is clean. But it not the best performance to keep everything in clean straight lines.
All reports so far on the Teewing Flux, is it's one of the best handling Enduro builds they have experienced. It runs Avinox. It's lines are all over the place as well, especially with the high pivot. But it rides amazingly.
There's a difference between a bike that just looks like a fat mack truck, and one that just looks agressive. I think the Mith and the Flux dirtier lines, makes them look like super aggressive. Meanwhile. EMTBs like that Kado above, look like the fat chick at the dance, that no one will dance with.
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then you try the Kado on the trails and you discover that this fat chick is one of the best dancer you can find….
I tried it 2 weeks ago and i was totally impressed how easy and balanced is this bike….it’s aesthetically horrible, no way….but i think I have never tried an ebike so comfortable and easy to ride…
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I sure it rides ok. But that downtube and BB area is so non bicycle looking. It just a step too far. I don't think it's too much to want EMTBs to remain looking like MTBs, rather than Motor Cross Bikes with a dropper.
Fashion before Function - whatever floats your boat Astro
I agree, we all want ebikes that look great and handle like a normal mtb….
I hope this goal will be achieve with solid-state batteries that will arrive maybe in 3 or 4 years….until this step, we have to accept compromises: if you prefer the aesthetic side you have to deal with a bike probably without the best balance you can find
Totally agree. My bike will spend a much higher percentage of time in the lounge being looked at vs being ridden over its lifetime.I'm not ashamed to say im in the aesthetic camp and would probably only consider a DJI bike at this point. If I'm spending $10k AUD+ on a bike I dont want to vomit when I look at it
I will happily accept any barely perceivable handling disadvantages over having to look at a bloated gen5 800wh bike or even worse, a levo gen4
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