Rail (625Wh) Trek Rail warranty frame does not fit my Fox X2.

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GlassKnee

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Hi Guys,

My frame cracked weeks ago and was able to receive a warranty frame. I got a Large Trek Rail 7 btw. The LBS transferred all my components to the new frame but for some reason my Fox X2 which used to fit with plenty of space from the frame is suddenly hitting the new frame and there is not enough clearance anymore.

I returned it to my LBS (Evocycles NZ) and they tried to find what’s happening with the new frame and they said the issue is with the frame and they will be happy to just attached my stock shock (Not Fox X2) as that fits with no issue and there is a big chance Trek will not send a new frame. Basically just move on and accept it.

That does not make sense to me as the new frame should have the same measurements and should have the same clearance. I few millimetre closer but still with clearance would be fine with me but this thing has no clearance at all and I’m getting the impression that they just want me to accept that. I didn’t agree with it so they will contact Trek again.

Has anyone experienced this as well? And anyone from Trek in this forum that I can reach out to?

Picture for reference, New frame on the left and Old frame on the right. Notice the clearance.
48E74A08-1CFD-4D90-8582-ABB0784BFD2F.jpeg
 
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Not an ideal situation @GlassKnee and I'd be pretty unhappy if I were in your place, but as @JP-NZ says the difference is in the rocker...if evo can't or won't give you the rocker from your original frame it should be possible to source one as a spare part, obviously an unwelcome extra expense but if you really want to run the X2....
 
Different, longer, shock. Aircan sticker in not the same.
Lbs has probably accidentally mixed someone elses shock there.

OR

The picture on the left is taken with a potato/zoomed in so much the sticker craphics blend to an even gray mess. Which then would mean there is a slight variance in manufacturing tolerances and the seat tube location is Off by few mm.

If the shock just slightly kisses the seat tube when fully extended, i would not give a damn, but if it touches properly and extend after touching and starts bending, then it will not probably last long.

You can figure out how much it can touch by taking the shock and trying to bend it and then you see how much play there is in the shock bushings by default (seals keep it centered)
 
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I hope you get it sorted but i can see Trek saying that you have a non standard shock and its your problem for fitting it,
Harsh but i would bet thats the way this will go.
 
Only going by the pictures, but on the "new frame" picture the shock appears to be extended further than the "old frame" image.

As the shock is connected to a pivot/linkage, then the more extended the shock, the closer the shock will move to the frame.
 
Hey Guys,

Quick update, Evocycles(NZ) tried to replace the rocker with the old frame and still same results.

Rear shock is still 230x57.5. Same rear shock in my old frame and was not swapped with someone else’s shock.

Hits the frame in high or low setting. This does not make sense as it restricts me with the rear shock they provided while everyone with a large trail will be able to change theirs.
 
GlassKnee said:
Hey Guys,

Quick update, Evocycles(NZ) tried to replace the rocker with the old frame and still same results.

Rear shock is still 230x57.5. Same rear shock in my old frame and was not swapped with someone else’s shock.

Hits the frame in high or low setting. This does not make sense as it restricts me with the rear shock they provided while everyone with a large trail will be able to change t
Click to expand...

GlassKnee said:
My frame cracked weeks ago and was able to receive a warranty frame.
Click to expand...
Where did the frame crack ?
 
Quote :

Yes, that travel is about right. The leverage ratio drops to 2.4 at the end of stroke, but that 5 mm * 2.4 is still 12mm so 162 might be the actual.
I fitted an öhlins ttx1 with 65 mm on mine with no problems.

NOTE that you cannot run the mino link at low with that 5 mm extra stroke as the rear frame then hits the seatpost.

www.emtbforums.com

Rail (625Wh) - Fox x2 on 2022 Trek rail 5 (large)

Hi all, I've had a search on here but I'm struggling to find out how to fit an X2 on a 2022 (large)Trek Rail 5. I called TF tuned but didn't get anywhere in the conversation when asking what hardware kit to buy. It's quite confusing as the website says this is a trunnion fitment despite the...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com
 
Such a weird issue, mind you Trek couldn’t explain why my chainring ate through 2 chainstays.
 
Zimmerframe said:
Where did the frame crack ?
Click to expand...
same as the others in that Cracked Rail Frame thread, down tube near the rear shock as well.

Bomble said:
Such a weird issue, mind you Trek couldn’t explain why my chainring ate through 2 chainstays.
Click to expand...
I know right? I can’t really wrap my head around it as I’ve seen 2022 trek rail models using a fox x2 with no issues at all.

I wonder if @Mitch@Trek can provide an insight to this. Is it normal for Trek to send out warranty frames that have different measurements? or is this a rare occurence?
 
GlassKnee said:
Hey Guys,

Quick update, Evocycles(NZ) tried to replace the rocker with the old frame and still same results.

Rear shock is still 230x57.5. Same rear shock in my old frame and was not swapped with someone else’s shock.

Hits the frame in high or low setting. This does not make sense as it restricts me with the rear shock they provided while everyone with a large trail will be able to change theirs.
Click to expand...
One offset bushing would do the trick. It wont slacken or steepen angles but if you set it thin side out it will pull the shock away. Probably best to put it in the bottom shock eyelet. That would lessen the ramp up a tiny bit but that fits with how youd set an air shock more than coil. Minor movement so i wouldnt hesitate to put it in the top eyelet eithrr if that was easier
 
GlassKnee said:
Hi Guys,

My frame cracked weeks ago and was able to receive a warranty frame. I got a Large Trek Rail 7 btw. The LBS transferred all my components to the new frame but for some reason my Fox X2 which used to fit with plenty of space from the frame is suddenly hitting the new frame and there is not enough clearance anymore.

I returned it to my LBS (Evocycles NZ) and they tried to find what’s happening with the new frame and they said the issue is with the frame and they will be happy to just attached my stock shock (Not Fox X2) as that fits with no issue and there is a big chance Trek will not send a new frame. Basically just move on and accept it.

That does not make sense to me as the new frame should have the same measurements and should have the same clearance. I few millimetre closer but still with clearance would be fine with me but this thing has no clearance at all and I’m getting the impression that they just want me to accept that. I didn’t agree with it so they will contact Trek again.

Has anyone experienced this as well? And anyone from Trek in this forum that I can reach out to?

Picture for reference, New frame on the left and Old frame on the right. Notice the clearance.
View attachment 100223
Click to expand...
It might just be my eyes playing tricks on me but it looks like that area near the shock can is beefier than than the old one. Maybe they beefed up that area in the newer frames since that’s where they’re all cracking.
 
@GlassKnee have you checked if the mino link configuration is the same across both bikes? It could have been in the high position on your old bike and now the new frame is in the stock, low postion?
 
They have made changes in the geometrie. Seat tube have a slightly diffrent angel. Messure the frames and see.
Its a produktion tollerance change.. But anyhow, your clearens with the old frame is not enought eider.
And X2 is not realy meant to be on an E bike. Also I guess you retuned the damper buildup as the link ratio does not match with any of the stock X2 tunes.
Go for a flot X E prepared or a rockshox
 
Fat Rat said:
Hi
the flip chip wouldnt alter the shock position it only alters the rear end geo.
Click to expand...

This is wrong, it moves the shock position. You can see it clearly in this vid (1:56 in)


Shock body is closer to the seat tube in high setting
 
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yorkshire89 said:
This is wrong, it moves the shock position. You can see it clearly in this vid (1:56 in)


Shock body is closer to the seat tube in high setting
Click to expand...
No it doesn't
It alters the rear end
The point from the suspension linkage center pivot point to top shock pivot doesn't alter at all with the flip chip
All the flip chip does is lengthen and shorten the top stays between the center pivot on the linkage and rear axle no more no less this does not and will not alter the shock position in relation to the seat tube.
 
Fat Rat said:
No it doesn't
It alters the rear end
The point from the suspension linkage center pivot point to top shock pivot doesn't alter at all with the flip chip
All the flip chip does is lengthen and shorten the top stays between the center pivot on the linkage and rear axle no more no less this does not and will not alter the shock position in relation to the seat tube.
Click to expand...

Changing the mino link has an effect on the head angle, seat tube angle, reach. Rob also mentioned it gives about 5mm more rear wheel travel. Pretty sure that is going to change the linkage position slightly.

It is absolutely worth at least testing this to see if the different position changes the shock clearance.
 
Oupy said:
Changing the mino link has an effect on the head angle, seat tube angle, reach. Rob also mentioned it gives about 5mm more rear wheel travel. Pretty sure that is going to change the linkage position slightly.

It is absolutely worth at least testing this to see if the different position changes the shock clearance.
Click to expand...
It wont ive explained above why
There's no mechanical difference in that area
forget about geo change

If people can't see that I'm out as I've explained why it won't change anything in relation to clearance for the shock and seat tube.
As an addition if the flip chip was Shock end as on some bikes this may have an effect on the problem in hand but the rail isn't adjusted there
There is NO mechanical alteration that's going to happen on a rail to make this problem go away with the flip chip.

Moderator Note : Several posts in this thread have been moved from another thread as the OP parallel posted the same problem in two places. Therefore, not all the responses will seem to read in the correct sequence and not all responses will of had the benefit of the information provided in this thread.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's the analysis from AndreXTR on the Rail, including running in the High mode on the flip chip:

"On higher mode, you lift the rear end of the bike by basically creating and adding more ~9-10mm of wheel travel at the beginning (when compared with the 0mm position of the low setting). So, on the high setting if you compress the rear suspension by 9-10mm you end up with the same geometry of a fully extended low-setting bike. Its seems that the overall travel also increases by around 5-6mm on the high setting (so you end up with around 155 mm with standard shock)."
 
Oupy said:
Changing the mino link has an effect on the head angle, seat tube angle, reach. Rob also mentioned it gives about 5mm more rear wheel travel. Pretty sure that is going to change the linkage position slightly.

It is absolutely worth at least testing this to see if the different position changes the shock clearance.
Click to expand...

If you would back read you will see that I already mentioned that Low or High setting does not help with the clearance and still hitting the frame.

Trek told me every batch of frame has a few millimeters of difference and in this instance it does not fit the X2. Tough luck I know and I have already sold the bike as it is a surplus to my need after I bought the Trek Fuel EX-e.
 
Oupy said:
Changing the mino link has an effect on the head angle, seat tube angle, reach. Rob also mentioned it gives about 5mm more rear wheel travel. Pretty sure that is going to change the linkage position slightly.

It is absolutely worth at least testing this to see if the different position changes the shock clearance.
Click to expand...
No. Just no. Think about it. The shock has a certain maximum and minimum length. That doesn't change. The linkage has a fixed distance between the main pivot and shock mount, which also doesn't change. Therefore, the relationship between shock and linkage doesn't change with the flip chip.

All the flip chip alters is the effective length of the seat stays, which amongst other things raises the rear of the bike slightly, resulting in the angle changes you mention.
 
Growmac said:
No. Just no. Think about it. The shock has a certain maximum and minimum length. That doesn't change. The linkage has a fixed distance between the main pivot and shock mount, which also doesn't change. Therefore, the relationship between shock and linkage doesn't change with the flip chip.

All the flip chip alters is the effective length of the seat stays, which amongst other things raises the rear of the bike slightly, resulting in the angle changes you mention.
Click to expand...
I've already tried to explain above your post #21 and #23 (y)
 
That linkage is DEFINITELY at a different angle and orientation in those two pictures. Figure that out, and you have your solution.
 
Fat Rat said:
I've already tried to explain above your post #21 and #23 (y)
Click to expand...
You have. I thought it was very clear, but apparently not so I had a go. It still appears that neither of us has convinced everyone 🤦‍♂️.
RickBullotta said:
That linkage is DEFINITELY at a different angle and orientation in those two pictures. Figure that out, and you have your solution.
Click to expand...
It's not though is it?
 
Fat Rat said:
No it doesn't
It alters the rear end
The point from the suspension linkage center pivot point to top shock pivot doesn't alter at all with the flip chip
All the flip chip does is lengthen and shorten the top stays between the center pivot on the linkage and rear axle no more no less this does not and will not alter the shock position in relation to the seat tube.
Click to expand...

Again you are wrong, the bottom bracket height drops slightly in the lower mino link position.
If you are looking at the bike from the drive side - As the suspension compresses (lowering the BB) the shock rotates clockwise, pivoting from the lower mount, increasing the clearance between the shock and seat tube.

On certain bikes you have to run in the high position if you buy a shock with a larger diameter body or coil.
 
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