Levo SL Gen 1 The Reason for delay in 2023 Levo SL...(and various other discussions on lightweight bikes......)

Suns_PSD said:
Real world range test shows a much smaller difference between a FF & light e-bike that the numbers would suggest. Less drag, less weight, & a harder working rider will do that I guess.
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I did 31 miles on Sunday on my new 360 wh orbea rise ( bike) battery. I rode with a friend on a 625wh bosch gen 4 bike. I had the same bike for over two years and most of our rides ended in roughly the same battery consumption on the bosch.

After the 31 miles my battery was on 46% and his bike was on 56% , I am staggered and impressed that these mid level bikes achieve so much , yes maybe I worked a little harder and he was faster on some climbs but that's the reason I purchased a middle weight bike and its more rewarding for it.

And to think i was worried about range :)

I've been lugging around a 25kg bike for over 2 years and unfortunately where i live it doesn't warrant it (y)
 
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mak said:
I did 31 miles on Sunday on my new 360 wh orbea rise ( bike) battery. I rode with a friend on a 625wh bosch gen 4 bike. I had the same bike for over two years and most of our rides ended in roughly the same battery consumption on the bosch.

After the 31 miles my battery was on 46% and his bike was on 56% , I am staggered and impressed that these mid level bikes achieve so much , yes maybe I worked a little harder and he was faster on some climbs but that's the reason I purchased a middle weight bike and its more rewarding for it.

And to think i was worried about range :)

I've been lugging around a 25kg bike for over 2 years and unfortunately where i live it doesn't warrant it (y)
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Florida sure does not require a 25 kg bike. ;) My Levo SL rides are flat but often >15 mph average, the usual 27 mile ride uses slightly less than 5 bars so I could possibly get 60 miles from a charge.
The aluminum medium size bike is right at 40 lb with the change to 27.5" wheels and a 11-32 cassette.
 
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Suns_PSD said:
I'd also like to see Trek build a more AM/ Enduro type bike as they appear to have the best motor at this time.
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Apparently you haven’t been following along on the 2 Trek threads. From what I’ve read, I would call it anything, BUT the best motor after all the problems I’ve been reading about. If the quietest=the best, then okay, but the Gen 1 bugs are over the top.
 
Ou812 said:
They’re not selling because it’s dated, especially with the geometry. Everyone that wants one is waiting for the updated version with the more powerful motor and new geo.
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No argument that the geo is dated.But my 2020 SL with a Fox 38 upfront and a TTX22m coil at the back...its decent. Decent enuff that im happy riding it till my LBS gets the Fuel EXE in stock
 
Chicane said:
Apparently you haven’t been following along on the 2 Trek threads. From what I’ve read, I would call it anything, BUT the best motor after all the problems I’ve been reading about. If the quietest=the best, then okay, but the Gen 1 bugs are over the top.
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This was a gross exaggeration on your part.

I read the entire Mega thread.

One person (JuJu) has a problem with his TQ motor and has gotten an entirely new bike. In reality it was in the wiring or something else because 3 motor replacements made no change.

Three people had clicks, which turned out to be under torqued front chainring bolts.

And 1 guy had a fault code on a test ride that a reset cured right away. Probably just an initial start up thing.

There were more documented Spesh & Forestal failures in the Trek thread, then Trek failures.

The fact that the HP motor is hidden and silent is very important to me. Although I ride bandit trails that are very rough and have little to no traffic usually, e-bikes are in fact illegal here. Furthermore a completely natural power delivery sweetens the deal.

I don't care about riding with others, sometimes I do, most of the time I don't. I'm not buying a bike for their needs.

I'd buy the Trek exe right now if it were an enduro rig instead of a trail rig,
 
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KnollyBro said:
What an excellent example of a hyperbole! We consider the motor sound to both a built in bear alarm and it also encourages other slower riders to move off the climbing trails (or pedal faster) when we come up behind them :D
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THAT is the one occasion for when I am glad I have it :- D But our brown bears over here are getting somewhat used to noise unfortunately...
 
Any nerdy skis/snowboard enthusiasts, who reads those multi-page BlisterReview essays :- ) ?
If so, that's imho where e-biking is heading. Not Full-Fat vs SL. But full-range of everything inbetween to fit everyone's wishes. For the money asked.. it really should.

In skis today, you can choose from billion of models. You can have any combination of width, geometry, composition, dampness, etc.. Because everyone has their own riding preference.

Someone already alluded to the weight difference being very peculiar. Both FF Turbo Levo and KenevoSL can reach 21KG, whereas one can go as low as 17 and other as high as 25, but ride widely different in all those respective combinations. No wrong setup.

Imho that's great thing. For me, Kenevo SL is the type of bike I dreamed up long before it came to existence. I was reading about the cheating cyclocross guy who was caught with tiny motor hidden in seat tube :- D. And I thought to myself... that's just what I want damn it ! Just bit of push. Puff.. few years later the bike comes out of nowhere and it's like it's been tailored. I would be content riding this bike forever.

That said, reason I avoided FF was that I found it to be "too fun" ! And waaay too addicting ;- ).
 
George_yt said:
Any nerdy skis/snowboard enthusiasts, who reads those multi-page BlisterReview essays :- ) ?
If so, that's imho where e-biking is heading. Not Full-Fat vs SL. But full-range of everything inbetween to fit everyone's wishes. For the money asked.. it really should.

In skis today, you can choose from billion of models. You can have any combination of width, geometry, composition, dampness, etc.. Because everyone has their own riding preference.

Someone already alluded to the weight difference being very peculiar. Both FF Turbo Levo and KenevoSL can reach 21KG, whereas one can go as low as 17 and other as high as 25, but ride widely different in all those respective combinations. No wrong setup.

Imho that's great thing. For me, Kenevo SL is the type of bike I dreamed up long before it came to existence. I was reading about the cheating cyclocross guy who was caught with tiny motor hidden in seat tube :- D. And I thought to myself... that's just what I want damn it ! Just bit of push. Puff.. few years later the bike comes out of nowhere and it's like it's been tailored. I would be content riding this bike forever.

That said, reason I avoided FF was that I found it to be "too fun" ! And waaay too addicting ;- ).
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Well Ebikes are no different to normal mountain bikes. You can go from 9 odd kg XC hardtails to 18+kg down hill bikes and it's not just weight, it's the suspension travel and geometry etc etc.
Everyone will have a different preference, so there's no right and wrong choice, just what suits you best.
A lightweight Ebike will more likely get the long standing mountain biker (like myself) over the line to choose an assisted bike.
 
Exactly! Which is so odd the discussion focused so much on pure motor/battery in first place. If anything, the existence of SL bikes brought the discussion further.
Btw, the LSL Comp Carbon is discounted down further to 4.5k Euro.. in few shops. I'll post link when I'll get home. Seems the new one is imminent.
 
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Finally some real writings, these latest ones.
There is not just one way or need. People have such different ways of using those bikes.

Some of the comments here were quite offensive. For a surprisingly long time, this forum has survived them.
 
George_yt said:
Btw, the LSL Comp Carbon is discounted down further to 4.5k Euro.. in few shops. I'll post link when I'll get home. Seems the new one is imminent.
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Where? I can't see any discounts in Slovakia. Everything is still full price here.
 
Suns_PSD said:
Anyways, back to the '23 Levo SL, I'm super interested to see it and possibly buy it as I love my SJ Evo. That said the motor seems unreliable & loud so if uses the same motor I'd probably pass on this one.
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Thats not true. owner of 2 levo FF and currently on a SL. the Levo FF motors are unreliable as hell, personally went tru 2 motor warranties and 1 battery. all 5 of my group which got FF levo back in 2018 has had their motor warrantied.

The SL on the other hand.... flawless motor. in 2 years, out of all the SL my LBS has sold, not a single warranty yet...vs FF levo (its almost a weekly thing, every week another FF levo will be in for warrranty)
 
Dax said:
FF means ‘Full Fat’, which is a reference to the types of milk we get in the uk, skim, semi-skim and full fat. Also used to refer to the full size Range Rover (the vogue) to distinguish it from the plethora of smaller Range Rover models.
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Full Fat can also be used to describe visiting American's, to the UK. Something to aspire to I suppose. For instance in a sentence you could say "Those 2 full fats need 2 full fats to make it up that mild grade.

PS. I'm American so pretty sure I'm allowed to make this joke.
 
Two rides with my brother this weekend. He was on a rented Norco Sight VLT (FF, ~58lbs, Simano EP8 w/540wh battery) and me on my '19 SL Expert. Second ride was 23.6 miles with 3400ft elevation gain. He mostly rode in 'Trail' or 'Eco' to ride together. On climbs when he switched into 'boost' mode he would just pull away from me and no amount of my effort was going to keep up with him. We got back to the start and I was at 12% battery; he still had over 50% battery left.
 
Suns_PSD said:
Full Fat can also be used to describe visiting American's, to the UK. Something to aspire to I suppose. For instance in a sentence you could say "Those 2 full fats need 2 full fats to make it up that mild grade.

PS. I'm American so pretty sure I'm allowed to make this joke.
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After living in the UK for as long as I have I’ve realized there’s just as many full fats here as there is in the US.
 
jimslade said:
Two rides with my brother this weekend. He was on a rented Norco Sight VLT (FF, ~58lbs, Simano EP8 w/540wh battery) and me on my '19 SL Expert. Second ride was 23.6 miles with 3400ft elevation gain. He mostly rode in 'Trail' or 'Eco' to ride together. On climbs when he switched into 'boost' mode he would just pull away from me and no amount of my effort was going to keep up with him. We got back to the start and I was at 12% battery; he still had over 50% battery left.
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It looks like you both used about 270 wh (makes sense since you rode the same trail). How many more wh did he use than you when he went to pick up the 20 lb heavier bike and put it on the rack? ;)
 
jwrx said:
The SL on the other hand.... flawless motor. in 2 years, out of all the SL my LBS has sold, not a single warranty yet...vs FF levo (its almost a weekly thing, every week another FF levo will be in for warrranty)
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I’m on my third SL motor..

Specialized actually stated to me that the FF and SL motors where on par with each other in relation to reliability. They must have sold a million FF bikes:D
 
You can break every motor that you play, but even if you were an expert your opinion/experience weights very low in statistic (and medicine) to be clear the personal opinion is the green zone of this pyramid

1663648522698.jpeg
 
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chamaruco said:
You can break every motor that you play, but even if you were an expert your opinion/experience weights very low in statistic (and medicine) to be clear the personal opinion is the green zone of this pyramid

View attachment 97621
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A Cohort study of levo SL owners has proven they are no more specialized than their brose.

We're 2.5 years into the specialized warranty phase 2 trial - third motor for me, and definitely loving specialized warranty
 
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Interesting to hear of the SL failures on this thread as to date haven't seen that many reported on the forum, compared tot he Brose - I had always assumed it was one of the most reliable motors, but maybe just on a par with all the rest.
 
R120 said:
Interesting to hear of the SL failures on this thread as to date haven't seen that many reported on the forum, compared tot he Brose - I had always assumed it was one of the most reliable motors, but maybe just on a par with all the rest.
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There have always been and always will be failures reported. Though, proportionally, the Mahle has always seemed considerably more reliable than the Brose Mag S.
 
jwrx said:
Thats not true. owner of 2 levo FF and currently on a SL. the Levo FF motors are unreliable as hell, personally went tru 2 motor warranties and 1 battery. all 5 of my group which got FF levo back in 2018 has had their motor warrantied.

The SL on the other hand.... flawless motor. in 2 years, out of all the SL my LBS has sold, not a single warranty yet...vs FF levo (its almost a weekly thing, every week another FF levo will be in for warrranty)
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Same experience for me, my FF had multiple motor issues, while my SL had not any so far.
Also when you look at forums motor failure topics seem more frequent on FF threads than SL ones (proportionally speaking of course).

Let's not forget SL is a more recent motor than the Brose one even though he has been updated a bit. Don't we say we learn from mistakes? ;)
 
Suns_PSD said:
Full Fat can also be used to describe visiting American's, to the UK. Something to aspire to I suppose. For instance in a sentence you could say "Those 2 full fats need 2 full fats to make it up that mild grade.

PS. I'm American so pretty sure I'm allowed to make this joke.
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So we are fat shaming cars, bikes, and people…I’m ok with that. But once you start fat shaming milk, well, thats just devolving this conversation to a whole new level.

BTW, when is the 2023 coming out?
 
Milk is the exception to the rule; more is definitely better, can’t beat a bit of Gold Top on cereal.
 
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