Shimano EP8 Cranks

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
I'm having real problems with pedal strikes due to the extremely low Orbea Rise BB height. As a result I've pumped up the rear shock hard and even tried turning it off but still struggle with strikes. This isn't a problem I've had to this extent when riding previous bikes.
I want to replace the 170mm cranks with 155mm or 160mm cranks but my local bike shop tells me that these will not be available until early 2024.
I can't find anything an t'internet. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
 

mikegarf

New Member
May 2, 2023
9
1
Manchester
Just a thought. Have you got you flip chip thingy on the frame set to high or low?
Also, I would have thought that you would be able to get some compatible shorter cranks from a reputable online supplier if your LBS can't help.
Cheers.
Mike.
 

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
Just a thought. Have you got you flip chip thingy on the frame set to high or low?
Also, I would have thought that you would be able to get some compatible shorter cranks from a reputable online supplier if your LBS can't help.
Cheers.
Mike.
Unfortunately the Rise doesn't have a flip chip.
Miranda and Hope make EP8 compatible cranks but I can't find anything less than 165mm. I don't think that the extra 5mm clearance would be sufficient. Thanks for your suggestions.
 

Shjay

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2019
835
488
Kent
If it’s the M20 or H30 then the fork is only 140mm travel giving a bb height of 336mm if you can extend the fork to 150mm that would rise the bb to 342 approx
 

RustyIron

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Jun 5, 2021
1,510
2,390
La Habra, California
I've pumped up the rear shock hard and even tried turning it off but still struggle with strikes.

My goal when adjusting suspension is to provide the best handling, and nothing else. You might want to rethink pumping up your suspension too stiff or over damping it. Why to so many forum members have such an aversion to pedal strikes? It's a mountain bike. There are boulders, logs, ruts, and rocks. If you choose to ride the rough stuff, it's inevitable that your hardware is going to get banged up.

I just walked down to the garage to see if my bike had any pedal strikes. Attached below is a picture. Sorry for the dirt, but I just got back from a ride and haven't had the opportunity to clean it up yet.

IMG_0827.jpeg
 

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
If it’s the M20 or H30 then the fork is only 140mm travel giving a bb height of 336mm if you can extend the fork to 150mm that would rise the bb to 342 approx
Thanks for that suggestion - I hadn't realised that was possible.
 

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
My goal when adjusting suspension is to provide the best handling, and nothing else. You might want to rethink pumping up your suspension too stiff or over damping it. Why to so many forum members have such an aversion to pedal strikes? It's a mountain bike. There are boulders, logs, ruts, and rocks. If you choose to ride the rough stuff, it's inevitable that your hardware is going to get banged up.

I just walked down to the garage to see if my bike had any pedal strikes. Attached below is a picture. Sorry for the dirt, but I just got back from a ride and haven't had the opportunity to clean it up yet.

View attachment 113799
I completely agree with you. The problem with the Rise M20 is that the BB height is excessively low, possibly because it has a 140mm fork - most bikes in the M range have 150mm forks. The bike therefore becomes unrideable because you only have to lean the bike over slightly when pedalling to come into contact with the ground, let alone boulders etc. No amount of modification of my technique (such as it is) seems to compensate for the lack of BB height.
 

Shjay

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2019
835
488
Kent
I completely agree with you. The problem with the Rise M20 is that the BB height is excessively low, possibly because it has a 140mm fork - most bikes in the M range have 150mm forks. The bike therefore becomes unrideable because you only have to lean the bike over slightly when pedalling to come into contact with the ground, let alone boulders etc. No amount of modification of my technique (such as it is) seems to compensate for the lack of BB height.
The BB height is low for an ebike but not for normal bike. My Ripley V4 had 336mm bb would get pedal strikes but was about timing, issue with e-bikes is we pedal everywhere! I do however run my M20 at 160mm travel so generally no issues
 

LeeS69

Member
Aug 27, 2022
94
104
Yorkshire
Miranda do a 155mm apparently, link below

I seem to get more pedal strikes than I'm used to, a mate has a non E Orbea and was complaining about that too. Doesn't particularly bother me that much but it is noticeable!

Oddly my last bike (hardtail though) had a BB height of only 312mm but I don't recall any strikes. I guess with the sag, the wheelbase and the suspension in reality it could end up much lower, my even older RZ120 was 330 and didn't do it that I particularly recall!

 

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
Miranda do a 155mm apparently, link below

I seem to get more pedal strikes than I'm used to, a mate has a non E Orbea and was complaining about that too. Doesn't particularly bother me that much but it is noticeable!

Oddly my last bike (hardtail though) had a BB height of only 312mm but I don't recall any strikes. I guess with the sag, the wheelbase and the suspension in reality it could end up much lower, my even older RZ120 was 330 and didn't do it that I particularly recall!

Thanks Lee that's very useful. I'll take a look at the Mirandas
 

theremotejuggernaut

Active member
Aug 2, 2022
297
224
UK
XTs from Germany And they're cheap!

I've got some. Not from there though.

They cut pedal strikes down to a few per ride rather than every 5 seconds like the original 170s

EDIT....

There's a £175 minimum order for shipping to the UK so probably not all that helpful unless you want more than just cranks...
 

gsum

Member
Jul 31, 2021
37
12
Lake District
I've just ordered the 155 mm Miranda cranks. They approximately the same price as the XTs when the higher postage costs from Portugal to the UK are taken into account.
 

Interpaul

Active member
Jun 18, 2018
124
116
Edinburgh
I have the 155 Miranda Cranks on my Rise now - arrived in 3 days. Can't fault them and they are my third set from Miranda as used them on other bikes,. Cheap and work well :)

Really like the 155 length - not had a single pedal strike.
 

Singletrackmind

Active member
Sep 17, 2020
465
421
San Diego, CA
I ride 160mm cranks on all my emtbs and have seen a lot less pedal strikes then I did with the 165/170 stock cranks. Ethirteen and 5Dev make cranks for various emtb motors. Some people have had issues with E13's on Shimano motors, but I've had absolutely none. Followed the revised torque procedure.
 

LeeS69

Member
Aug 27, 2022
94
104
Yorkshire
I ride 160mm cranks on all my emtbs and have seen a lot less pedal strikes then I did with the 165/170 stock cranks. Ethirteen and 5Dev make cranks for various emtb motors. Some people have had issues with E13's on Shimano motors, but I've had absolutely none. Followed the revised torque procedure.
I'm fine with crank length apart from a few crank strikes, but after the hub debacle I'm now thinking about the cranks/axle cracking issue. Was this a problem early on or is it still something I need to be checking/replacing with shimano?

Do you have a link for the definitive new fitting/torque method, I did see something about removing the spacer somewhere too I think??

I'll pop them off for a clean up, check and refit if it's a recent change (bike is a 2022)
 

Singletrackmind

Active member
Sep 17, 2020
465
421
San Diego, CA
I'm fine with crank length apart from a few crank strikes, but after the hub debacle I'm now thinking about the cranks/axle cracking issue. Was this a problem early on or is it still something I need to be checking/replacing with shimano?

Do you have a link for the definitive new fitting/torque method, I did see something about removing the spacer somewhere too I think??

I'll pop them off for a clean up, check and refit if it's a recent change (bike is a 2022)
 

mike_kelly

Well-known member
Subscriber
Aug 11, 2022
894
722
US
I'm fine with crank length apart from a few crank strikes, but after the hub debacle I'm now thinking about the cranks/axle cracking issue. Was this a problem early on or is it still something I need to be checking/replacing with shimano?

Do you have a link for the definitive new fitting/torque method, I did see something about removing the spacer somewhere too I think??

I'll pop them off for a clean up, check and refit if it's a recent change (bike is a 2022)
The subject is talked about to death in the threads here. Clear enough for me to remove everything with label 13 on my bike when I first got it. Not worth it to me to take any chance of the ring breaking, the arms falling off or the shaft breaking.
YMMV
 

LeeS69

Member
Aug 27, 2022
94
104
Yorkshire
Just as an update for people I popped the drive side off to take a look and there is no rubber seal, the cranks are marked at 14nm and the preload bolt is marked at 4nm and did have threadlock on it. So looks like they have implemented the revised fitting instructions and updated the info on the cranks from the factory - I got my bike in August 2022.
 

mike_kelly

Well-known member
Subscriber
Aug 11, 2022
894
722
US
There fundamentally two problems. Crank arms falling off and spindles breaking. In the threads about this subject you can see examples of both of these problems "after" the fix. When I compared the new shimano cranks and the old cranks it struct me that the pre-load "bolts" from Shimano are plastic and short. The original pre-load caps are long and metal. It makes me think that the original pre-load caps sticks in farther in the spindle maybe causing a stress riser that can cause the spindle to shear in certain circumstances.
 

hind-corners

Member
Subscriber
Jul 11, 2022
50
26
Europe
There fundamentally two problems. Crank arms falling off and spindles breaking. In the threads about this subject you can see examples of both of these problems "after" the fix. When I compared the new shimano cranks and the old cranks it struct me that the pre-load "bolts" from Shimano are plastic and short. The original pre-load caps are long and metal. It makes me think that the original pre-load caps sticks in farther in the spindle maybe causing a stress riser that can cause the spindle to shear in certain circumstances.
I had exactly same thoughts when I swapped my cranks. I wonder if its a combination of cranks gettin lose, slowly moving towards outside which with long bolts causes stress to spindle.
 

LeeS69

Member
Aug 27, 2022
94
104
Yorkshire
I had exactly same thoughts when I swapped my cranks. I wonder if its a combination of cranks gettin lose, slowly moving towards outside which with long bolts causes stress to spindle.
As you say that can only happen if the 2 torqued up blots loosen, and the preload loosens - it's a bit of a stretch - especially if all thread locked. In many thousands of miles I've never had a pedal of this type (2 bolt clamp) come loose.
Re the longer/shorter preload cap - having a longer one torqued correctly would only increase strength in the shaft - and the pictures I've seen were cracking round the hole not further in.

It would only increase the load if the pedal was loose, think of the stem on a carbon fork, you clamp to the insert for more support!

I suspect the issue was the rubber washer (as stated) that was preventing a proper preload at such low torque, causing movement which could always cause an issue - that could certainly load the axle.

If I find some shimanos on offer I will grab them, but I'm not going to worry about it for now....
 

hind-corners

Member
Subscriber
Jul 11, 2022
50
26
Europe
As you say that can only happen if the 2 torqued up blots loosen, and the preload loosens - it's a bit of a stretch - especially if all thread locked. In many thousands of miles I've never had a pedal of this type (2 bolt clamp) come loose.
Re the longer/shorter preload cap - having a longer one torqued correctly would only increase strength in the shaft - and the pictures I've seen were cracking round the hole not further in.

It would only increase the load if the pedal was loose, think of the stem on a carbon fork, you clamp to the insert for more support!

I suspect the issue was the rubber washer (as stated) that was preventing a proper preload at such low torque, causing movement which could always cause an issue - that could certainly load the axle.

If I find some shimanos on offer I will grab them, but I'm not going to worry about it for now....
I think the reason for cranks getting lose can be also related to aluminium type used, pinch bolt material etc. Also spindle is not the same strength across, too many factors to fully understand it. 😅
 

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