Raise pedals???

[routrax]

Read this article.

What’s the best crank length on an E-MTB?

The trail in front of you gets steeper and you don’t want to lose your momentum, so you start pedalling like a maniac. Then you hear a loud clunking noise and everything comes to an abrupt halt… the next thing you know you’re flying over the bars! What happened? Chances are you jammed your crank […]

ebike-mtb.com

This thread is a bit depressing really, along with several others on the forum at the moment, because being a good rider actually has very little to do with the equipment you have, and everything to do with skills and technique, and there are no shortcuts to achieving this - yes certain mods help improve certain situations, but riding any mtb well and dealing with issues different terrains throw up is ultimately about rider skill, and as I have said before a bit of coaching or a skills course is a far more effective remedy than chucking money at upgrades that have no benefit unless you have the abilities to make use of them.

I agree 100% with this. There's nothing wrong with spending big bucks on upgrades, but it won't make you a better rider.

 

[Rosemount]

Type in Pedal Strike MTB into the You tube search and see how many videos of people striking the pedals are posted .

 

[TheRealPoMo]

OK so technology is no sustitute for rider skill...yep, get that.
So why is this place so biased against the lower end of the market ?

Gazza - (you know I am talking to you) - you say it's all about skill and not about the technology...why do you (and many others here) think you need a full sus $12AUD bike ? If skill is all, why the Levo/Knenevo/IDontEvenKnow ?

So - "Just buy the full sus Spesh...okay....because hardtails suck...okay.....but if you get a pedal strike on your $12K bike, it's because you are crap...okay...."

It's really like a 1980's American girls locker room here ....

 

[routrax]

OK so technology is no sustitute for rider skill...yep, get that.
So why is this place so biased against the lower end of the market ?

Gazza - (you know I am talking to you) - you say it's all about skill and not about the technology...why do you (and many others here) think you need a full sus $12AUD bike ? If skill is all, why the Levo/Knenevo/IDontEvenKnow ?

So - "Just buy the full sus Spesh...okay....because hardtails suck...okay.....but if you get a pedal strike on your $12K bike, it's because you are crap...okay...."

It's really like a 1980's American girls locker room here ....

Want != need.
People like nice things, the nicer the thing, the higher the price (generally).
Rigid/hardtail/trail/enduro/downhill is just an indication of where the bike will be best suited. You (probably) don't want a downhill bike to ride to the shops on the road and you (probably) don't want a rigid to do the Megaavalanche.
Buying a £10k+ Trek will not make you Brandon Semenuk, but he could probably ride a £1000 rigid better than most people could ride a £10k+ Trek.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[R120]

OK so technology is no sustitute for rider skill...yep, get that.
So why is this place so biased against the lower end of the market ?

Gazza - (you know I am talking to you) - you say it's all about skill and not about the technology...why do you (and many others here) think you need a full sus $12AUD bike ? If skill is all, why the Levo/Knenevo/IDontEvenKnow ?

So - "Just buy the full sus Spesh...okay....because hardtails suck...okay.....but if you get a pedal strike on your $12K bike, it's because you are crap...okay...."

It's really like a 1980's American girls locker room here ....

I dont think it is - there are a lot of Specilized owners on here, and a fair few members with tope end bikes, but most of us are on pretty stock stuff. Gary like me owns a Vitus E-Sommet, UK RRP 3.5K when we bought them 2 years ago.

Like anything in life most people buy something that for exceeds their capabilities because its cool, I as much as anyone else do this, but the reality is some of the best EMTB's can be had for sub 5k now.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Like anything in life most people buy something that for exceeds their capabilities because its cool, I as much as anyone else do this, but the reality is some of the best EMTB's can be had for sub 5k now.

Like he says !

I have a Kenevo because I far exceed it's capabilities because I'm cool.

Sometimes you just have to work hard looking for the right bike for the right price. I paid £3800 new, for a Kenevo Expert last year.

To say people on here insist you have to have an FS bike is completely incorrect and taking what has been said completely out of context.

The general view , which is formed from peoples experiences, is that if you think your interest in riding and the scope of the riding you plan to do might increase, then, if you can somehow scrape the money together, it makes sense to buy an FS bike straight away. Rather than buy a HT and change to an FS bike 3 months later - which will cost you a lot more money longer term. There's lots of HT riders on here, ultimately, if you want to ride the same terrain a lot of FS people are riding on a HT you need a lot more skill, strength and fitness. An FS bike is far more forgiving if you get yourself in the doo doo. I'm far far far safer on an FS bike than the ping pong ball of death I was on a HT bike.

Equally, it can often be cheaper to buy a higher spec bike in the first place than a lower spec bike and then upgrade it - though this is not always the case.

So why is this place so biased against the lower end of the market ?

Also, untrue. On countless occasions the suggestion is made to buy a Decathlon hub motored bike or a Halfords or a whatever if that fits with someone's requirements. Ultimately though, a more expensive bike will by it's very nature be a more capable bike. People generally want a more capable bike, so unless you're lucky enough to have bagged a Decathlon Stilus, you'll probably have to spend more to get a bike with the capability you want. Be that the type of motor, size of battery, quality and capability of the suspension, type of brakes and so on.

No one is shunned or belittled for whatever brand or type of bike they have. I should know I had a hub motored Decathlon and then some pile of crap hardtail and no one ever made me feel unwelcome.

We're all in this for the same reasons - normally enjoyment.

Look at Rob who runs the forum. He can't even afford his own bike and so relies on people lending him a different bike every week just so he can go for a ride. No one looks down on him.

 

[Frankieboy]

Speaking from experience, I was having peddle strikes regularly. Having read a few threads, not this one, and taking a lead from @Gary & @R120 advice, peddle strikes are now significantly reduced. Same peddles, same cranks, different technique.

 

[Gary]

Gazza - (you know I am talking to you) - you say it's all about skill and not about the technology...why do you (and many others here) think you need a full sus $12AUD bike?

I have 10 bikes mate
Ranging from a BMX with ONE brake and 80psi tyres, through 4X/DJ hardtails, FS trail/Enduro to DH and one mid level Eeb.,
What's your point exactly?

I don't *need* a bike at all.
Although i'd probably be in a mental heath institution or prison if I didn't have at least one bike.

Also.
No one said ANYTHING is ALL about skill. Probably less than 10% of cyclists are genuinely skilled riders no matter what discipline you're talking about.

internet forums are full of less skilled riders looking for information about the latest/best products to BUY expecting them be a shortcut to improving their riding.
Truth is, if you want to become a better rider just ride your bikes more. especially normal, bikes (and costing way less than 12k whatever currency)
it really isn't rocket science.

Get stupid short cranks if you want.
I actually don't care either way.

It's really like a 1980's American girls locker room here ....

it's really not mate.
It's more like a bottleneck around the crack in the locker room partition wall with a pile of virgins trying to catch their first glimps of a pair of knickers or a bra. While most of those girls are only interested in the more confident boys already out on the sports field.

 

[RickBullotta]

Ok, here goes! I keep grounding out the pedals over tree roots, and before anyone says I need to learn to ride, yawn, I’ve had mountain bikes for over 30 years, and this has never happened on any other bike I’ve owned, despite riding the same trails.

Are there any simple fixes for this, or do I need to look at raising the suspension? I’m not heavy, at just under 12 stone, and the preload is set correctly for my weight, so I’m trying to work out a fix, as this is pissing me off.

It's not just "technique" - some eMTBs have absurdly low bottom brackets (KTM for one).

Three things work well:

- shorter cranks (160 or 165mm)
- taller axle-to-crown fork (achievable more cheaply with a fork crown race spacer or thick fork crown race vs a new fork)
- largest tires your bike can fit

A friend of mine did "all of the above" on his KTM Kapoho Macina and it make a bit difference. He used a 17mm crown race spacer.

 

[Gary]

No EMTB has even a vaguely low BB height

 

[TheRealPoMo]

It's more like a bottleneck around the crack in the locker room partition wall with a pile of virgins trying to catch their first glimps of a pair of knickers or a bra. While most of those girls are only interested in the more confident boys already out on the sports field.

Actually I like that analogy.

I've seen enough condescending remarks thrown about on various threads to stand by what I say though.

...and in an attempt to stay on thread, I'll state that my pedals and cranks are absolutely trashed and I may go to 165mm in the future as a loose pedal exiting said crank and taking the leading few threads with it has made me a little nervous about future pedal exits with the originals, given the thread damage. Loctite seems to be working though for the moment.

Cheers

 

[Rosemount]

I dont think it is - there are a lot of Specilized owners on here, and a fair few members with tope end bikes, but most of us are on pretty stock stuff. Gary like me owns a Vitus E-Sommet, UK RRP 3.5K when we bought them 2 years ago.

Like anything in life most people buy something that for exceeds their capabilities because its cool, I as much as anyone else do this, but the reality is some of the best EMTB's can be had for sub 5k now.

Vitus has also switched to 165mm crankarms to increase pedal clearance, which is a great move because the geometry on the E-Sommet is genuinely long, low and slack, and that 5mm of extra pedal clearance is welcome, especially on steep, techy climbs. [remember Nico runs 160 mm ]

Vitus E-Sommet electric mountain bike review - MBR


yeah yeah nah .
Manufacturers are aware of pedal strikes .10 time World champions are aware of pedal strikes . This thread is full of pedal strikers .

So don`t try and convince me its all about rider skill . Terrain and equipment are definitely factors .

 

[Gary]

I'm not really interested in convincing you of anything mate. You're so blinkered you struggle to comprehend basic sentences.

No one said terrain and equipment don't make a difference.
Please just stop your pointless argument.

 

[speedkills]

Vitus has also switched to 165mm crankarms to increase pedal clearance, which is a great move because the geometry on the E-Sommet is genuinely long, low and slack, and that 5mm of extra pedal clearance is welcome, especially on steep, techy climbs. [remember Nico runs 160 mm ]

Wait, so Vitus riders have lower skill than average mountain bikers? ?

I kid, I kid, there are just some haters on here, no big deal, you get used to it. You know how some people who are anti-e-bike will call them mopeds and bitch about how you should just ride more until you don't need the motor? Some of those same folks are here, and have no idea how silly they look making the same argument about how you don't need x. It's the same argument, seems to come from the same "back in my day we just ratcheted" or "if you had more experience you wouldn't need to lower your seat, skip the dropper". I mean people can bag on whatever, ignore them.

As far as I've seen, people have always run shorter cranks in rockier areas, or on DH bikes. It's a tradeoff, shorter cranks are putting less power out, but ratching constantly is also putting less power out, so find the tradeoff that works for you, and don't worry about impressing the people here with more bikes than Nico and far better bike handling skills. Just have fun. And if you have more money than time, and you have more fun next weekend with a shorter set of cranks, pedaling straight through areas you would have had to ratchet through otherwise, I say ? if the reason you are out is to have fun. If the reason you are out is to prove what a skilled rider you are and improve your technique, then maybe consider selling your eMTB, buying a hardtail, and spending more time in the skills center and less smiling as you ride down the trail?

 

[HORSPWR]

Vitus has also switched to 165mm crankarms to increase pedal clearance, which is a great move because the geometry on the E-Sommet is genuinely long, low and slack, and that 5mm of extra pedal clearance is welcome, especially on steep, techy climbs. [remember Nico runs 160 mm ]

Vitus E-Sommet electric mountain bike review - MBR


yeah yeah nah .
Manufacturers are aware of pedal strikes .10 time World champions are aware of pedal strikes . This thread is full of pedal strikers .

So don`t try and convince me its all about rider skill . Terrain and equipment are definitely factors .

Yep, truth is most people will benefit from shorter cranks and more than 90% of their pedal strikes will be eliminated by going to shorter cranks. Sure, you don't have to go shorter to avoid them but who wants to piss around continually concentrating on timing your cranks observing every trail obstacle and not pedalling when you can if only your cranks were just a tad shorter.

When I had 175mm cranks my pedals looked great, pedal pins...not so much, it was clear that most of my strikes were only contacting by a few mil.

Now we have ebikes with motors that can blast us up and down any terrain we want, why not have the ability to pedal through most of the crap without the hassle of longer cranks bashing away.

 

[Rosemount]

I'm not really interested in convincing you of anything mate. You're so blinkered you struggle to comprehend basic sentences.

No one said terrain and equipment don't make a difference.
Please just stop your pointless argument.

Gary there is no need to resort to insults .
This is a forum we are here to share opinions , there are no absolutes . I can reassure you my reading comprehension is fine .Just because I don`t agree with you doesn`t mean I can`t comprehend ...

 

[Gary]

That wasn't an insult. Simply a comment on your lack of understanding

You've clearly never ridden a bike with a genuinely low BB in your life. So please stop talking shit about bikes with low BBs.
A low BB has positives and negatives. I don't expect you to even understand the positives.

 

[Rosemount]

That wasn't an insult. Simply a comment on your lack of understanding

You've clearly never ridden a bike with a genuinely low BB in your life. So please stop talking shit about bikes with low BBs.
A low BB has positives and negatives. I don't expect you to even understand the positives.

Hey Gary , not only are you an expert of all things bikes you also have a crystal ball !!

Can know the unknowable . That is some thing to be truly proud of . More so than always being right on the interwebs ...

 

[HORSPWR]

Hey Gary , not only are you an expert of all things bikes you also have a crystal ball !!

Can know the unknowable . That is some thing to be truly proud of . More so than always being right on the interwebs ...

I wouldn't bother getting into it with him, he's proven time and time again with his comments to people on here that he is an elitist narcissist with a superiority complex. If you research people like this they are actually insecure by nature and have very little in the way of friends because of this.

Not one of his posts is ever helpful to the OP, all he ever does is criticise their lack of skill, understanding and experience.

 

[Errol1098]

I wouldn't bother getting into it with him, he's proven time and time again with his comments to people on here that he is an elitist narcissist with a superiority complex. If you research people like this they are actually insecure by nature and have very little in the way of friends because of this.

Not one of his posts is ever helpful to the OP, all he ever does is criticise their lack of skill, understanding and experience.

I for one think @Gary posts are helpful and hope he keeps commenting as I find his knowledge useful to me. I'm also always surprised why people ask for opinions but only want the ones that suit their narrative, as soon as someone says it's a lack of ability or skill people start slagging off and get defensive, if you don't want the answer don't ask the question? Me, I'm no expert, don't know Gary, live on the other side of the world but enjoy the knowledge of all the people on here, I'm 58 but want to keep improving my skills not masking my issues by buying things to get around problems in my technique - Just my opinion
Oh, and I don't pedal strike much at all, my wife same bike, same cranks, same tracks, same pedals, lighter than me and she smashes the crap out of hers as she peddles through everything, I just buy her new pedals and tell her to keep practising her technique - she likes it to look nice - doh?

 

[speedkills]

I don't think people are only wanting opinions that suit their narrative, I (personal opinion here) just think that maybe people don't find the information is valuable enough to make up for the way the information is delivered.

Netflix has a famous hiring (or not hiring to be more specific) policy: No brilliant assholes. The point being, someone who is an asshole all day, even if they are constantly correct, doesn't make for a place people want to be. They needed to make this policy, because for people like that nothing else matters but being right, as if it trumps everything including common courtesy. And some of us feel that way, but others don't so I don't think we can just accept it as a given.

 

[Gary]

 

[TheRealPoMo]

I don't think people are only wanting opinions that suit their narrative, I (personal opinion here) just think that maybe people don't find the information is valuable enough to make up for the way the information is delivered.

Netflix has a famous hiring (or not hiring to be more specific) policy: No brilliant assholes.

This.

 

[Beekeeper]

Keeping the pedals at 9o’clock and 3o’clock was the best advice I ever read and I never get pedal strikes now

Also no components wear out, never need to lube chain and my bike never needs cleaning either. I’m saving an absolute fortune. My battery has remained at 100% and never needs charging.

For some reason with pedals in this position the trip counter always says zero miles and strangely, my house always remains in view during the entire ride ?

 

[Gary]

Netflix makes a lot of pretty poor films.. Going ahead and making entertainment badly seems a strangely similar decision to purposely smashing expensive alloy pedals into obsticles you can clearly see ahead.
And both decisions (if intentional) seem a little assholey to me.

 

[Gary]

Read this article.

What’s the best crank length on an E-MTB?

The trail in front of you gets steeper and you don’t want to lose your momentum, so you start pedalling like a maniac. Then you hear a loud clunking noise and everything comes to an abrupt halt… the next thing you know you’re flying over the bars! What happened? Chances are you jammed your crank […]

ebike-mtb.com

that's a good informative article and does a pretty good job of laying out the positives and negatives calmly and fairly. One point very few folk even think of mentioning is whether the EMTB rider also rides normal bikes.
I ride them just as much as my Emtb (and probably more than most Emtb riders ride at all) so switching between crank lengths of more than say 5mm between bikes is just not an attractive proposition for me. From a pedalling and bike control standpoint rather than anything to do with pedal strikes. As you know the ESommet is one of the lowest (sagged) BB FS Emtbs available. But it's actually quite a bit higher than my normal bikes. And I have decades of experience riding super low BB FS bikes. I love the increased cornering ability and stability it gives and do not mind one bit that a lot more thought is needed in planning ahead and crank/pedal position.
150mm cranks would also actually reduce some cornering stability and grip in certain situations.
It's nice to have choice and it's nice to be able to think about those choices. There's very little thinking going on in this thread and very little informed choice.. But what else would you expect from a bunch of priveleged lazy E bikers who barely ride at all?
??

 

[Zimmerframe]

old balls

Wrinkly old balls at that !

 

[Beekeeper]

No man, it’s all old balls here. That’s why we ride e bikes because we’re not young anymore. I wish there was some girls locker room talent around here..... but it’s all old balls.

Old or young, we are all just sand grains on the seashore of time

 

[Rosemount]

that's a good informative article and does a pretty good job of laying out the positives and negatives calmly and fairly. One point very few folk even think of mentioning is whether the EMTB rider also rides normal bikes.
I ride them just as much as my Emtb (and probably more than most Emtb riders ride at all) so switching between crank lengths of more than say 5mm between bikes is just not an attractive proposition for me. From a pedalling and bike control standpoint rather than anything to do with pedal strikes. As you know the ESommet is one of the lowest (sagged) BB FS Emtbs available. But it's actually quite a bit higher than my normal bikes. And I have decades of experience riding super low BB FS bikes. I love the increased cornering ability and stability it gives and do not mind one bit that a lot more thought is needed in planning ahead and crank/pedal position.
150mm cranks would also actually reduce some cornering stability and grip in certain situations.
It's nice to have choice and it's nice to be able to think about those choices. There's very little thinking going on in this thread and very little informed choice.. But what else would you expect from a bunch of priveleged lazy E bikers who barely ride at all?
??

What’s the best crank length on an E-MTB?

The trail in front of you gets steeper and you don’t want to lose your momentum, so you start pedalling like a maniac. Then you hear a loud clunking noise and everything comes to an abrupt halt… the next thing you know you’re flying over the bars! What happened? Chances are you jammed your crank […]

ebike-mtb.com

What’s the optimal crank length for e-mountainbikes?
As with all bikes, the optimal crank length also depends on body proportions. In our specific case the test has proven 160 mm cranks to be the optimal e-mountainbike solution. Still delivering a very natural pedalling feeling on flat sections, they only require a little more power (or a higher cadence) on climbs while offering an obvious advantage in terms of safety on technical uphills. The popular 175 mm cranks might be a very comfortable option for tall riders with long legs, but they aren’t really offering any more advantages. Finally, we consider very short cranks (≤ 150 mm) to be more of a niche-product aimed at a handful of riders and for a limited range of applications in very technical terrain, while presenting a number of disadvantages on trail rides.

 

[Gary]

There is NO proof.

FFS. What suits an individual rider best is down to personal preference, physics and physiology. Not trying out 3 crank lengths, listing the positives and negatives of the outliers and going with the middle one!

?