Semmelrocc
E*POWAH Master
When I read that I thought "ok fair enough, he wants to build a lightweight electrified XC machine". Further down I read about double black diamond lines and bike park riding. Are you sure, your setup is purpose built?
Levo SL Gen 1 Levo SL 2023 Megathread
- Thread starter Killswitch73
- Start date
Interesting points. Does anyone know what the effective top tube lengths are on the Gen 2?
I'm in at a slightly different angle from you. Although I still have my stumpy hanging up in the garage, it's rarely used outdoors. It's on a Kickr for winter, and very occasionally gets out in the summer. It's probably used more by friends who want to come for a bike ride with me than me!
I want a single bike that feels like an analogue bike, but also has the ability to give me a little bit extra on top of my legs. That's why I've been riding an SL for the last 3 and a bit years. I could have multiple bikes... but then I'd be torn which one to take. Just like I could have multiple cars... but I'd always feel like I had the wrong one with me. I bought an F-Pace SVR a couple of years ago, as it has the practicality of a SUV, tow ball for my bike rack, and the performance of a sports car. I could have 2 separate vehicles and then think "I need to take this huge box home - I wish I had the SUV"... or "this road looks really nice - I wish I had the sports car". Easy thing to do is get one that ticks all the boxes.
That's where I am with the Levo SL. It's my do it all bike. It's capable of long epic days on the trails, but also quote capable of ploughing down the downhill runs (at my level anyway!!). I want it light enough so that I can carry it over fences / gates and up the 'hike-a-bike' trails we have that are nearly impossible to push up, but with the robustness and performance to be able to tackle the jump lines and downhill runs without feeling like it's going to crumble. That's my aim anyway!!
That's exactly where I am just now. I sit a bit more upright on the S4 than I did on the XL... however I've always felt that I was stretching too far forward on the XL. I used to get shoulder / back pains if I rode for too long... and would have to sit up when cruising about to try and stretch them... all from hunching forward.
Although the S4 feels cramped at the moment, I think I'll get used to it and that it's the correct choice.
What does feel really odd just now is sitting on the S4 with the dropper slammed almost feels like I'm on my 8 year old daughters bike!!
If I'd tried the S4 in the car park, I'd probably have been going home with the S5. Now I've ridden the S4 on the trails, I feel like I've made the right choice... but it'll take a bit of getting used to when riding it on the paths and forest trails as it feels like a big change from my XL!
Regarding modern AM/ Enduro bike fit: my opinion is that when you are sitting your hands should fall comfortably on the bars & when you are standing the same should happen.
In Motocross they call it having heavy feet but light hands and it's important for good bike handling.
There is no doubt that I like my bikes on the large side, but still this sort of fit for everyone (imo) requires a long Reach AND a short TT length, best achieved with a good and steep sta. If the sta is too slack you'll get one or the other (seated or standing) right, but not both.
Examples are: my Spur is a downcountry bike and with a bit slack sta &:480 Reach the fit feels perfect seated, but considerably too short while standing, as if I'm holding my knee caps unless I lean/squat oddly back. This is correct for a DC bike where I sit so much and use it on flatter terrain.
My S5 SJEVO on the other hand has a 498 mm Reach and feels perfect while standing, but a hair stretched out while seated as a result of a bit slack real world sta at my seat height.
To put the two bikes above in context, these bikes measure very nearly the same from seat to steerer, even though the Reach is considerably different between the two.
My new Relay as a mullet has something like a 505 Reach and feels a slight bit long and unwieldy when standing (could be weight, still working through this), but seated is really nice as it's real world steep sta makes the seated TT 20mm + shorter than the SJEVO.
In Motocross they call it having heavy feet but light hands and it's important for good bike handling.
There is no doubt that I like my bikes on the large side, but still this sort of fit for everyone (imo) requires a long Reach AND a short TT length, best achieved with a good and steep sta. If the sta is too slack you'll get one or the other (seated or standing) right, but not both.
Examples are: my Spur is a downcountry bike and with a bit slack sta &:480 Reach the fit feels perfect seated, but considerably too short while standing, as if I'm holding my knee caps unless I lean/squat oddly back. This is correct for a DC bike where I sit so much and use it on flatter terrain.
My S5 SJEVO on the other hand has a 498 mm Reach and feels perfect while standing, but a hair stretched out while seated as a result of a bit slack real world sta at my seat height.
To put the two bikes above in context, these bikes measure very nearly the same from seat to steerer, even though the Reach is considerably different between the two.
My new Relay as a mullet has something like a 505 Reach and feels a slight bit long and unwieldy when standing (could be weight, still working through this), but seated is really nice as it's real world steep sta makes the seated TT 20mm + shorter than the SJEVO.
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My opinion is that you went considerably too small.
The SL has a pretty slack sta and if you feel cramped while seated, it's probably tiny while standing.
For example you should be able to stand balanced on the pedals in the attack position and your hands should naturally come down on the bars.
I suspect that if you let go of your bars while standing, you'd instantly fall backwards off your bike, because your bars are too close and you are leaning back to feel natural.
All that weight in your bars has a very negative effect on handling.
Desert_Turtle
Active member
I don’t know how to make the comparison to the EXe. I had an EXe 9.8. It wasn’t a bad bike. Trek did a great job with both the design and execution of it. I think that the main reason for selling mine was a lack of a range extender as well.
The EXe beats the SL2 in 3 categories: it’s quieter, it’s cheaper, and it’s got a little better range. Unfortunately, those 3 things, to a varying degree, are not the key reasons that I make purchases. I’m not one of those guys that cares about motor noise, I already have 2 Specialized range extenders, and while price is important it’s not everything. For the same amount of money my EXe came with an XT drivetrain, XT brakes, carbon wheels, carbon cranks, & carbon bars. In that regard the Trek kicks the SLs ass.
I’m not a tall guy, 5’8”/173cm, but I felt that the Gen1 Levo SL was tiny and I had to ride a Large. My S3 Gen2 fits much better than a medium or Large Gen1. It’s very comfortable. It’s the first bike that I’ve bought in a long time that I could actually put a longer stem on.
I’m terms of the ride the new SL feels better to me than the EXe. The kinematic of the EXe kept you higher in the stroke which is a Trek thing while the SL has a better ride that puts you more into the bike. The Specialized also feels like the suspension is deeper….which technically it is! The EXe is by no means a bad bike but it does feel more traily even after you put a 10mm longer fork on it. My EXe came with Treks fancy 1 piece Carbon bar/stem and it was so stiff! It was unpleasant to hold onto. I can’t remember if that was a deal breaker or not but I do remember it.
The motors are also very different. In terms of power they are pretty close. The TQ is more torque rich down low at a slower cadence while the SLs motor likes to spool up and spin. I’m not sure which I would call more natural but most people would say the TQ because of how quiet it is but in all reality you’d have to pedal an acoustic bike faster to get more power so one could make a strong argument that the SL motor is more natural. Also not something that I care much about. The one thing about the old SL is that the motors were very reliable. I don’t care what anybody says the SL motor is the most reliable motor in an ebike. Even more so than the Bosch or Yamaha. Motor failures were/are incredibly rare. Most motor replacement issues with the SL were hardware issues like cranks. Treks TQ system has had some bugs.
The EXe beats the SL2 in 3 categories: it’s quieter, it’s cheaper, and it’s got a little better range. Unfortunately, those 3 things, to a varying degree, are not the key reasons that I make purchases. I’m not one of those guys that cares about motor noise, I already have 2 Specialized range extenders, and while price is important it’s not everything. For the same amount of money my EXe came with an XT drivetrain, XT brakes, carbon wheels, carbon cranks, & carbon bars. In that regard the Trek kicks the SLs ass.
I’m not a tall guy, 5’8”/173cm, but I felt that the Gen1 Levo SL was tiny and I had to ride a Large. My S3 Gen2 fits much better than a medium or Large Gen1. It’s very comfortable. It’s the first bike that I’ve bought in a long time that I could actually put a longer stem on.
I’m terms of the ride the new SL feels better to me than the EXe. The kinematic of the EXe kept you higher in the stroke which is a Trek thing while the SL has a better ride that puts you more into the bike. The Specialized also feels like the suspension is deeper….which technically it is! The EXe is by no means a bad bike but it does feel more traily even after you put a 10mm longer fork on it. My EXe came with Treks fancy 1 piece Carbon bar/stem and it was so stiff! It was unpleasant to hold onto. I can’t remember if that was a deal breaker or not but I do remember it.
The motors are also very different. In terms of power they are pretty close. The TQ is more torque rich down low at a slower cadence while the SLs motor likes to spool up and spin. I’m not sure which I would call more natural but most people would say the TQ because of how quiet it is but in all reality you’d have to pedal an acoustic bike faster to get more power so one could make a strong argument that the SL motor is more natural. Also not something that I care much about. The one thing about the old SL is that the motors were very reliable. I don’t care what anybody says the SL motor is the most reliable motor in an ebike. Even more so than the Bosch or Yamaha. Motor failures were/are incredibly rare. Most motor replacement issues with the SL were hardware issues like cranks. Treks TQ system has had some bugs.
Desert_Turtle
Active member
Yeah, of course. I just wanted to try the SL out on the harder stuff. I had a Levo with me too. Normally I’m riding trails by my house. I only go to the bike park every couple of weeks. My home trails are rocky and hilly but there’s nothing requiring an enduro bike. At least 2 days a week I’m by myself and those are going to be my SL days.When I read that I thought "ok fair enough, he wants to build a lightweight electrified XC machine". Further down I read about double black diamond lines and bike park riding. Are you sure, your setup is purpose built?
Salespunk
Active member
Gen 2 S4 ETT 631/Reach 470
Gen 2 S5 ETT 659/Reach 495
Gen 1 LG ETT 628/Reach 455
Gen 1 XL ETT 664/Reach 481
You can see how the Reach and Effective Top Tube interact based on the changes in geo new vs old
I’m glad to report back after trying this that you’re wrong!
If I let go of the bars when standing, I stay pretty well balanced. I am definitely not leaning backwards at all.
The Spesh sizing guide has S4 at 5ft 8 to 6ft 2… and S5 at 5ft 10 to 6ft 4.
I’m about 6ft 1 and a half.
In theory, I could do S4 or S5… or probably even S6 at a push.
The chart states go smaller for manoeuvrability, and larger for stability.
I want a manoeuvrable bike… so S4 for me.
It just feels a bit alien just now because I’m used to drive a much bigger bike.
Probably the same as going from a monster truck to driving a saloon car!!
Desert_Turtle
Active member
As much as I love talking bike tech I think the new sizing is just better practically speaking. My only complaint is that bike is short and I think the rear stay is too short in the 27.5 setting. In S3 I found the bike a little twitchy with the 27.5. When I ordered the bike none of the geo info was available but all of my other current Specialized bikes are S3s so that’s what I ordered. In either configuration the bike is a corner ripping machine but I think it’s better with the 29” rear overall. If you guys want to start getting techy let’s start talking about how Specialized eliminated the need for a Cascade link! The new rear suspension is the best part of the bike. It rides great. Very plush and comfortable!
At 190cm on the S5 the bike felt tiny at the front, I had to fit a 50mm riser and run +30mm spacers.
IMO, most longer/bigger bikes are not going high enough on the stack proportionally to the reach increase.
Between S1 and S6 Levo SL, reach increases by 120mm but stack height only 45mm. Thats a 30% increase in reach, but just a 7% increase in stack height.
Also the bar size and 30mm rise is the exact same is the same on all frames.
Taller folks, try a higher rise bar ...
IMO, most longer/bigger bikes are not going high enough on the stack proportionally to the reach increase.
Between S1 and S6 Levo SL, reach increases by 120mm but stack height only 45mm. Thats a 30% increase in reach, but just a 7% increase in stack height.
Also the bar size and 30mm rise is the exact same is the same on all frames.
Taller folks, try a higher rise bar ...
Glad to hear it and sounds like you choose correctly.
Spesh has a 6" range for each size, which isn't wrong. That's how much variability in body types and choices there are.
I have to remember that not everyone has goofy monkey arms like me and other specific physical attributes, that no doubt effect bike fit and preferences.
The other thing I'd add is that people will often make a huge deal about going up/ down on bike size but in reality, when you're standing it's mostly just a 20mm difference forward/ back in Reach/ hand position. Which just isn't much.
Rob's point about Stacks not being proportional rings true as well.
Glad you're stoked on the size you bought.
I imagine that it’s posted somewhere in the thread already but I’m assuming normal previous generation XX1/XO1 cranks won’t work?
I’m considering going frame only as I’ve been offered a stellar deal on a used twice S-Works Stumpy Evo. I can pretty much swap all parts over onto the Levo SL and save some money. I’d then sell the frame and maybe the fork too but the fork is the right one for the SL.
The only issues is that it would be the black version which I don’t like as much. If I go this route I’d get some custom frame decals made up.
I’m considering going frame only as I’ve been offered a stellar deal on a used twice S-Works Stumpy Evo. I can pretty much swap all parts over onto the Levo SL and save some money. I’d then sell the frame and maybe the fork too but the fork is the right one for the SL.
The only issues is that it would be the black version which I don’t like as much. If I go this route I’d get some custom frame decals made up.
You wouldn't be able to use SRAM cranks from an analog bike on an ebike. The frame only option includes cranks...
Salespunk
Active member
From what I read previously in this thread, they will not work
Reap3r
Member
Thanks, I got my DU (spacer) removal tool today and was able to mount up the x2 no problemTry to pull it out the the spacer from the fox float x
It should fit the x2 without any problems
Coming from a Large Ripley and Large Rise I had significant hand pressure on both bikes while seated due to the the steep SA. Now on an S4 Levo the hand pressure/fatigue has disappeared, but I still have no issues weighting the front and have no front wheel lift on the steepest of climbs.
I'm 6' with a long 35" inseam, which can't get much longer for my height= seat extended high.
I demoed the V1 SL(3 years ago) and did a second parking lot ride to check the fit and I had to slam the seat all the way forward on the rails due to the slack STA. The V2 SL isn't even as steep as the Levo, so it shouldn't have much effect and make the bike feel smaller like many other bike brands do.
I'm 6' with a long 35" inseam, which can't get much longer for my height= seat extended high.
I demoed the V1 SL(3 years ago) and did a second parking lot ride to check the fit and I had to slam the seat all the way forward on the rails due to the slack STA. The V2 SL isn't even as steep as the Levo, so it shouldn't have much effect and make the bike feel smaller like many other bike brands do.
singletrackminded
Active member
I too found the S3 to be a bit twitchy with the stock 65.5 headset. I installed the -1 deg/64.5 headset and viola! The bike tracks like its on rails, twitch steering gone and no wheel flop. Everyone should do this swap first thing. The bike now seems near perfect to me, I just wish I could find a decent dropper post w/ some setback, as the cockpit feels a bit cramped and I prefer a more traditional SA. I appreciate the shorter chain stays , the climbing traction is spot on. Ive upgraded from the Comp parts and now have the SL2 bike at 37.6 lbs. Thats about a pound and a half more than my 2020 Levo SL/Gen1 bike, but the tradeoffs in geo and suspension progression are well worth it. As far as motor noise, SL2 is night and day improvement over the SL1, on par and perhaps slightly quieter that the Gen 3 Brose motor. The new SL is now my daily driver for sure. Gonna be hard to get back on the Gen3 Levo (mine weights 45.7 lbs.) for all but the burly / extendo rides. I really appreciate the flick- ability and playfulness of the SL2.
rydeezie
Well-known member
Is that the best way to position the valve? Have you tried positioning towards bottom non-drive side?Thanks, I got my DU (spacer) removal tool today and was able to mount up the x2 no problem
View attachment 116495
Just wondering if that valve position pictured will snag on clothing
rydeezie
Well-known member
Has anyone found a better option to secure the RE battery other than a water bottle cage with a rubber band?
Still would like something convenient but dedicated as a battery holder
No matter how i configure the rubber band the cable un-plugs when riding on rough terrain or doing jumps
Still would like something convenient but dedicated as a battery holder
No matter how i configure the rubber band the cable un-plugs when riding on rough terrain or doing jumps
Just to point this out as lots of people do it unintentionally and it could cause the wrong reaction at some point ..
But it's Voila - not Viola !
Viola is to violate - to rape !!
In the UK, a Viola is musical instrument - a bit like a Violin!
True, and elsewhere - though it's an Italian word.In the UK, a Viola is musical instrument - a bit like a Violin!
It's a plant too !
Loamranger
Active member
Have you tried the band over the plug at the battery end?
What size Spur are you comparing to a S5 sjevo?
The cable going into the RE unplugs?
On my old SL, I actually bought my RE off Rob, and it never came with the elastic band.
I had a Velcro strap that I used to pull round the RE / bottle cage that held it in tight.
I always find I need to force the cable into the RE pretty hard, and have never had any worry of that coming out.
The first time I used the RE on the new bike, I struggled to get the short cable to lock into the frame... but I think that was due to me trying to put it in in the lock position and then unlock it
It's a pretty neat fit with the short cable though!
rydeezie
Well-known member
Yes i have. I just wish there is a mount specifically for the RE only rather than a RE/Bottle holder. For those that don’t use a bottle cage
something that would clamp it down and be a little more sturdy
i already use a camelbak for hydration. I’m not going to switch to a bottle during my ride after the RE is depleted
rydeezie
Well-known member
Yes it unplugs and i will see my bike turned off at the bottom of descentThe cable going into the RE unplugs?
On my old SL, I actually bought my RE off Rob, and it never came with the elastic band.
I had a Velcro strap that I used to pull round the RE / bottle cage that held it in tight.
I always find I need to force the cable into the RE pretty hard, and have never had any worry of that coming out.
The first time I used the RE on the new bike, I struggled to get the short cable to lock into the frame... but I think that was due to me trying to put it in in the lock position and then unlock it
It's a pretty neat fit with the short cable though!
usually on high speed chunky terrain trails
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