Important safety note from Canyon: the Spectral:ON CF / CFR and Torque:ON CF models may have damage to the battery

[Mikerb]

Im not a Canyon bike owner but if I was the considerable delay in coming up with a fix for this problem suggests to me it is certainly not an issue of merely replacing the faulty batteries with new ones of the same design from the same source. Of course there would be issues deciding who should pay for that replacement but in my opinion if it was a viable solution Canyon would elect to carry the cost and argue the toss re costs later.
The extended delay suggests to me that either the existing battery design or a combination of its design and how it is secured in the bike, is fundamentally flawed.
If indeed that is the case, I would ideally want either a complete refund or a replacement bike. Any modified battery or fixing system would almost certainly require some remedial work to be a carried out by a service centre, probably incurring even more delay.

 

[Weeksy]

Remember, batteries have to come by boat, so it's possible even if they have the batteries made now, by the time they get them on a boat, get them to EU, packaged and shipped, it would still be the middle of Jan. So it's possible the solution already exists, it's just going to take time.

 

[JP-NZ]

Im not a Canyon bike owner but if I was the considerable delay in coming up with a fix for this problem suggests to me it is certainly not an issue of merely replacing the faulty batteries with new ones of the same design from the same source. Of course there would be issues deciding who should pay for that replacement but in my opinion if it was a viable solution Canyon would elect to carry the cost and argue the toss re costs later.
The extended delay suggests to me that either the existing battery design or a combination of its design and how it is secured in the bike, is fundamentally flawed.
If indeed that is the case, I would ideally want either a complete refund or a replacement bike. Any modified battery or fixing system would almost certainly require some remedial work to be a carried out by a service centre, probably incurring even more delay.

Best post on this thread.

I also have no skin in the game, but this is obviously a major design issue for Canyon.

 

[JP-NZ]

Remember, batteries have to come by boat, so it's possible even if they have the batteries made now, by the time they get them on a boat, get them to EU, packaged and shipped, it would still be the middle of Jan. So it's possible the solution already exists, it's just going to take time.

Changing batteries won't fix the fundamentally flawed mounting issues and Canyon's substandard design.

 

[Mikerb]

Remember, batteries have to come by boat, so it's possible even if they have the batteries made now, by the time they get them on a boat, get them to EU, packaged and shipped, it would still be the middle of Jan. So it's possible the solution already exists, it's just going to take time.

Canyon would carry some stock for warranty claims and to build new bikes ...maybe nowhere near enough for everyone but that would mean they could make a start...............I understand the bikes using that battery and fixing system are withdrawn from sale however...............tells you all you need to know.

 

[JP-NZ]

What is surprising to me and awfully concerning if I was a potential Canyon customer is that this is the 2nd time now they have designed an ebike with fundamental design issues with two different batteries.

The Strive:ON drama which affected all bikes and was battery latch breakages and abnormal terminal wear across Bosch batteries.

Now we have the Spectral:ON and Torque:ON with battery mounting issues with Shimano/3rd party batteries.

 

[vadII]

Changing batteries won't fix the fundamentally flawed mounting issues and Canyon's substandard design.

What's the problem with the mounting? Specialized Levo has a single threaded joint in its battery. And the battery is also unique and only suitable for a specific model. The battery itself (the case) is not made of cheap thin plastic, as was done for the Сanyon. Not a fan of Canyon, BTW.

 

[juzeppe]

What's the problem with the mounting? Specialized Levo has a single threaded joint in its battery. And the battery is also unique and only suitable for a specific model. The battery itself (the case) is not made of cheap thin plastic, as was done for the Сanyon. Not a fan of Canyon, BTW.

The problem is that the Canyon uses untested cheap solutions, and this is not only a battery. think this is a good chance to quit from this ownage of raw product with stupid support, and a good lesson.

 

[BDM]

The problem is that the Canyon uses untested cheap solutions, and this is not only a battery. think this is a good chance to quit from this ownage of raw product with stupid support, and a good lesson.

What's the problem with the mounting? Specialized Levo has a single threaded joint in its battery. And the battery is also unique and only suitable for a specific model. The battery itself (the case) is not made of cheap thin plastic, as was done for the Сanyon. Not a fan of Canyon, BTW.

Fixing design of YT battery, a thru-bolted design, seems way more solid then the undeep threated Canyon bolts.

 

[vadII]

Fixing design of YT battery, a thru-bolted design, seems way more solid then the undeep threated Canyon bolts.

Did you see how Specialized did that? Only one bolt, same as on Canyon

 

[BDM]

Did you see how Specialized did that? Only one bolt, same as on Canyon

One end is hooked-in, the other end is fixed with a thru-bolt design. Same principle as YT and way better than Canyon.

 

[vadII]

One end is hooked-in, the other end is fixed with a thru-bolt design. Same principle as YT and way better than Canyon.

Really? I don't see that on my Levo 22
Anyway, I saw many times how Shimano external or bottom tube mount batteries flew out of the bikes and fell on rocks/ground. They were picked up, put in the bike and rode on. Also bad design? Or just a proper battery case made from proper materials?

 

[BDM]

Really? I don't see that on my Levo 22
Anyway, I saw many times how Shimano external or bottom tube mount batteries flew out of the bikes and fell on rocks/ground. They were picked up, put in the bike and rode on. Also bad design? Or just a proper battery case made from proper materials?

In that case a better casing with preservation of the existing fixing design would solve the problem for Canyon. Fingers crosssed that the replacement can take place in february. According to the legal warranty law applied in Belgium, you can claim a refund if the problem isn t solved within 3 months.

 

[Mikerb]

Battery fixing methods are certainly something to keep a an eye on now . Batteries have moved on from 500w/h to typically 700/750 and even 800/900 w/h so getting bigger and heavier. Most use the multi male pin connector plug at one end of the battery and then a variety of fixing methods at the other end.
The first problem. Is that those plug connectors are not ideal fixing points especially if located at the bottom of the battery (e.g most of the batteries fitted into a cut out downtube), neither are they very suitable for constant connection and disconnection.
Then there is the fixing.at the bottom of the battery. This has to withstand not just the static but also the dynamic force of the battery weight.
The combination of top and bottom fixings also has to prevent any sideways movement of the battery.
Most of the problems inherent in the various solutions would be avoided if the battery was mounted horizontally rather than near vertical but designer's want the weight to be as low as possible .
Specialized resolved many of the issues by using a cable connected Rosenberger plug at the base of the battery and a simple blocking bolt at the top.
Bosch produced another solution using a steel rail system where both the battery itself , the plug connection and bottom fixing method are all fixed to and held by the rail.
Both of my bikes use the Bosch rail system and neither has caused any problems.
I had a Levo for a couple years and caused no problems either....although the magnetic Rosenberger connector and cable need some special care.
I would not buy a bike with a cut out downtube design.
My advice would be to consider how any battery is secured on bikes you short list to buy.

Interesting that there are some examples now of new approaches. Non removeable batteries is one.......using a smaller main battery plus an extender is another. Neither marketed as ways to resolve issues of housing bigger batteries....but they probably do just that!

 

[BDM]

Battery fixing methods are certainly something to keep a an eye on now . Batteries have moved on from 500w/h to typically 700/750 and even 800/900 w/h so getting bigger and heavier. Most use the multi male pin connector plug at one end of the battery and then a variety of fixing methods at the other end.
The first problem. Is that those plug connectors are not ideal fixing points especially if located at the bottom of the battery (e.g most of the batteries fitted into a cut out downtube), neither are they very suitable for constant connection and disconnection.
Then there is the fixing.at the bottom of the battery. This has to withstand not just the static but also the dynamic force of the battery weight.
The combination of top and bottom fixings also has to prevent any sideways movement of the battery.
Most of the problems inherent in the various solutions would be avoided if the battery was mounted horizontally rather than near vertical but designer's want the weight to be as low as possible .
Specialized resolved many of the issues by using a cable connected Rosenberger plug at the base of the battery and a simple blocking bolt at the top.
Bosch produced another solution using a steel rail system where both the battery itself , the plug connection and bottom fixing method are all fixed to and held by the rail.
Both of my bikes use the Bosch rail system and neither has caused any problems.
I had a Levo for a couple years and caused no problems either....although the magnetic Rosenberger connector and cable need some special care.
I would not buy a bike with a cut out downtube design.
My advice would be to consider how any battery is secured on bikes you short list to buy.

Interesting that there are some examples now of new approaches. Non removeable batteries is one.......using a smaller main battery plus an extender is another. Neither marketed as ways to resolve issues of housing bigger batteries....but they probably do just that!

Why wouldn t you buy a cutout design?
No problems with the YT Decoy f e.

 

[Ozone08]

Has anyone filled out the "Partial Return form" from the update email yet? I just entered my bikes serial No and got a "Based on the serial number provided, your bike is not affected by the safety notice and therefore not eligible for a refund."

This is not true as I have the 900 w/h BT0004.

 

[SummerMadness]

Has anyone filled out the "Partial Return form" from the update email yet? I just entered my bikes serial No and got a "Based on the serial number provided, your bike is not affected by the safety notice and therefore not eligible for a refund."

This is not true as I have the 900 w/h BT0004.

I had the same and complained to them, they then resent the link!

 

[BDM]

Do you need to claim the partial refund before a certain date?

 

[Zed. (Justin is short)]

Has anyone filled out the "Partial Return form" from the update email yet? I just entered my bikes serial No and got a "Based on the serial number provided, your bike is not affected by the safety notice and therefore not eligible for a refund."

This is not true as I have the 900 w/h BT0004.

Important safety note from Canyon: the Spectral:ON CF / CFR and Torque:ON CF models may have damage to the battery

Just had an update, that the update, will be updated at 4pm today, with another update about future updates please keep us updated! and update about updates could be multiplied by the time zones! now it's uncertain

www.emtbforums.com

I think she used 'incognito' mode in the end

Rich.

 

[irie]

... Am now out of this thread.

Am going to make one more, and only one more, post. As said earlier in this thread:

Seems that Canyon is (indirectly?) controlled by "Groupe Bruxelles Lambert" so perhaps the GBL board will be involved.

Groupe Bruxelles Lambert — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

No doubt options will be being discussed by lawyers and accountants of Groupe_Bruxelles_Lambert with a turnover of €4.5 billion, one option being that it may be cheaper on a corporate basis to allow Canyon to go into receivership rather than to honour warranty claims with full refunds.

Be warned, and be careful.

 

[Zed. (Justin is short)]

Do you need to claim the partial refund before a certain date?

good question

theres a lot that needs clarification......

warranty, ticking away or extended?
what is the 'fix'
when will our bikes be ridable?
if batteries have been disposed of and the 'fix' is a case or alternative fixing method then what happens?
if you take the 'partial refund' how does this affect your consumer rights OR warranty return of bike if deemed not fit for purpose

Canyon are a German company, they will have taken serious legal advice before any press release OR offer to customer so beware that there's a legal 'get out' for them

Rich. (Cynic)

 

[BDM]

Am going to make one more, and only one more, post. As said earlier in this thread:



No doubt options will be being discussed by lawyers and accountants of Groupe_Bruxelles_Lambert with a turnover of €4.5 billion, one option being that it may be cheaper on a corporate basis to allow Canyon to go into receivership rather than to honour warranty claims with full refunds.

Be warned, and be careful.

Seems a bit of a doom scenario to me. Too early to claim refunds anyway.

 

[Mikerb]

Why wouldn t you buy a cutout design?
No problems with the YT Decoy f e.

I dont know the Decoy but for many bikes with a cut out down tube the battery is secured at the top either with a key lock or some type of sprung loaded catch.....OK if whatever method used is , and remains a tight connection. For me the 2 biggest issues are that the battery merely sits on the plug connector at the bottom and as I mentioned a bove those plug connectors are not proper fixing points; and secondly the downtube cutaway is covered in ( usually) a fairly flimsy plastic cover. The downtube is subject to a lot of dirt and water spray from the front wheel even with a decent mudguard fitted and any dirt/dust/water ingress migrates down the battery to the electrical plug. Some bikes with that design have suffered from battery movement ( which causes either disconnections or , in time, damage to the plug connection) and even batteries falling out due to failure of the topkey lock or sprung loaded catch.

 

[irie]

I dont know the Decoy but for many bikes with a cut out down tube the battery is secured at the top either with a key lock or some type of sprung loaded catch.....OK if whatever method used is , and remains a tight connection. For me the 2 biggest issues are that the battery merely sits on the plug connector at the bottom and as I mentioned a bove those plug connectors are not proper fixing points; and secondly the downtube cutaway is covered in ( usually) a fairly flimsy plastic cover. The downtube is subject to a lot of dirt and water spray from the front wheel even with a decent mudguard fitted and any dirt/dust/water ingress migrates down the battery to the electrical plug. Some bikes with that design have suffered from battery movement ( which causes either disconnections or , in time, damage to the plug connection) and even batteries falling out due to failure of the topkey lock or sprung loaded catch.

So exactly which eMTBs do you consider suffer from the above problems and would therefore be unwise to buy?

 

[Mikerb]

So exactly which eMTBs do you consider suffer from the above problems and would therefore be unwise to buy?

any that do not have a solid downtube.....solid downtube meaning those where battery access/removal has to be from an opening at the bottom of the downtube.

 

[Mark24]

any that do not have a solid downtube.....solid downtube meaning those where battery access/removal has to be from an opening at the bottom of the downtube.

You really do come out with complete crap at times

 

[irie]

any that do not have a solid downtube.....solid downtube meaning those where battery access/removal has to be from an opening at the bottom of the downtube.

You have dodged the question which was:

"So exactly which eMTBs do you consider suffer from the above problems and would therefore be unwise to buy?".

 

[Mikerb]

You have dodged the question which was:

"So exactly which eMTBs do you consider suffer from the above problems and would therefore be unwise to buy?".

yes I dodged it, but its pretty obvious to spot

 

[irie]

yes I dodged it, but its pretty obvious to spot

Enlighten us poor thickos, oh special one.

 

[Chrysaor]

It’s incredible the amount of these bikes for sale these days, even from second hand pro shops … can’t believe nobody got the information before trying to sell it