I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

jd_3d said:
I would love to print in Titanium. Sadly over the past 5 years the cost hasn't gone down at all. It's still ridiculously expensive. Shapeways doesn't have Titanium but i.Materialise.com does, so just for kicks I uploaded the model to see how much it would be. Grand total? $747.34 :eek:

Titanium is so expensive that getting it printed in Silver is about the same cost ($800). Aluminum would run around $300 and steel about $200.
Click to expand...

I'd Pay $300 for an Aluminium one. Thought of doing a Kickstarter to get funds to increase the volume to reduce the per unit price? There would have to be a market for it.
 
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Jacoo said:
I received the LSS today, the finish of the pieces is good
I'm waiting for the magnet, I'll send you a picture of the installation before you ride
thank you for your ingenuity
hello from France
Click to expand...

You are the first I've heard to receive one, so congratulations! I'm glad the prints turned out good. Do please let us know about how well it fits and if there are any issues. I'm sure we would all love pictures as well :)
 
sebbyr said:
I'd Pay $300 for an Aluminium one. Thought of doing a Kickstarter to get funds to increase the volume to reduce the per unit price? There would have to be a market for it.
Click to expand...

I'm open to all possibilities, however, I'm not aware of any 3d printing places that offer a volume discount (it's not like injection molding where there are upfront costs). I've also never gotten anything printed in Aluminum, but I have in stainless steel and the quality is a bit rough (I believe both are a sintering process and hence have dimensional issues and possible warping). If anyone has more experience than me in this area I'd love to hear your feedback.
 
sebbyr said:
I'd Pay $300 for an Aluminium one. Thought of doing a Kickstarter to get funds to increase the volume to reduce the per unit price? There would have to be a market for it.
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Why? The nylon one would be lighter and should work just fine. Not that the weight difference between nylon/AL/Ti for a part that small would be much at all.
 
Voici les photos pas de problème pour le montage
20190117_175644.jpg
20190117_175830.jpg
 
Slowroller said:
Why? The nylon one would be lighter and should work just fine. Not that the weight difference between nylon/AL/Ti for a part that small would be much at all.
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Durability and strength mainly. And you could probably make it a bit thinner in Alu/Ti so the magnet could be closer to the sensor.

jd_3d have you thought about keeping the gears nylon/plastic and putting them in a machined aluminium body. I'm just concerned about rocks/sticks etc destroying it, or is the current iteration pretty tough as is?
 
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Jacoo said:
Voici les photos pas de problème pour le montage
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Thanks for the pictures Jacoo. I'm not that good with French, but if I'm understanding you correctly, I think you are saying there was no problem mounting it to the bike. That's great news as that was one of my main concerns (i.e., the tolerances on the parts printed by Shapeways).
 
sebbyr said:
Durability and strength mainly. And you could probably make it a bit thinner in Alu/Ti so the magnet could be closer to the sensor.

jd_3d have you thought about keeping the gears nylon/plastic and putting them in a machined aluminium body. I'm just concerned about rocks/sticks etc destroying it, or is the current iteration pretty tough as is?
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I think the nylon is going to be pretty tough, but mostly because of it's location. It's very protected by both the frame and the sensor and rotor. Then again I don't ride through bushes much, so if someone is doing some sort of epic ride on an overgrown trail, that could be different. I think the best coarse of action is to wait until some people have had a chance to use it for a few weeks and then see if there are failures and if so what those failure mechanisms are. I wanted to keep the price down to below $100, and moving to machined aluminum would make the price jump a lot.
 
Jacoo said:
I noticed that the teeth of the magnet pinion are too thin
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Hi Jacoo,

If you rotate the wheel axle, does the planetary gear rotate smoothly? There are 2 things that may be happening:

1) After first putting the item up for sale, Shapeways contacted me as they didn't like the fillets on the planetary gear nor the "M" inscription on it, so I adjusted those and updated the model. It looks like you got the previous version, but both should work just fine. The larger fillets on the planetary gear make it look like the teeth are smaller.

2) I'm noticing that the prints from you and 2manytickets look a bit different. I think this is because you are in Europe and hence Shapeways is printing from their Netherlands office, whereas orders from the USA are coming from the New York office. There may be variability in the machines used (I can look into this with them if it is an issue).
 
jd_3d said:
Hi Jacoo,

If you rotate the wheel axle, does the planetary gear rotate smoothly? There are 2 things that may be happening:

1) After first putting the item up for sale, Shapeways contacted me as they didn't like the fillets on the planetary gear nor the "M" inscription on it, so I adjusted those and updated the model. It looks like you got the previous version, but both should work just fine. The larger fillets on the planetary gear make it look like the teeth are smaller.

2) I'm noticing that the prints from you and 2manytickets look a bit different. I think this is because you are in Europe and hence Shapeways is printing from their Netherlands office, whereas orders from the USA are coming from the New York office. There may be variability in the machines used (I can look into this with them if it is an issue).
Click to expand...

hello jd-3d
I also think that it should work,the planetary gear rotate smoothy
soon I would order a second LSS because I have two pairs of wheels, one for the road, and another for the mountain bike
may be during this second command, it is possible to obtain a better planetary gear?
 
Jacoo said:
hello jd-3d
I also think that it should work,the planetary gear rotate smoothy
soon I would order a second LSS because I have two pairs of wheels, one for the road, and another for the mountain bike
may be during this second command, it is possible to obtain a better planetary gear?
Click to expand...

If your order a second one, it should automatically be the newer design. If you'd like just the planetary gear to update your current LSS then I could upload that as a separate product. Actually, once I get feedback from a few people that everything is ok with the design and it's working I can upload each part individually so that if anyone needs a replacement part they can buy each part separately which should be much less expensive.
 
first exit today 10km on the road and rainy weather, the LSS works very well, 40 km / h before cutoff, with longer transmission more I think but already very well
no water in the LSS
nylon is good
 
Jacoo said:
first exit today 10km on the road and rainy weather, the LSS works very well, 40 km / h before cutoff, with longer transmission more I think but already very well
no water in the LSS
nylon is good
Click to expand...

Awesome! I'm glad it's working well. Thanks for the update.
 
Mhugdoc said:
Best glue to keep magnet in planetary gear?
Epoxy work?
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I used clear Gorilla glue, but any strong glue or epoxy should work fine. There is a lot of surface area for bonding. Put the glue along the edges of the magnet as well for extra strength.
 
TPP said:
will this fit on a 2019 Kenevo?
Click to expand...

I did a little research and it looks like the 2019 Kenevo uses the same hubs and brake rotors as the 2019 Levo? Does the magnet mount in the same way as the 2019 Levo with the sensor in the same spot? If so, that would mean the parts should fit so the only question would be the frame clearance. In an earlier post I described the frame clearances needed to fit so someone with one could measure.
 
Hello.
I will also test it, really great stuff!

The shipment to germany is from the Netherlands? I hate problems with the customs. :p
 
My LSS is shipped from the Netherlands, just a few bucks on top and the delivery is end of januar. :p
 
@2manytickets, have you been able to get yours installed yet? It sounds like a few others of you should be receiving the LSS soon :)
 
jd_3d said:
Part IV

I switched my brake rotor bolts to Titanium as the magnet was being attracted to the steel bolts and causing some noise. Throughout the design process I had noise issues where you could hear the gears making faint sounds. Finally I realized I could print the planetary gear in a soft TPU-like material which should quiet things down significantly. It ended up working great and now I cannot hear the gears at all when riding the bike. I think with the latest design the steel bolts would be fine.

The final prototype has a dust cover which also makes it more stealth. In my design the dust cover is slightly short because I still wanted to see the planetary gear so I knew it was working properly.

Final design w/ dust cover:
View attachment 9025

Final design with dust cover hidden. Note I realized the planetary gear would be kept in place by the magnetic attraction to the steel brake rotor, so that saved on some complexity compared to earlier designs:
View attachment 9026

A photo of the latest version on my bike:

View attachment 9027

A few photos showing the tight clearances. I'm right up to the limit in several areas:
View attachment 9028View attachment 9029

Here's a short video showing the gear reduction. Notice the yellow piece of tape on the rotor and the small white gear in the gearbox aligned with it. After 1 rotation of the wheel you can see the planetary gear has only rotated about 2/3 of the way:


Here is a video of it in action:


Review
I've put about 50 miles on this latest prototype (V14) and the best thing I can say is I don't even know it's there. I don't hear it or feel it, but I can go faster and I think that's all you really want in a device like this. I live in California so I don't ride in muddy or wet conditions so I'm not sure how it would hold up, but I do think that area of the bike must be one of the least prone to get muddy (as all the mud is expelled away from the tires). Maybe someone who rides in the wet could answer, do you find that your brake rotor bolts are covered in mud after a ride?

Anyway, that's it for now. Maybe in Part V I could discuss options for building/selling these to some of you as I've already been PMed about that. If you are interested drop a quick note, that would help me understand if its worth pursing.
Click to expand...

So I did not realize your hub was larger than mine. I have the 2019 Levo expert. The hub is black and smaller than what you’re showing. So the inner gear is just wobbly. No worky.
Help.

image.jpg
 
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(updated for more accurate naming of parts)
First-time poster, hello to all. Reading this thread has been great fun and thanks to JD_3d for all this incredible work.

So my LSS arrived yesterday, looked great out of the box and there was no need for any sanding or filing as far as I could see. This morning I had some fun trying to install the LSS, here is my experience so far installing on a Levo 2019 Expert:

1. Removed wheel from bike and removed magnet from rotor - pretty straight forward

2. Glued the magnet into LSS small planetary gear with super glue.

3. After some fiddling managed to clip LSS 'Clip' and 'Ring Gear' to the rotor, then inserted the 'Sun Gear' over the hub. All seemed OK except there was a lot of play between the Sun Gear gear around the hub. Immediately I saw this would be problematic as the planetary gear mechanism needs a close fit and the Sun Gear should not rotate on the hub. The Cover was also very loose around the hub.

4. Optimistically I installed the 2 rotor bolts, and got the wheel back on and went for a short ride and took the Garmin for speed measurement. I could not get it over 25kmh which surprised me as I thought it would either a) not work at all or (b) be all weird, or c) work well and let me ride at 35kmh +.

So maybe I've done something really silly but is it possible the hub diameter is much
smaller on the expert model?

issue1.png


issue2.png






.. my mate has the Turbo Levo Comp so will try on his bike on the weekend.

Not sure if this is relevant
S-Works Turbo Levo - REAR HUB Roval Traverse SL, DT Swiss Star Ratchet, 54t engagement, SRAM XD driver body, 12mm thru-axle, 148mm spacing, 28h

Turbo Levo Expert - REAR HUB DT Swiss 360, 3-pawl design, SRAM XD driver body, 12mm thru-axle, 148mm spacing, 28h

Turbo Levo Comp Carbon - REAR HUB Specialized, sealed cartridge bearings, 12x148mm thru-axle, 28h

Turbo Levo - REAR HUB Specialized, sealed cartridge bearings, 12x148mm thru-axle, 28h
 
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MattyG said:
3. After some fiddling managed to clip LSS to the rotor, then inserted the other parts of the LSS assembly which seemed OK except there was a lot of play around the hub. Immediately I saw this would be problematic as the planetary gear mechanism needs a close fit.

4. Optimistically I installed the 2 rotor bolts, and got the wheel back on and went for a short ride and took the Garmin for speed measurement. I could not get it over 25kmh which surprised me as I thought it would either a) not work at all or (b) be all weird, or c) work well and let me ride at 35kmh +.

So maybe I've done something really silly but is it possible the hub diameter is much smaller on the expert model?
Click to expand...

Hi MattyG, welcome to the forum! I realized I need a picture that shows the name of each part as this should make it less confusing when referring to a specific piece so I just did that here:

LSS_assembly.jpg

Based on your description it sounds like the sun gear is not sitting tight to the wheel hub, is that correct? Is it slightly loose, or really loose? If it is only slightly loose could you wrap a layer of electrical tape on the hub to make it a tight fit? There should be no sliding between the sun gear and the hub. The cover also mounts to the hub so is it also loose?

Now that I think about it, if the sun gear is able to rotate on the hub it would negate the gear reduction and I think you would be left with the usual speed limit so maybe that is what's happening here. If you have any pictures that could help as well.
 
Mattyg
See the post above yours. I have the expert and had the exact same problem.
I went to Lowe’s and picked up some #10 o-rings. I placed about 8 or 10 on over the hub then put the inner gear on over the o-rings. This created the right fit and worked great. I even had to put one over the dust cover as it doesn’t fit snug like it does on the comp.
Good luck!
 
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