GOBAO ECVT EMTB Mid-Drive Motor

[slickrock]

Getting a separate thread started for this new ECVT Motor to differentiate from the Avinox Gearbox announcement.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first...emtb-arms-race-with-a-1500-w-150-nm-ecvt.html

There's quite a bit to unpack here and not just the motor. Will give full take later.

[Edit: Actual Review of the motor: Revolutionary Gobao X1P Gearbox Motor Review: Is This the Future of eMTB Drive Systems?]

 

[TheKaiser]

View attachment 187329

Getting a separate thread started for this new ECVT Motor to differentiate from the Avinox Gearbox announcement.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first...emtb-arms-race-with-a-1500-w-150-nm-ecvt.html

There's quite a bit to unpack here and not just the motor. Will give full take later.

Looking forward to hearing your take on this thing!

 

[Brawwp]

So sick! It’s a good time to be an emtber

 

[htc]

Really exciting news. On the other hand, wonder if Intradrive and their GD8 are being trumped before they had a chance to get off the ground...

 

[slickrock]

Really exciting news. On the other hand, wonder if Intradrive and their GD8 are being trumped before they had a chance to get off the ground...

Sorry to say that their days are probably numbered to occupy a chunk of the MGU space using spur-gearbox tech like Pinion. They did a few interesting things like reduce the number of gears and range to get the system lighter, and using the same mounts as Shimano EP8 is interesting in the past, but not now as Shimano has waned as a goto motor. I visited the Intradrive both and they appeared eager at Sea Otter to secure suitors for their platform, but will likely be crowded out this time at Eurobike with the Avinox MG and now this ECVT motor, not to mention Owuru's E2 ECVT motor demoed last year.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It's getting quite wild in this space, and quickly.

 

[Nomadic Dad]

Sounds like an amazing development but the downtube on bikes with this needs to be thinner like the Avinox bikes than that demo bike to maximise uptake.

Looking forward to seeing the dimensions and form factor of their batteries. Interesting times for sure.

I'm also very pleased I haven't bought an M2S bike just quite yet and decided to ride my Kenevo for at least one last season and see where things are later in the year.

 

[Powerslider]

Always being in the right ‘gear’ does sound really attractive in theory. Success is going to come down to the execution.

 

[Rando_12345]

Sounds like an amazing development but the downtube on bikes with this needs to be thinner like the Avinox bikes than that demo bike to maximise uptake.

Looking forward to seeing the dimensions and form factor of their batteries. Interesting times for sure.

While I agree they should take note of the success of Avinox with their long and thin batteries, that demo bike is one of the best looking demo bikes I have seen, looks like a finished Yeti product!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I rode the motor, its very very good - video out today! (basic carpark ride, but got a good feeling for it)

 

[Fangs2k]

I rode the motor, its very very good - video out today! (basic carpark ride, but got a good feeling for it)

I think I remember the Pinion car park ride video you did, hopefully the GOBAO makes it to a few brands.

Interesting how they’ve been quietly getting on with things and it’s slipped out the door.

 

[slickrock]

I rode the motor, its very very good - video out today! (basic carpark ride, but got a good feeling for it)

How was in comparison to the Avinox MG in terms of pedal feel, power delivery, auto modes, manual modes, software? The dream is finally coming true.

 

[shmulik]

View attachment 187329

View attachment 187332

Getting a separate thread started for this new ECVT Motor to differentiate from the Avinox Gearbox announcement.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first...emtb-arms-race-with-a-1500-w-150-nm-ecvt.html

There's quite a bit to unpack here and not just the motor. Will give full take later.

[Edit: Actual Review of the motor: Revolutionary Gobao X1P Gearbox Motor Review: Is This the Future of eMTB Drive Systems?]

Pity Revonte didn't make it. I thought they had the most promising concept.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

How was in comparison to the Avinox MG in terms of pedal feel, power delivery, auto modes, manual modes, software? The dream is finally coming true.

More finalised id say but unfair to rate them both together because they both are work in progress

 

[slickrock]

Pity Revonte didn't make it. I thought they had the most promising concept.

Agreed. They had the ECVT idea out first. Then again, never did find out exactly what company bought out their IP.

Then Villeger with an integrated tensioner (crickets for two years now). Then there's Owuru/E2 last year, but don't look to be at Eurobike this year.

 

[Rando_12345]

Never really thought about regen braking, but that could be one of the bigger deals if implemented in a nice way, e.g. set a default regen rate at the start of ride to account for terrain from 0 to say 30%, and a system for engaging and disengaging it naturally (e.g. 0 regen for x seconds after any quarter turn of the cranks). You could maybe offset the MGU efficiency loses, but also significantly reduce brake overheating, pad wear and maybe arm fatigue.

 

[slickrock]

Never really thought about regen braking, but that could be one of the bigger deals if implemented in a nice way, e.g. set a default regen rate at the start of ride to account for terrain from 0 to say 30%, and a system for engaging and disengaging it naturally (e.g. 0 regen for x seconds after any quarter turn of the cranks). You could maybe offset the MGU efficiency loses, but also significantly reduce brake overheating, pad wear and maybe arm fatigue.

I got to see this perfectly implemented with Rivian/ALSO TM-B. Regen there is implemented through ABS braking, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. What's good about this is that is you control the regen through deliberate braking decisions.

Having some kind of regen that occurs only when you stop pedaling would be disadvantageous because there are times when you need to stop pedaling to negotiate rocks and other trail obstacle or balancing into turns, where the bike would slow down from regen in an unwanted way. I'm not sure how Avinox is going to approach this but I sure hope it's the way Rivian did it.

 

[Mario Antony]

Well no one is talking about, but I like their Batteries and 30A charger!

500 Wh - 2.6 kg - charges to 80% in 24 minutes
• 750 Wh - 3.6 kg - charges to 80% in 28 minutes (basically a 625Wh Bosch battery)
• 900 Wh - 3.7 kg - charges to 80% in 32 minutes (700grm lighter than a 750Wh Bosch Battery!)

But charging at 30A, would MOST OF US (previously was anyon8e, but as per Zimmerframe, it seems some trees around his location, don't have socket.) need more than 500Wh?...

 

[Zimmerframe]

But charging at 30A, would anyone need more than 500Wh?

Sadly, most trees don't have a socket for charging ..

 

[slickrock]

Sadly, most trees don't have a socket for charging ..

Then again you just coast back downhill and recharge your battery

 

[Rando_12345]

Well no one is talking about, but I like their Batteries and 30A charger!

500 Wh - 2.6 kg - charges to 80% in 24 minutes
• 750 Wh - 3.6 kg - charges to 80% in 28 minutes (basically a 625Wh Bosch battery)
• 900 Wh - 3.7 kg - charges to 80% in 32 minutes (700grm lighter than a 750Wh Bosch Battery!)

But charging at 30A, would MOST OF US (previously was anyone, but as per Zimmerframe, it seems some trees around his location, don't have socket.) need more than 500Wh?

Would take the biggest battery option, especially if removable batteries are on the way out. Bigger range, less cycles used over time.

Battery weight will get less important with heavy MGUs.

 

[Fangs2k]

Would take the biggest battery option, especially if removable batteries are on the way out. Bigger range, less cycles used over time.

Battery weight will get less important with heavy MGUs.

Whilst I like the idea of taking 750g of unsprung weight from the rear wheel, I think MGUs and the ongoing power race will kill off the idea of e-mtb bikes getting any lighter.

Especially with the batteries required to power them for any sensible amount of time.

Slim downtube giving the impression of a light bike but the reality being something that weighs the same as a supertanker with a hold full of Moons…

We need some lighter battery developments I think, not just faster charge times.

 

[htc]

Whilst I like the idea of taking 750g of unsprung weight from the rear wheel, I think MGUs and the ongoing power race will kill off the idea of e-mtb bikes getting any lighter.

Especially with the batteries required to power them for any sensible amount of time.

Slim downtube giving the impression of a light bike but the reality being something that weighs the same as a supertanker with a hold full of Moons…

We need some lighter battery developments I think, not just faster charge times.

the gobao rideable prototype was quoted at 20.4kg by ebike-mtb.com

 

[Fangs2k]

the gobao rideable prototype was quoted at 20.4kg by ebike-mtb.com

Which is pretty competitive to be fair, depending on battery and tyres etc.

It was more that we started to think 19kg ish was achievable for a ‘full power’ e-bike with 800Wh battery, and now even allowing for deletion of the derailleur, cassette and chain with talk of 950Wh batteries and the MGUs themselves we’re going the other way. Hence why lighter batteries would be a ‘break through’.

I enjoy riding my SL not for its lack of power, but because of its relative nimbleness and ease of lifting over fences and other trail obstacles etc.

Just an observation.

 

[Red Peekay]

Interesting times to be in this space. And of course this has just been mooted now that I've thrown down on a new Dread-e. Just had to happen didn't it .

I guess that's the thing about tech, you're always chasing your tail. That new big thing is always just around the next corner. How long do you hold off?

Sigh..

 

[htc]

Which is pretty competitive to be fair, depending on battery and tyres etc.

It was more that we started to think 19kg ish was achievable for a ‘full power’ e-bike with 800Wh battery, and now even allowing for deletion of the derailleur, cassette and chain with talk of 950Wh batteries and the MGUs themselves we’re going the other way. Hence why lighter batteries would be a ‘break through’.

I enjoy riding my SL not for its lack of power, but because of its relative nimbleness and ease of lifting over fences and other trail obstacles etc.

Just an observation.

Yeah as someone who lives on a smallish island and occasionally flies with my bike, weight becomes very relevant at times. Then that brings in removable batteries, which was a feature of the pinion mgu bikes that I liked... Hopefully one of the players does removable batteries

 

[Rando_12345]

My point about weight is mostly:

If you have a sub 2kg motor giving out a medim amount of power, by all means try to get the overall weigth down with a 400-600Wh battery to get a ~4kg system weight.

For a full power MGU/ECVT with ~4kg of motor, the bike isn't going to ride dramatically different whether you put a 4kg or 3kg battery.

I guess full power E-bikes are going to plateau in the 20-22kg (full enduro build) regardless of further improvements: frames like the Unno and Orbea can't get any lighter, full power motors will stick to the 2-2.6kg range (I assume physics + costs are limiting factor here), batteries might gain 10% every couple of years, but I think that will partially be offset by bigger packs.

 

[jeanjean]

Biggest gains on weight are on the biker rather than on the bike

 

[Zimmerframe]

 

[caper11]

Getting a bit much if you ask me. Cog belts are less efficient then chains, they are less durable then a chain. The CVT will also make the battery drain more do to the internal parts, and the maintenance will be alot higher. I bet that bike also has a throttle option. To each their own.