foot ache

[Mr President]

I used to ride spd shoes and pedals, but for last 10 years have been using flats with fiveten freeriders. When I rode acoustic bikes my only complaint was how wet they got. Apart from when I rode at a bike park, then the arches of my feet really ached (same when I tried reverting back to spds).
I am guessing I need a stiffer sole and better shaped inserts. I have tried using ski boot inserts, but same problem.
Now I have an EMTB so am doing way more descending than before and suffering foot arch ache more frequently.
I am looking for a shoe and insert that is supportive enough for my poor arches whilst still gripping pedals.
Note this isn't a thread on clipless versus flats and also not about fiveten becoming adidas! Also if you never had the problem then you probably won't have a solution for it.
I just want to know if someone suffered from my issue and found a solution with any pedal/show combination?
Thanks

 

[Pdoz]

I'm not sure a stiffer sole will help - I think clipless shoes are stiffer in the arch than the equivalent flats ( at least five ten freerider pros are )

There are lots of variables and feet are pretty complicated structures, eg Do you ride on the balls or the arch when heading down? Heels down for traction? High arch or flat feet? Dancing around like a ballerina, or ploughing through like a bull?

I hate to type this, but Gary makes sense when he talks about softer shoes. Do some research into the " barefoot" shoe trend, eg xero shoes - getting the intrinsic muscles working etc. I'm not suggesting going that far, but moving your foot around and building some muscles up in the foot might help? ( I'm coming from the background of multiple foot fractures and taking up mtb riding to regain foot function)

 

[The Hodge]

Have you talked to your GP regarding an appointment at your local orthotic department ..?

 

[Mr President]

Have you talked to your GP regarding an appointment at your local orthotic department ..?

that's a thought. it's only a problem when i ride mtb downhill, so cynic in me thinks i might just be told to get another hobby.
i had a road bike fit recently and should have raised it then. the fitter did try some carbon insoles in my road shoes, but since they made no difference he said not to waste the money. However, the road shoes are stiff as... in any case. maybe they could work with mtb.

 

[Mr President]

I'm not sure a stiffer sole will help - I think clipless shoes are stiffer in the arch than the equivalent flats ( at least five ten freerider pros are )

There are lots of variables and feet are pretty complicated structures, eg Do you ride on the balls or the arch when heading down? Heels down for traction? High arch or flat feet? Dancing around like a ballerina, or ploughing through like a bull?

I hate to type this, but Gary makes sense when he talks about softer shoes. Do some research into the " barefoot" shoe trend, eg xero shoes - getting the intrinsic muscles working etc. I'm not suggesting going that far, but moving your foot around and building some muscles up in the foot might help? ( I'm coming from the background of multiple foot fractures and taking up mtb riding to regain foot function)

ride on the balls - heels down as much as i can on the descents. definitely ploughing!
will look at the barefoot solution to see if I get some inspiration.
never been told i have flat feet or high arches or anything in particular. at 95Kg in my pants I am overweight and putting a lot of pressure through my arches.

 

[anfos]

A stiff sole would certainly help, companies like Shimano have a stiffness index to help with choice.
I cannot pedal with a soft shoe meaning my legs/feet dynamics require a stiff sole to not have issues.

Check out a shoe like the Shimano ET5 if you can test them out.

 

[Mr President]

A stiff sole would certainly help, companies like Shimano have a stiffness index to help with choice.
I cannot pedal with a soft shoe meaning my legs/feet dynamics require a stiff sole to not have issues.

Check out a shoe like the Shimano ET5 if you can test them out.

thanks will take a look

 

[Mr President]

in a road cycling post I found an insert called G8 2620. has adjustable levels of support. very tempted to try, but it does cost same as a pair of shoes. Still if it helps me enjoy riding it is worth a punt

 

[anfos]

It won't help if the shoe itself is soft like the ones you are using. It will just flex along with the sole and offer no support. The G8's are made for stiff soles.

 

[Mr President]

It won't help if the shoe itself is soft like the ones you are using. It will just flex along with the sole and offer no support. The G8's are made for stiff soles.

Ah OK understood

 

[Mr President]

Ah OK understood

It won't help if the shoe itself is soft like the ones you are using. It will just flex along with the sole and offer no support. The G8's are made for stiff soles.

you just got to me in time, as i was about to blow 80 quid

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

hmm, not sure it would be your problem but I had really painful feet when riding flats and then I changed my shoes to something with a D3O sole, worked a treat and no issues at all since

 

[Zimmerframe]

I often get really sore foot soles when descending. I think I try to move my feet around - possibly curl them in terror or something - like foot death grip.

Been running Shimano SH-GR700's for a couple of years and whilst I like them, I've started to wonder if the shoe doesn't exacerbate the problem because the sole is so stiff, so the foot can't flex (and often have @Gary's voice in my head, which must be way better than hearing Gary's voice when you're in bed) ...

Tried a pair of old trainers for an 80k 2100m ride last weekend and didn't notice my feet hurting at all .. so whilst the same problem/solution won't suit everyone - I think I need to try more flexible footware for a few rides - though I want something with protected toe's as I'm riding with a broken toe from a rock fling to the front of the Shimano's and they're pretty tough in the toe already.

 

[Zimmerframe]

hmm, not sure it would be your problem but I had really painful feet when riding flats and then I changed my shoes to something with a D3O sole, worked a treat and no issues at all since

What did you go for @dobbyhasfriends ??

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

What did you go for @dobbyhasfriends ??

Ride Concepts Power line mate.. brilliant shoes, cant fault em

Ride Concepts Powerline MTB Shoes - Charcoal/Orange

MTB shoes featuring a precision fit, rugged construction, and careful consideration to detail.

www.certini.co.uk

 

[Mr President]

Ride Concepts Power line mate.. brilliant shoes, cant fault em

Ride Concepts Powerline MTB Shoes - Charcoal/Orange

MTB shoes featuring a precision fit, rugged construction, and careful consideration to detail.

www.certini.co.uk

hmmm very interesting. orange - a bit like my bike. screw the foot pain - matching shoes might sell it.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

hmmm very interesting. orange - a bit like my bike. screw the foot pain - matching shoes might sell it.

Im always a little hesitant to recommend stuff because every one is different but your story is very similar to mine with the pain etc. I also had pain and numbness when using SPD's but I think thats because all the shoes are so impossibly thin and the soles so bloody hard. the ride concepts were immediately noticeably more comfortable, less fatiguing and the biggest thing is the fact that you dont seem to get any trail chatter up through the pedals in anywhere near the same severity.
they are that good that im gonna buy another pair of livewires for everyday use cos im finding that i wear the powerlines just to go out and about and I dont care how stupid they look socially cos its like walking on clouds..

 

[RickBullotta]

So if it was a sore back, sore forearms, or some other body part, you probably wouldn't change your clothing and hope for a magic fix. Yeah, I know that's a stretch of a metaphor, but hear me out. If you're doing a motion/position on the bike for a couple hours when downhilling that you never train for or rarely experience otherwise, what's the likely outcome? Fatigue and pain. There actually are exercises to strengthen arches and to improve overall foot/ankle/calf strength. Add to that some stretching, and that's the way I'd try to attack it. Insoles can help if you have a structural issue with unusually high arches or flat feet, but I'd start with the assumption that the muscles that you're using to grip and move around on the bike are just weaker than they need to be. The FiveTen's are a well respected shoe, so I'm not sure that's the issue unless they're too loose or too tight.

 

[Zimmerframe]

if you have a structural issue with unusually high feet

I can assure you, my feet, like 83% of the human race - are at the bottom of my legs.

 

[Mr President]

So if it was a sore back, sore forearms, or some other body part, you probably wouldn't change your clothing and hope for a magic fix. Yeah, I know that's a stretch of a metaphor, but hear me out. If you're doing a motion/position on the bike for a couple hours when downhilling that you never train for or rarely experience otherwise, what's the likely outcome? Fatigue and pain. There actually are exercises to strengthen arches and to improve overall foot/ankle/calf strength. Add to that some stretching, and that's the way I'd try to attack it. Insoles can help if you have a structural issue with unusually high arches or flat feet, but I'd start with the assumption that the muscles that you're using to grip and move around on the bike are just weaker than they need to be. The FiveTen's are a well respected shoe, so I'm not sure that's the issue unless they're too loose or too tight.

you raise a good point. but i do tend towards quick fixes where i can get them. after my bike fit i was given a list of stretches and exercises to do. Man I was hoping that the bike fit would save me all that. Humour aside i do need to think more hillistically, but as the free riders are 10 years old and due a replacement I will try a pair of the ride concepts too.

Thanks to you all for your input. I will let you know if things improve

 

[Mr President]

you raise a good point. but i do tend towards quick fixes where i can get them. after my bike fit i was given a list of stretches and exercises to do. Man I was hoping that the bike fit would save me all that. Humour aside i do need to think more hillistically, but as the free riders are 10 years old and due a replacement I will try a pair of the ride concepts too.

Thanks to you all for your input. I will let you know if things improve

hillistically? downhillistically I guess

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

So if it was a sore back, sore forearms, or some other body part, you probably wouldn't change your clothing and hope for a magic fix. Yeah, I know that's a stretch of a metaphor, but hear me out. If you're doing a motion/position on the bike for a couple hours when downhilling that you never train for or rarely experience otherwise, what's the likely outcome? Fatigue and pain. There actually are exercises to strengthen arches and to improve overall foot/ankle/calf strength. Add to that some stretching, and that's the way I'd try to attack it. Insoles can help if you have a structural issue with unusually high arches or flat feet, but I'd start with the assumption that the muscles that you're using to grip and move around on the bike are just weaker than they need to be. The FiveTen's are a well respected shoe, so I'm not sure that's the issue unless they're too loose or too tight.

yea thats a fair point, I already do a lot of work on my calves and feet since I had plantar faciatis, dont mean that the change of shoes didnt help a lot of course because they did and I wouldnt class quality footwear as a 'magic fix' - since I had problems with my feet ive also had to buy really good quality workboots as thats what I spend most of my time in and that has made a big difference to the overall pain and tiredness of my feet as well.

 

[Pdoz]

you raise a good point. but i do tend towards quick fixes where i can get them. after my bike fit i was given a list of stretches and exercises to do. Man I was hoping that the bike fit would save me all that. Humour aside i do need to think more hillistically, but as the free riders are 10 years old and due a replacement I will try a pair of the ride concepts too.

Thanks to you all for your input. I will let you know if things improve

Before adding another variable by replacing the shoes - go get some professional advice., Start with a sports medicine doc?

The quick fix might seem easier, but it also might send you down the wrong path - hiding rather than fixing the problem.

 

[flash]

I am not saying this is your solution but for me moving my foot forward on the pedal sorted out my foot and calf pain. I used to ride on the road and had my cleat set on the ball of the foot. When placing my foot in the same position on long downhill stretches on my eMTB my foot and calf muscle got very sore but I was OK when pedaling. Moving my foot position forward so the pedal axle was slightly behind the ball did the trick and I have zero pain riding. Basically I was over stretching my achillies. Same pedals. Same shoes. Worth a try before you spend money?

Gordon

 

[Mikerb]

I suggest you merely position your foot on the pedal differently. If you ride on the balls of your feet on rough ground your arches are bound to be taking a lot of strain. I ride with my foot much further forward and that coupled with decent sized pedals means a greater proportion of my foot is supported by the pedal and it is a far more secure foot to pedal grip especially downhill.
I don't concur either with the heels down mantra. If you are riding behind the bb you will quite naturally angle the pedals down at the back without stretching calf muscles and achilles.

 

[rod9301]

ride on the balls - heels down as much as i can on the descents. definitely ploughing!
will look at the barefoot solution to see if I get some inspiration.
never been told i have flat feet or high arches or anything in particular. at 95Kg in my pants I am overweight and putting a lot of pressure through my arches.

Try riding with the arch over the pedal spindle.

The over the ball of your foot position never made sense.

 

[Pdoz]

The over the ball of your foot position never made sense.

Feet can articulate in multiple directions , so if you like to dance across the trail it makes a lot of sense . Think pop vs plough .

I chased a decent x country rider down a black run recently, he was on a light hard tail and magical to watch - launching off things that I couldn't even feel

 

[Black8917]

My feet use to cramp really bad down stuff like showtime showdown in darrington or steep DH trails. I bought some Dr. scholles and it 100% fixed my issues. I buy a new pair of 5-10 pro that are pretty stiff too.
Definitely try inserts I bought the green ones for my MTB shoes and snowboard boots and was night and day difference.

 

[Black8917]

Also I bought tenant pedals that are bigger that helped too.

 

[B1rdie]

Inserts made by a orthopedic professional and stiff soles will asure that the bone structure of thr feet are at the right position when you exercise the muscles while riding.
I was looking for a solution for an hallux valgo (big toe angles inwards) and found out I actually have one leg 1,2 cm longer. The inserts helped with that and also gabe better support to the arch of the feet.
The doctor confirmed that the stiffness of the sole of the five ten guide tennis (the ones that they still sell for hiking and climbing) is good.