E160 900E gearing change

Did you have to do anything with your chain? Meaning is there enough play the spring loading in the derailer to accommodate the extra couple of teeth?
Can't see anything in the thread with dramas relating to chain length so just went and ordered a snail 36T.
Thanks for the heads up on the bolts HORSPWR, will be sure to check all of that when I chuck on the new sprocket, cheers Steve
 
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Husky430 said:
Did you have to do anything with your chain? Meaning is there enough play the spring loading in the derailer to accommodate the extra couple of teeth?
Can't see anything in the thread with dramas relating to chain length so just went and ordered a snail 36T.
Thanks for the heads up on the bolts HORSPWR, will be sure to check all of that when I chuck on the new sprocket, cheers Steve
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No I just put the bike in the largest and then the smallest cogs on the back and moved the DR by hand and there was still more movement left in it so I reckoned it would be fine with the extra two teeth.
You can get to the motor bolts with the chain ring in place but you can only do it with one of those ball end allen keys and as such you can't use a torque wrench. Much easier to do when you have the chainring off. Chainring bolts (Shimano Steel) are 7.9 - 10.7 Nm, originally mine were not very tight at all, I put a dab of blue Loctite on mine and did them up to 9Nm with the new chainring.

Handy bike torque spec chart here
 
Hey thanks for that, especially the torque chart. I have a small torque wrench from doing dirt bike work so that will do nicely. Riding tomorrow with a bloke from this forum who has already fitted a 36 tooth onto a 900 so will be interesting to do a side by side comparison.
 
Hey Steve i fitted my 36T on Monday but haven't ridden with it yet. You can take a look tomorrow.

I did notice the chain line on the new ring is slightly offset, probably about 1mm further away from the frame. I found that there's no real fitment issue but i did need to move the chain guide up a position due to the larger diameter - there is 2 mounting positions. Also due to the 1-2mm that the chain line moves out i found the chain to be touching the guide ever so slightly to the side of the chain so i applied some light force to bend the bracket out a hair to increase clearance.

Other observation is that the chain sits a lot "tighter" on the chain ring as the teeth are a little wider and more of a full/square shape. There's a little bit of noise from the friction between the chain when turning the cranks. I would say after it wears in slightly it will reduce though it doesn't seem an issue.

Don't add grease to the motor mounts. Putting grease under the heads will reduce the friction/bite which helps the bolts hold tension. There should be no movement when everything is tight and If there is creaking that means something is loose and moving about
 
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Awesome, looking forward, as I said to HORSPWR, for a side by side comparo tomorrow. Will be interesting as can't say that I ever really get into the largest back cog.
 
Husky430 said:
Awesome, looking forward, as I said to HORSPWR, for a side by side comparo tomorrow. Will be interesting as can't say that I ever really get into the largest back cog.
Click to expand...

The only reason I fitted my 36T was because I was rarely using the top 4 largest back sprockets and I was mindful that I might wear out the smaller cogs prematurely if I didn't try and get more time up in the larger ones.
 
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Dan63 said:
Hey Steve i fitted my 36T on Monday but haven't ridden with it yet. You can take a look tomorrow.

I did notice the chain line on the new ring is slightly offset, probably about 1mm further away from the frame. I found that there's no real fitment issue but i did need to move the chain guide up a position due to the larger diameter - there is 2 mounting positions. Also due to the 1-2mm that the chain line moves out i found the chain to be touching the guide ever so slightly to the side of the chain so i applied some light force to bend the bracket out ever so slightly to increase clearance.

Other observation is that the chain sits a lot "tighter" on the chain ring as the teeth are a little wider and more of a full/square shape. There's a little bit of noise from the friction between the chain when turning the cranks. I would say after it wears in slightly it will reduce though it doesn't seem an issue.

Don't add grease to the motor mounts. Putting grease under the heads will reduce the friction/bite which helps the bolts hold tension. There should be no movement when everything is tight and If there is creaking that means something is loose and moving about
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My chain guide was already in the upper most position (38T) so I left it there but did need to rotate it back a freckle towards the rear wheel so the rubber slider just cleared the underside of the chain. I did notice that the chainline would be out by a mil or so but wasn't perturbed by this, I was fortunate though it didn't rub.

If I had the correct tool (Shimano chainring lock ring tool) I would've removed the whole chain guide and back plate as my last 4 MTBs that were 1x drivetrains never had a chainguide and I never dropped a chain ever.

I'll be taking mine out for a good 20 odd ks this afternoon to test out.
 
Oh so I need a special tool to change the sprocket? (Shimano chainring lock ring tool) What does one of those look like if you can send a pic please?
 
Husky430 said:
Oh so I need a special tool to change the sprocket? (Shimano chainring lock ring tool) What does one of those look like if you can send a pic please?
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No, no special tool needed to do just the sprocket, the special tool I was referring to is to remove the chain ring spider lock ring as the chainguide back plate sits behind it if you ever want to remove it.

All I had to take off was my pedal as I have large platform crank brothers stamp 7 pedals, smaller pedals may fit through the new chainring hole though. The chain guide upper head piece is two pieces and comes off with just undoing the one bolt, unclutch the rear DR and drop the chain off, easy.
 
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Dan63 said:
Hey Steve i fitted my 36T on Monday but haven't ridden with it yet. You can take a look tomorrow.

I did notice the chain line on the new ring is slightly offset, probably about 1mm further away from the frame. I found that there's no real fitment issue but i did need to move the chain guide up a position due to the larger diameter - there is 2 mounting positions. Also due to the 1-2mm that the chain line moves out i found the chain to be touching the guide ever so slightly to the side of the chain so i applied some light force to bend the bracket out a hair to increase clearance.

Other observation is that the chain sits a lot "tighter" on the chain ring as the teeth are a little wider and more of a full/square shape. There's a little bit of noise from the friction between the chain when turning the cranks. I would say after it wears in slightly it will reduce though it doesn't seem an issue.

Don't add grease to the motor mounts. Putting grease under the heads will reduce the friction/bite which helps the bolts hold tension. There should be no movement when everything is tight and If there is creaking that means something is loose and moving about
Click to expand...

Just to update, I had some annoying creaking going on when I was seated and pedalling with some effort. It was a bit hard to pinpoint exactly where it was coming from, so I spent the entire afternoon on the weekend and re-greased everything, starting at the front.

Firstly pulled the fork steerer tube out and re-greased the bearings and cups/seals.

Pulled every suspension joint apart and re-greased under the heads and the shafts of all the bolts, blue Loctite went on all the threads and re-torqued to spec.

Pulled the motor bolts and applied a smidge of grease under the heads and blue Loctite to the threads and re-torqued to spec.

Also applied a smidge of grease to the three plastic areas that hold the battery in place.

Tested and totally quiet.

I added grease to the motor bolt heads because I figured that if I grease my front and rear axles including the threads and heads and they don't come loose then why would the motor bolts (plus they have Loctite on the threads anyway). Also another decider was that from my years of building engines, all internal bolts, main bearings, head studs/bolts, conrod bolts etc must be assembled with oil on the threads and under the heads to achieve proper torque and even those never come loose!

The grease I use on bolts is a ceramic synthetic hi-temp waterproof grease, not much is required. For the head stem I used Valvoline heavy duty waterproof wheel bearing grease.
 
Nice work HORSPWR, not noticed any of squeaks on mine yet but will do some of what you did when I replace my front sprocket.
I've only got about 650km on mine so not sure how many you have on yours and if I'm yet to experience that.
Great run down on what to do with a bit of spare time.
Had a great ride on Saturday with 3 ebikes and a couple of organically power ones. One of the blokes who has a E160 900 on order but who was riding a hard tail that day and doing it a bit tougher than the rest, so I gave a go on mine.
He came out with the classic line, RIDING AN EBIKE IS LIKE RIDING DOWN HILL ALL THE TIME, I couldn't stop laughing as I think he's hit the nail on the head.
 
Husky430 said:
Nice work HORSPWR, not noticed any of squeaks on mine yet but will do some of what you did when I replace my front sprocket.
I've only got about 650km on mine so not sure how many you have on yours and if I'm yet to experience that.
Great run down on what to do with a bit of spare time.
Had a great ride on Saturday with 3 ebikes and a couple of organically power ones. One of the blokes who has a E160 900 on order but who was riding a hard tail that day and doing it a bit tougher than the rest, so I gave a go on mine.
He came out with the classic line, RIDING AN EBIKE IS LIKE RIDING DOWN HILL ALL THE TIME, I couldn't stop laughing as I think he's hit the nail on the head.
Click to expand...

Snap, my bike ticked over 650km on the weekend ride too. I have an Intense Carbine Pro Build as my organically powered bike which I try and ride every other ride but the fun of the 160 900e is just so addictive and I've noticed that my enthusiasm wains when I get on my Intense and I only ride it half as far which is a bit of a shame as it's only a year old and cost me $8500. I have a motocross and enduro background so I like riding fast and pushing it, especially the limits in corners and the 160 900 ticks the box for this.
 
Yeah me too with the dirt bike background, only took up MTB to get fit for the VMX. Sold my last two vintage bikes to buy the ebike :LOL:. Still got a 300 and a 640 ADV Kato's but I can tell you I'm not using them much!
 
Sprocket arrived last night and followed your instructions and put it on in a jiffy, thanks for that. The only drama was that I couldn't get the chain guide that sits above the sprocket so sit right without it catching on the chain/teeth of sprocket.
Tried placing a washer behind it to space it out a little as was catching on the face of the sprocket which worked. But still couldn't get it to stop touching the little rubber bit at the back towards the rear cassette.
Even loosened off the 3 little allen bolts that hold the guide in place and tried that in a few different positions but to no avail. In the end just took it off completely, took it for a 15km test ride last night and no dramas at all.
Could feel a little difference in the gearing as in it seemed to pull each gear a bit longer, but didn't do any steep climbs, that'll have to wait for the weekend.
Science says that there is a difference of around 4.5% but I'll never be a TEST DRIVER, just don't seem to notice those little differences.
Got a mate who is the opposite, I reckon if a fly landed on his left grip he would feel it pulling to the left :ROFLMAO: but unfortunately, that's not me.
Like the way each second tooth on the sprocket is larger to fit into the different sized holes in between the links, very snug fit and probably why you don't need the chain guide.
Will fill you in more after a more hilly ride on the weekend.
 
Husky430 said:
Sprocket arrived last night and followed your instructions and put it on in a jiffy, thanks for that. The only drama was that I couldn't get the chain guide that sits above the sprocket so sit right without it catching on the chain/teeth of sprocket.
Tried placing a washer behind it to space it out a little as was catching on the face of the sprocket which worked. But still couldn't get it to stop touching the little rubber bit at the back towards the rear cassette.
Even loosened off the 3 little allen bolts that hold the guide in place and tried that in a few different positions but to no avail. In the end just took it off completely, took it for a 15km test ride last night and no dramas at all.
Could feel a little difference in the gearing as in it seemed to pull each gear a bit longer, but didn't do any steep climbs, that'll have to wait for the weekend.
Science says that there is a difference of around 4.5% but I'll never be a TEST DRIVER, just don't seem to notice those little differences.
Got a mate who is the opposite, I reckon if a fly landed on his left grip he would feel it pulling to the left :ROFLMAO: but unfortunately, that's not me.
Like the way each second tooth on the sprocket is larger to fit into the different sized holes in between the links, very snug fit and probably why you don't need the chain guide.
Will fill you in more after a more hilly ride on the weekend.
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My guide fitted back up no problems, put it back in the highest position where it was to begin with and then just rotated it back towards the rear wheel until it went down closer towards the swingarm until I had around 0-1mm clearance but like you say it'll work fine without it. I would have removed mine to if it was easier to get the back plate off.

All my other narrow/wide 1x drive train bikes never had a chainguide and I never ever dropped a chain.
 
HORSPWR said:
If anyone is after a few cool components at reasonable prices with free freight for the e160 900e

Front Axle:
HardLite front thru axle (bicycle skewer) - FOX BOOST stepcast 15mm x 110mm | eBay

Rear Axle:
HardLite rear thru axle (bicycle skewer) - E-Thru boost 12mm x 148-150mm | eBay

Replacement Chainring Narrow/Wide:
HardLite 104 BCD Narrow Wide ChainRing fit Shimano | eBay
Click to expand...
Have you bought either of these axles? My rear is a bit dodgy so i will replace it. Seems to be a lot of different axle thread and length specs available
 
How did you guys go with the ebay chainrings after a few miles? My 36T Snail chainring is about to go in the bin. I've barely ridden my bike since installing it due to injury...probably covered 100-150km. It has worn heavily on the outside of the teeth and is now resulting in chainsuck with a grinding/rumbling noise from the ring that can be felt through the pedals and the chain is bouncing around as it comes off the ring.

Thought the chain might be getting a little worn after 650km, so i popped a new chain on yesterday. The new/tighter chain has made it even worse!

I am unsure if i want to risk $70-80 on a branded alloy chainring for the same thing to happen again!! Though i did think the snail ring was a very tight fit, perhaps just poorly machined?
 
Hey Dan, sorry to hear that you've been out of action due to injury. My Snail chain ring started to nick the chain stay even though there was at least a 1mm of clearance away from it. Took it off and re installed my original chain ring.
As the chain stay moves through its travel arc it actually gets further away from it so I put its catching it down to frame flex, any other theories would be great.
Bought the other brand Decas thinking that maybe it would be slightly smaller but it was exactly the same size. I have filed down all the teeth by about 1mm to 1.5mm on the Snail one and was going to give it another go but unfortunately I thread locked the 4 bolts that hold the chain ring on and can't seem to get them off at the moment, must have used a bit much as did it also when I put the Snail ring on and had no dramas. Have the proper tool for holding the 'nut' at the back of the chain ring coming so will give it another go then as I liked the gearing change, just didn't want to eat through my chain stay.
How worn was your old chain when you replaced it? I've got 1100km on mine and measured it with a mates chain gauge and it's 0.5 whatevers so have a new one on the way. Figure better to replace the chain early rather than the cassette.
 
Not too sure on chain wear % as i don't have a gauge. Measured it the old fashioned way with a ruler/digital gauge and it didn't seem so bad. I clean and lube every 2nd ride so it's always looked after. I've put a kmc x11sl on and kept the old one for a spare. Cassette still looks like new apart from a few dings and nicks from rocks which is good. Eventually I'll swap to a sram 10-42 cassette for a little more top speed.
 
Dan63 said:
How did you guys go with the ebay chainrings after a few miles? My 36T Snail chainring is about to go in the bin. I've barely ridden my bike since installing it due to injury...probably covered 100-150km. It has worn heavily on the outside of the teeth and is now resulting in chainsuck with a grinding/rumbling noise from the ring that can be felt through the pedals and the chain is bouncing around as it comes off the ring.

Thought the chain might be getting a little worn after 650km, so i popped a new chain on yesterday. The new/tighter chain has made it even worse!

I am unsure if i want to risk $70-80 on a branded alloy chainring for the same thing to happen again!! Though i did think the snail ring was a very tight fit, perhaps just poorly machined?
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My Dekas chainring is still going strong, looks to be holding up just as well as any other alloy one I've tried. It's probably got about 300 ks on it now. My chain is worn according the the gauge, the 1.0% slips in easy but that being said it still rides and shifts faultlessly after 960 ks.
 
That's good to know Horspwr, and my chain is in a bit better nick than yours though all that sand out where you are has to take it's toll. I've been using a dry lube (Squirt) pretty much after every ride. Maybe I should hold off putting the new chain on until I hit 0.75 before changing it. Looking forward to giving the 36t sprocket another go though. Be interesting to see how it all goes with the filed down teeth.:LOL:
 
Husky430 said:
That's good to know Horspwr, and my chain is in a bit better nick than yours though all that sand out where you are has to take it's toll. I've been using a dry lube (Squirt) pretty much after every ride. Maybe I should hold off putting the new chain on until I hit 0.75 before changing it. Looking forward to giving the 36t sprocket another go though. Be interesting to see how it all goes with the filed down teeth.:LOL:
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You could see if someone on here has an old crank spindle with 104 BCD spider that they're will to give away, mount the chainring to the assembly and then put it in a lathe and get half a mil machined off, that'll work.

I have Squirt as one of my chain lubes but I don't use it very often as it is ceramic based and I find it a pain to clean off after a while. I mainly use Tri-Flow lube as it really penetrates into the rollers very well.

Tri Flow Superior Lube | Bicycle Oil | SALE - Bicycle Store
 
Hi, I have Merida e-160, XL frame. I use a 38T Shimano chain rings. Its circumference is too large, so I had to use washers, first about + 1 mm, finally it is about + 2 mm, and longer screws. The chain of 116 articles remained original. It was also necessary to slightly adjust the chain guide. Remember to check the screws for tightness after some time.

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Ive run the chain on my e160 to the top ring on the cassette and I cant believe its healthy..it grinds like a coffee machine because the alignment is so far offset from the front ring. I even think it will simply throw the chain off...! What do I know ?
I dont think what you have done can be anything but worse but coming from the motorcycle world, I am happy to be proven wrong...!
 
This chain has done less than 200 miles - This is the amount of lateral flex it has....if it were on any of my motorcycles, I would have binned it ages ago...!!!

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Just as well motorcycles don't have derrailleur operated gears, eh?
 
Stanczech said:
Hi, I have Merida e-160, XL frame. I use a 38T Shimano chain rings. Its circumference is too large, so I had to use washers, first about + 1 mm, finally it is about + 2 mm, and longer screws. The chain of 116 articles remained original. It was also necessary to slightly adjust the chain guide. Remember to check the screws for tightness after some time.

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Are those longer screws some Shimano screws and how long they are ? Original is 10 mm about..
 
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