Dji avinox- Amflow - Discussion

TonTonUB said:
The self-jailing mentality growing in europe, whatever the pro, con, valid statement or not, is overwhelming.

When i was young, the most famous movies were about 'the great escape'.
Nowadays, everyone want to rules / enforce the life of everyone, following its own way of thinking about A, B or C.
And it's incredible how fast ppl self-restrict, because they know someone will, if they dont self restrict on their own.

Insteand of land of freedom, consciouness and self awareness, responsibility, it's jail for everyone.
I guess the next millenial movie will be about 'the great massive jailing, no-escape allowed' ?

25 km/h limit, no throttle, and stey still piss us ?
Someone at bosch , spesh must feel very unsafe, isn't it ?

And as usual, america (through a brand) uses germany (throug other brands) as a trojan horse to ********** everything in Europe.
Wabagadoowah ?

Instead of clownery and engrossing their bike, Spesh had better upgrading SL bike with Dji-like motor (90 Nm, 600 W peak) with ultra slim 700 Wh battery ...
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Fully agree with this,
If I was head of Marketing at Spec I would be dusting off the spec sheets for the SL frame sharply. If it correct that Amlfow have 27000 DJI Motors coming there way, then that’s a big dent in Specs market share.
 
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Plyphon said:
One might argue another side of your job is to produce content that will generate engagement, views and clicks to generate said income ;)

But thanks for the reply - I appreciate the engagement even if we're at odds.



I'm sure you're aware of the Velomotion benchmark video of the Avinox motor. They do a fairly good job of explaining when and how the Avinox motor is reaching its power.

I look forward to seeing any future videos on the topic as your post currently boils down to "trust me bro".

This kind of a feels a bit like Forumula 1 when one team finds an advantage within the ruleset that the other teams didn't spot, then all the other teams go running to the FIA to try and get that advantage banned...

I've read the replies here and it all feels very "storm in a teacup" with over exaggerations and hyperbole. Yes, new motors are more powerful. No, they're not like motorbikes on the trail and to suggest they are is disingenuous. Yes, the Avinox motor produces a lot of power. No, it doesn't fall foul of any rules as they exist today.
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it doesn't pass the rules in the USA CLass 1 in certain states, hence as DJI said on Pinkbike, it wil lbe undergoing a down grade in power for that state/country. The ZIV statement is clear max peak power 750W, that means it will have to be downgraded. The 4x assist though is actually important, DJI might be 6-8X currently. Which again means it would have to be downgraded. Everything I said is accurate, unless, DJI say F it, and go against everyone else in the industry and no one checks or hands them their hat if they discover a motor breaking the rules or whatever peak limit is mentioned.
DJI made market share by huge power numbers, well placed marketing, well place buyouts of content with out being obvious and other tricks. Then the word of mouth takes over. They did an excellent job, but, now they will have to adjust things to sit properly in the market with regard to rules and power management.
Ive been told by ZIV that their statement is accurate and will ensure ebikes remain ebikes and dont get number plates foistered onto them. Anyway I also mentioned how to make sure your bike doesn't get downgraded, which apparently also annoyed some people in high positions than me. So one could say im reporting the news.
 
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irie said:
The US is basically a federation of states each with its own state capital, government, and local laws.

The US can only be considered as a whole where federal law rather than individual state laws apply.
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Since there's been some suggestions of politics & regulation, wanted to clarify this.

Some areas of the US (SW- Utah, AZ for example)- most trails are on land owned & managed by Federal agencies - National Parks, Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management. These agencies never accepted class 1 eBikes as bicycles and instead categorized them as motorized. eBike owners have somewhat ignored that, which has created tension and gotten all bikes banned from some areas where there were already user conflicts on crowded multi-use trails.

In WA state, most of our trails are on working forests, either privately owned or on land managed by the DNR (WA State Department of Natural Resources). DNR here is friendly to bikes. WA state parks also categorize class 1 eBikes as regular mountain bikes, so many great trails are fully eBike legal. But we still have some conflicts and closures.

It's great here in WA - but there's other states where access is very tenuous- so the concerns are legitimate.
 
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I don't see Amflow selling into America with the current economic climate. There is just too much uncertainty with sourcing products from China, for Americans. I am so thankful for the free trade agreement, that Australia has with China. I just makes purchasing so simple.

It's funny. Australia has seen an increase in trade, as Americans cash in on our free trade agreement, by purchasing their Chinese products from Australia, then shipping to America from Australia, to circumvent the high Tariffs. :ROFLMAO:

I guess this could be a strategy for buying an Amflow.
 
How must we call / name peoples ruling (or pretendig to) the world, without any elective mandat (whatever the activity / domain) ?
Same story, same clownfest.
Let the wreckfest rules ! (i highly doubt about innovation ability, when challenged peoples react like a mafia, whatever the lies / pretext).
 
" those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety "
Franklin D.R.

When in a given society, we've reached the point where ppl self restrict, self-jail (even mentally) under imaginary pressure (cf article "are we dumb", and the reply is yes, the brands behind this manipulation are dumb, and dead), then the self-submissive 'community' deserve to lose everything.

Self-slaving while promoting idiocracy / mediocracy ( tagged with many lies, hiden behind beautifull words and deceptive virtues) deserve full enslavement.

25 km/h limit, no throttle + inherent limits (mass, weight, thermal dissipation, etc) is already a wall. Dji reached the top end.
Crybabies are just infuriated cause they suck, and they know it will last.

They could simply aknowledge it, while community ... heh, there is no community. There are peoples, mature or not, wise or not, responsible or not, etc ... Masses being blamed for a fews is not regulation, it s oppression. If you accept this in sport, be ready for much much worse.

In a bar, if you ask someone : what is an alcoholic ?
Most will reply : someone drinking more than me.

In (E)mtb, ask to a rider : what is too much power ?
Most will reply : an emtb i don't own
Brands (the sucking ones) will reply : the emtb i don't build / sell

Karens rule only if we bend the knee ...
 
TonTonUB said:
They could simply aknowledge it, while community ... heh, there is no community. There are peoples, mature or not, wise or not, responsible or not, etc ... Masses being blamed for a fews is not regulation, it s oppression. If you accept this in sport, be ready for much much worse.
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If you own your own land you ride on, then by all means carry on!

Otherwise, the land owner dictates what rules apply to trails on their property, and how they choose enforce it.
 
Historical perspective may be helpful. Many trails all over the US and world were open for 44 mph 1000 lb vehicles that crapped all over the trails and tore them up and could bite and kick without any operator control. Interesting to see how the horse and hiker trail conflict got resolved. Our vehicles are much lighter and lower impact. Really hope the eMTB community can eventually come together to pursue an accessibility suit and campaign for disabled and everyone else that wants to access public land. The eMTB is really an amazing accessibility device with amazing health benefits. I know it motivates me to get outdoors more and be more active. Amflow and higher power levels I don't think are the issue, downhill riders can go far faster than Amflow or any eMTB motor can push a bike. If we want to restrict in the interest of safety I think we need speed limits for certain areas or in the bikes.
 
TonTonUB said:
Now they're being threatened with real competition, brands act like crybabies.
They all claim competition is good .. but not for them, or only if they can rule.

And please stop with all this rules BS, enough is enough (especially in europe, the land of rules amongst rules).

And the worst : even without the motor, Dji released their system with wireless controls, touchscreen, light / slim battery, etc ...
Just take a look at hideous oversized prego downtube of new models, from Bosch, Spesh and other.
Some famous brand was not even able to integrate a small 600 w peak power motor and 700 Wh slim battery in existing 'SL' models, and now they're ******.
They got what they deserved.

While the majority of the world innovates more and more, Europe release more and more rules.
Asylum ruled by officials, anyone ?

PS : i also think wee need limit(s). But when limits are edicted by incompetents clowns, it can't works. And adding rules to rules doesn't work either. I just wonder, considering the massive accenditology on roads, why cars are not more limited / restricted, in terms of power, speed, etc ???

PS bis @Alex bike tester, author of the video : Nothing personnal or against you, I follow and like a lot your emtb channel.
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well said, I agree.

I read that ebike conference article and what I read "between the lines" was ....The market realized...."Oh shit...we are all F**Ked, in the short term, it will take some time to compete with DJI."

There was a lot of crying, kung fu, and maybe we should think about that lame idea of "lower power" ebikes, that the market pushed so hard. Great for some parts of the market, but clearly not all.

"Lets change the way we market to make poeple buy on "emotion" and bike feel only instead....instead of things like power, speed, and torque #'s ...because the numbers are not in our favor on paper anymore (or in reality)

Well....lets just change the rules, kick them right out of the market, right?
That will never work, for many places, outside of some countries.....like in some parts of Europe. Which prob makes sense for some places there and everywhere, but doesn't make sense in general for ALL.

Gosh...anyone ever hear of that sport called Enduro motocross? Let's limit those bikes, shall we?

To many of the points on this thread, of course we do need rules in terms of where to ride, ...but more so, because in a lot of places, the rules just can't be enforced. I think we just need common sense. be smart and respectful about, what you are riding, when deciding where to ride higher power bikes. Depends a lot of what country, state, etc, you live in. If there are tons of regular riders and people on the trails...you probably shouldn't be riding an amflow.

BUT to say NO one is allowed to ride or buy an amflow because it's not "legal" or in line with what "the market" defines as "appropriate" or "good enough" ...is just pure shit.

I think, espcially because of DJI, the future of ebikes, is bright, and they will keep getting better. But for the market, "the beatings will continue, until the moral improves." The DJI kicks ass. Whether or not, its "legal," or "market approved"

I am getting choked up....emotional.... because I love this bike, so much. :)
 
If anyone was in any doubt as to why some YouTubers post shit talk about DJI; it’s for no more reason than …….. CLICKS!

IMG_9850.jpeg
 
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Emailsucks98 said:
If you own your own land you ride on, then by all means carry on!

Otherwise, the land owner dictates what rules apply to trails on their property, and how they choose enforce it.
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"
the day everything is privatized, you will be deprived of everything
"

If i'm totally supporting private property (vehicle, home, garden, etc...), it's a pure abuse of the system and a legacy of the feudal times, to allow anyone to own a common wealth.
Valleys, mountains, forests, rivers etc, should remain public property, state property, with common rules.

But since we live inside this feudal legacy, and because the self-jailin', self-slaving mentallity exist, i give you the point.

Even if you are totally wrong.
 
TonTonUB said:
But since we live inside this feudal legacy, and because the self-jailin', self-slaving mentallity exist, i give you the point.

Even if you are totally wrong.
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It's not up to me & not an opinion.

Even public lands can have a “land manager”

Here in the western US (UnUnited States someone here called it) we have a lot of "working forests". These are often privately owned/managed lands, but sometimes have "recreational immunity" (i.e. the land owners and managers aren't liable if they allow free public access). A lot of great trail networks on these lands. Class1 EBikes are generally tolerated but rarely legal on these trails.

I get that it's different in different areas of the world. The DJI may make fewer waves elsewhere.
 
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Emailsucks98 said:
It's not up to me & not an opinion.

Even public lands can have a “land manager”

Here in the western US (UnUnited States someone here called it) we have a lot of "working forests". These are often privately owned/managed lands, but sometimes have "recreational immunity" (i.e. the land owners and managers aren't liable if they allow free public access). A lot of great trail networks on these lands. Class1 EBikes are generally tolerated but rarely legal on these trails.

I get that it's different in different areas of the world. The DJI may make fewer waves elsewhere.
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Why are you not more concerned about the Levo which has an option to toggle it into a Class3 bike?
 
Plyphon said:
Why are you not more concerned about the Levo which has an option to toggle it into a Class3 bike?
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Oh I am, same story.
I'm not on the war horse about this, I just don't see it doing well for trail access in general.

It's not even specific to singletrack, we already have lots of complaints about class 3 eBikes speeding in parks and on commuter pathways. I expect the race for more power & torque will extend those complaints to trail networks where class 1 eBikes are allowed, or at least tolerated.
 
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I should know the answer to this but if I mullet my amflow and leave it in 29 flip chip what are the affects as opposed to changing the chip to 27.5? Just slacker and lower and longer?
 
It will also slacken the seat angle, shifting the rider's weight further backwards. That will impact the bikes ability to climb and riding efficiency.
 
I just watched a very interesting video that talks honestly about a dealer's point of view on the current ebike market and I want to congratulate AMFLOW for entering this battle because they are doing it in a very intelligent way. I will contact a nearby AMFLOW shop as soon as possible to do a test and possibly change vehicles. Watching the video I thought of a suggestion that could really change the game for AMFLOW sales: offer the customer a five year warranty on the motor and battery, this could really change the game and give a cue to other brands that seem to have rested on their successes...
 
Iain's latest thoughts on his Amflow sum up my experience with the bike perfectly:

 
My 2 cents after 2 weeks and 150km.

I have loaded the new firmware with the 1000 watts in Turbo. But found I was just chewing through the battery too quick. So I put it back to 850 watts. But set the 1000 watt to 60 seconds in Boost.

The situation is exacerbated when you set New Zealand Mode.

I only have a 630Wh battery in my Merida with the EP801. And I definitely get better range. But you really are travelling much slower.

I know I can run the Amflow at lower power modes and get better range than the Shimano. But the Amflow just feels so capable, that it feels super natural to be travelling at the higher speeds.

I have mulleted my PL Carbon Pro, and fitted a more Enduro suited rear tyre, and it's incredible how comfortable I am descending at speed.

I changed both front and rear wheel to 32H alloy rims with J-spokes. (29 front, 27.5 rear) And I'll run these for a couple of months. And if I don't damage these rims. I'll change to Carbon 32H rims in the mullet configuration.

I am ecstatic at how much this EMTB has improved my ability. It was expensive. But with such a jump in my ability. I would have paid far more, for an upgrade that improved my riding so much.

I am a much better rider. I am having so much more fun. I cannot wait to go riding each time I go out. This EMTB is an absolute game changer.
 
Jazzii said:
Finally I bought AXS power adapter with cord for 16 EUR and connector for 11 EUR, connected them together, pluged to motor expansion port and job was done. Transmission AXS is connected to main battery.


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Hi Jazzi,

Thanks for sharing your setup! I’m considering a similar solution and would appreciate more details about your experience:

EN: Have you experienced any long-term issues with the cheaper cable setup? Any problems with connectivity, overheating, or wear on the connectors? Also, did you simply connect the €16 AXS power adapter with the €11 connector, or was any additional modification required?

SK: Mal si dlhodobo nejaké problémy s týmto lacnejším káblovým riešením? Napríklad s pripojením, prehrievaním alebo opotrebovaním konektorov? A tiež, spojil si jednoducho €16 AXS power adaptér s €11 konektorom, alebo bolo potrebné niečo upravovať?

Your insights would be greatly appreciated!
 
Brunda said:
Hi Jazzi,

Thanks for sharing your setup! I’m considering a similar solution and would appreciate more details about your experience:

EN: Have you experienced any long-term issues with the cheaper cable setup? Any problems with connectivity, overheating, or wear on the connectors? Also, did you simply connect the €16 AXS power adapter with the €11 connector, or was any additional modification required?

SK: Mal si dlhodobo nejaké problémy s týmto lacnejším káblovým riešením? Napríklad s pripojením, prehrievaním alebo opotrebovaním konektorov? A tiež, spojil si jednoducho €16 AXS power adaptér s €11 konektorom, alebo bolo potrebné niečo upravovať?

Your insights would be greatly appreciated!
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So far so good, works great. Few friends of mine did it same way. Just when you connect connector cables with adaper ones, wire colors must be crossed. Connect black with red and red with black. Enjoy!
 
Anyone heard any rumours of the base spec changing?

MBR mention 700/900wh batteries,
Will the PL Carbon will move from gx to T type 70/90 at some point?
 
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