Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Well that sucks to hear.
Anyone interested in a RH4 RS181 frame?….Rob didn’t you say you were going to get a XL frame because that Large frame is a bit cramped?
That or I guess I can crank up my Beats to wash out the rattle, as I’ve been doing with the Bosch Race

It’s performance is much much better than the Bosch race. You won’t be disappointed. Rattle is a niggle. The rest is so so good!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Rob didn’t you say you were going to get a XL frame because that Large frame is a bit cramped?

Yes.

 

[Suns_PSD]

This is a size Large. Its a 210mm OneUp dropper, thats about as far as it'll go.

I have only had 3 rides so far, but the thing feels quite different IMO to the Bosch bike. It feels a lot lighter and sharper, but its probably not much lighter at all, I think its around the same weight.

Big differences:

Positives
- Mullet, with long rear centre, put tons of grip on the front wheel. Customise your rear end with dropouts is a massive plus.
- Feels far more lively all over compared to the Bosch version. This one is 15mm shorter in reach (485mm) than the Bosch one I've been riding, which will definitely contribute to that feeling.
- Measures pretty slack on my measuring device, like 62.9 degrees
- 1309mm wheelbase, 180mm travel front and rear
- Rear suspension tune feels a bit firmer in the first bit of travel, maybe its less progressive
- Exists corners with lightning pace, step on the pedals and its fricking fast!
- DJI makes the Bosch feel like an SL. I know its been said a lot, but I left my Bosch mate standing.
- Looks stunning. Literally not far off a normal pedal bike in looks.
- Steeper seat tube angle over the Bosch

Negatives (so far)
- Motor rattle. Personally I'm super sensitive to bike noises. The rattle annoys me (I hear rattle on all the Avinox bikes I try)
- Seat tube insertion. Never gonna be able to run 240mm droppers on this bike, sadly.
- SRAM cable transmission feels a bit cheap on the lever end. I’m moving back to wireless, especially now DJI has coast shift!

So happy with it so far!

View attachment 163519

I'm trying to wrap my head around the how it feels more lively part.
Is this because you're riding a size too small? This is probably the largest contributor to this sensation.
Is it because the motor is a lot more responsive and it makes the bike just feel lighter and snappier? Would the Bosch update to 750watts negate this?
Is it due to a change in Geo or suspension design that came about with this version.
It just seems odd to say that it feels totally different when it's essentially the same bike and the same weight.
Ps. At 5'11" I'd be on a 180mm dropper. I could live with it but I'm pretty used to 210mm.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It just seems odd to say that it feels totally different when it's essentially the same bike and the same weight.

I said it felt quite different, not totally different

Is it because the motor is a lot more responsive and it makes the bike just feel lighter and snappier? Would the Bosch update to 750watts negate this?
Is it due to a change in Geo or suspension design that came about with this version.

Battery location, weight distribution, FC/RC balance, motor power, different rearward axle path etc etc make it feel ‘quite’ different. Familiar- but different!

No, the 750wh Bosch isn’t close. Better, but this is much more powerful still.

 

[sethimus]

No, it wont slam down any lower than what I have it. I tried (size Large frame). The cable actuator at the bottom of the post doesnt allow free movement of the dropper cable to be pulled.

similar to a kenevo sl or does it go deeper?

 

[Suns_PSD]

I wonder if a Sidekick hub would quiet the DJI motor rattle?

Also, do you have chain ring protection on your DJI Crestline?

 

[westcoastmtbr]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the how it feels more lively part.
Is this because you're riding a size too small? This is probably the largest contributor to this sensation.
Is it because the motor is a lot more responsive and it makes the bike just feel lighter and snappier? Would the Bosch update to 750watts negate this?
Is it due to a change in Geo or suspension design that came about with this version.
It just seems odd to say that it feels totally different when it's essentially the same bike and the same weight.
Ps. At 5'11" I'd be on a 180mm dropper. I could live with it but I'm pretty used to 210mm.

3cm is your difference. Might you also look at the best post like One Up who's set up drops the seat into the clamp the most? This may make up some of the difference.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

All I hear is DJI Avinox is better than Bosch. Suck it Bosch owners!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

similar to a kenevo sl or does it go deeper?

Definitely deeper, and the seat tube height is lower than KSL too

 

[AlumiPro]

I wonder if a Sidekick hub would quiet the DJI motor rattle?

Also, do you have chain ring protection on your DJI Crestline?

It most likely will.
I have the Sidekick on my current Crestline Gen4 Bosch Race and it definitely reduces the down hill rattle. My wheel set with sidekick hubs will be transferred over to the new RS181 frame.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It most likely will.
I have the Sidekick on my current Crestline Gen4 Bosch Race and it definitely reduces the down hill rattle. My wheel set with sidekick hubs will be transferred over to the new RS181 frame.

You'll be able to update us soon.
Would be cool if also had a normal hub to test back and forth.
You're currently on a Bosch Crestline? Did you find the sidekick beneficial for suspension performance on your current bike?

I'm ordering a new bike this Fall and was leaning Regulator CX-R, but the DJI Crestline just might be the ticket instead.
Watching this space intently.

 

[AlumiPro]

Definitely deeper, and the seat tube height is lower than KSL too

A wireless dropper seems to be the way to go on VPP or any other frame style with a shock tunnel that reduces dropper insertion. (No cable lever binding at the bottom of the dropper, which reduces insertion depth.)

 

[Suns_PSD]

A wireless dropper seems to be the way to go on VPP or any other frame style with a shock tunnel that reduces dropper insertion. (No cable lever binding at the bottom of the dropper, which reduces insertion depth.)

It's a good point that I only recently considered myself.

 

[Plummet]

This is a size Large. Its a 210mm OneUp dropper, thats about as far as it'll go.

I have only had 3 rides so far, but the thing feels quite different IMO to the Bosch bike. It feels a lot lighter and sharper, but its probably not much lighter at all, I think its around the same weight.

Big differences:

Positives
- Mullet, with long rear centre, put tons of grip on the front wheel. Customise your rear end with dropouts is a massive plus.
- Feels far more lively all over compared to the Bosch version. This one is 15mm shorter in reach (485mm) than the Bosch one I've been riding, which will definitely contribute to that feeling.
- Measures pretty slack on my measuring device, like 62.9 degrees
- 1309mm wheelbase, 180mm travel front and rear
- Rear suspension tune feels a bit firmer in the first bit of travel, maybe its less progressive
- Exists corners with lightning pace, step on the pedals and its fricking fast!
- DJI makes the Bosch feel like an SL. I know its been said a lot, but I left my Bosch mate standing.
- Looks stunning. Literally not far off a normal pedal bike in looks.
- Steeper seat tube angle over the Bosch

Negatives (so far)
- Motor rattle. Personally I'm super sensitive to bike noises. The rattle annoys me (I hear rattle on all the Avinox bikes I try)
- Seat tube insertion. Never gonna be able to run 240mm droppers on this bike, sadly.
- SRAM cable transmission feels a bit cheap on the lever end. I’m moving back to wireless, especially now DJI has coast shift!

So happy with it so far!

View attachment 163519

I'm jealous of the raw carbon look. I would have loved that for mine. The only option i had was S-180 shitty green/grey. The only colour I prefer less is pink/purple...Anyway, I'm function over form. So i get over the shitty paint colour.

I agree, the ability to configure chainstays is optimal for the customer. For me the 445 of the s180 was what I wanted. But the outliers in size are always getting a missmatched geo bike if there is only a one size fits all chainstay. I was trying to explain this to Leo Kokkonen the other day on the Pole facebook page. But he isn't keen on offering configurable chainstays. Ok there's more engineering to be considered as it does change leverage ratios and how the suspension works. But if they can engineer it to work its the better solution. One size definitely does not fit all.

I'm interested to see a comparison between dji and bosch when the 750w/100nm upgrade is released. Also really interested in 3 hour ride comparison. Not just race up one hill. How did a continuous ride go over hours and hours? Did the DJI loose power advantage as it heated up? does it blow through the battery sooner and does dji guy have to finish early while bosch guy carries on riding? If you run similar power settings to bosch does it still blow through battery sooner. The lack of cooling fins and compact size had got to be an issue regarding heat dissipation.

Lastly, I'm glad I ended up with the S-180 and not the DJI crestline bike. Forward weight bias of higher longer battery, less rearward axle path, steeper sta. slacker hta (63.5° is optimum for me), heavier minimum set up, trunion shock, all not what I want.

But it looks freaken cool and I agree almost like a mtb.

PS, Yeah smaller size will be giving you a more playful feel to your previous Crestline. I always run a size down from recommended for my size for my height. I prefer the playful to longer and more stable.

 

[AlumiPro]

You'll be able to update us soon.
Would be cool if also had a normal hub to test back and forth.

I'm ordering a new bike this Fall and was leaning Regulator CX-R, but the DJI Crestline just might be the ticket instead.
Watching this space intently.

I have a I9 Hydra wheel set on my mtb that I could transfer to the DJI RS181 to see the difference. The I9 Hydra should be horrible on the VPP Crestline(kickback and noise)

 

[RoJo]

Off topic, but i'm interested in Fox Podium Vs Ohlins Coil...

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Off topic, but i'm interested in Fox Podium Vs Ohlins Coil...

Its my first time using a coil fork. Initially I thought the spring rate was too light, because the off the top sensitivity was crazy high, and the first part of the travel felt like it was too eager to get into. But the midstroke support is so so good, that it turned out that the stock coil worked very well.

They are about the same weight. I'd give the edge to the Podium on flat out square edge hits, but it doesn't have the sensitivity of the coil, or the mid stroke support.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I guess that, if the dji proves to be durable and faultless (already it seems that it rattles), bosch will have to step up with a similar slimmer motor/battery.

I think the big thing for Bosch is the battery shape means that the bike frames that fit the 800Wh can never be thin/slimline. Those Bosch 800Wh batteries are so thicc.

Market seems to like more svelte ebike designs, and the 800Wh battery DJI is so slim that it means big power ebikes can look very close to regular pedal bikes.

Bosch take so long to pivot, that it would probably take 2 years for a new battery format to arrive onto market.

 

[DylanJM]

I think a lot of the manufactures who have just designed bikes around the current Bosch batteries would be pretty pissed if Bosch brought out a new slim battery before they have been able to get their money's worth from their existing gen 5 bikes. I can't see it happening in the immediate future. Who knows where battery tech will be in two years anyway.

 

[Plummet]

I think the big thing for Bosch is the battery shape means that the bike frames that fit the 800Wh can never be thin/slimline. Those Bosch 800Wh batteries are so thicc.

Market seems to like more svelte ebike designs, and the 800Wh battery DJI is so slim that it means big power ebikes can look very close to regular pedal bikes.

Bosch take so long to pivot, that it would probably take 2 years for a new battery format to arrive onto market.

Yeah, the long thin batteries look good but the shorter fatter batteries have lower more centered c of g. So its form of function or function over form.

 

[irie]

Yeah, the long thin batteries look good but the shorter fatter batteries have lower more centered c of g. So its form of function or function over form.

That's a very good point, longer thinner batteries may look nicer but raise the centre of gravity when compared to shorter fatter batteries.

 

[irie]

That's just marketing guys. A 800wh battery weighs almost 4kg. If we assume that 1/5 of the weight in slimmer batteries is above the fatter ones, this makes a very small change in the center of gravity. Take also into account that the motor that weighs almost 2.8kg is at the lowest point.

This thing, is just marketing coming from motorcycles (ktm has a few models with the fuel tank sitting low), where center of gravity is much more important because you have a motorcycle that weighs 190-210kg and a rider that weighs 85kg, and not a bike that weighs 24kg and a rider that weighs 85kg. In the bike, if you lean a little bit lower, you make up for the c.o.g. disadvantage of the slim battery, which practically is negligible in the handling imho.

No, not "just marketing", it all adds up affecting handling.

 

[Rando_12345]

I agree, but reviews of the Unno Mith and now comments from Rob about this bike suggest that the overall lighter weight, and possibly better kinematics thanks to smaller motor seem to be leading to better handling bikes built with DJI system, despite the less optimal weight placement.

 

[AlumiPro]

Maybe if people are super worried about optimal weight placement they should loose some belly weight or try shrinking there big head.

 

[Astro66]

Those Bosch 800Wh batteries are so thicc.

Absolutely this in spades ^^^^

Fat downtubes and bulky bottom brackets make EMTBs look like Motorbikes instead of Mountain Bikes. When you come across other riders and walkers on the trail. You want to look like you are riding a Bicycle. Not a Motorbike.

 

[Plummet]

That's just marketing guys. A 800wh battery weighs almost 4kg. If we assume that 1/5 of the weight in slimmer batteries is above the fatter ones, this makes a very small change in the center of gravity. Take also into account that the motor that weighs almost 2.8kg is at the lowest point.

This thing, is just marketing coming from motorcycles (ktm has a few models with the fuel tank sitting low), where center of gravity is much more important because you have a motorcycle that weighs 190-210kg and a rider that weighs 85kg, and not a bike that weighs 24kg and a rider that weighs 85kg. In the bike, if you lean a little bit lower, you make up for the c.o.g. disadvantage of the slim battery, which practically is negligible in the handling imho.

Granted the difference is small. But non the less it makes for a worse handling bike not a better handling bike.

Forward weight on full fat emtbs is the main handling difference compared to an mtb. Its the reason why people go to light weight mid power bikes. To make them feel more like an mtb.

It becomes really noticable when you drop battery sizes and the weight distro becomes really noticeable.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Granted the difference is small. But non the less it makes for a worse handling bike not a better handling bike.

Forward weight on full fat emtbs is the main handling difference compared to an mtb. Its the reason why people go to light weight mid power bikes. To make them feel more like an mtb.

It becomes really noticable when you drop battery sizes and the weight distro becomes really noticeable.

The difference we’re talking about between the Bosch and DJI is like a half full water bottle vs a 3/4 full water bottle in the bottle cage.
Or run a 5mm shorter stem to make the DJI feel like the Bosch

 

[JJ503]

It’s performance is much much better than the Bosch race. You won’t be disappointed. Rattle is a niggle. The rest is so so good!

Rob- what size chainring are you running? Do you foresee any clearance issues running a 36T or 38T with the upper guide, or exposure below the lower cover? Looks like you might have a 36T. Wondering if a larger ring might mitigate the rattle + some performance gains. A noisy frame/motor is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[AlumiPro]

The difference we’re talking about between the Bosch and DJI is like a half full water bottle vs a 3/4 full water bottle in the bottle cage.
Or run a 5mm shorter stem to make the DJI feel like the Bosch

I’m going to fill my front tire and handlebar with helium, that’ll do the trick. I’ll be just as balanced as any Bosch powered bike out there!

 

[AlumiPro]

Rob- what size chainring are you running? Do you foresee any clearance issues running a 36T or 38T with the upper guide, or exposure below the lower cover? Looks like you might have a 36T. Wondering if a larger ring might mitigate the rattle + some performance gains. A noisy frame/motor is a hard pill to swallow.

I hope it can support a 36t, that’s what I have waiting to be installed.