Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!
- Thread starter elesdee
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Mario Antony
Active member
That's why Superchargers exist...But more than glad to see where Specialized stated that.
PS: I don't understand why Bosch/Specialized/Giant-Yamaha/Brose/etc are still sleeping at the wheel.
Avinox passed them all, taking out stickers and paint and is getting really away..............
PS: I don't understand why Bosch/Specialized/Giant-Yamaha/Brose/etc are still sleeping at the wheel.
Avinox passed them all, taking out stickers and paint and is getting really away..............
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I wouldn't state it that broadly. It's bad for the M58T cells used by Bosch and Avinox (and maybe Spesh?) but there are current-/last-gen cells that can easily charge at 20+ amps without damage. The trade-off is either higher cost or lower capacity. The main players chose a cheap, high-capacity cell that limits safe charging speed.
Just a quick google doesn't overtly mention battery damage, but I do see this listed under their fast charger:
Fast Mode - Nothing Charges Faster.
Speed
Charges an 840Wh battery to 80% in an hour.
Eco
Eco Mode - Love Your Mother (Earth).
Save
Got time? Same charge, less energy consumed.
Preserve
Charge to 80% and Live Long, Battery.
At a Glance
FastFast Mode - Nothing Charges Faster.
Speed
Charges an 840Wh battery to 80% in an hour.
Eco
Eco Mode - Love Your Mother (Earth).
Save
Got time? Same charge, less energy consumed.
Preserve
Charge to 80% and Live Long, Battery.
PeterHenric
Member
Class 3 is not illegal in the United States. Specialized has enabled that on the Levo in the states and it is amazing! That is the thing at the top of my wish list from Bosch. Don't care about more power, just let us have Class 3. Please.
Maybe illegal was not the best choice of wording on my part.
It's no longer a Class 1, if it's a Class 3, obviously. The mountain bike trails are legal for Class 1 bikes, not Class 2-3 bikes.
Bogdan_CH
Active member
Except Amflow and the Atherton bike all M2/M2S bikes just launched use the old batteries .
AlsbachRyder
New Member
- Feb 18, 2026
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The Raymon Tarok comes with the new 700wh battery.
PeterHenric
Member
Nowhere in Vegas do they police that type of thing so I can’t speak from experience but I’d say it’s only class 3 when it’s enabled. Specialized makes it so that the display shows a big Class 3 Mode when it’s enabled and you are at idle. When it’s in normal class 1 mode it isn’t displayed. I’d assume that’s how you’d police it if necessary.
I know there are areas where they do monitor this stuff and I’d assume that’s how they do it.
Yeah, they don't police prostitution in LV either. Not sure that's the standard that I want to abide by!
Anyways, for those that aren't aware, I blew out my knee severely in my second ride on my Wild. I'm more bummed about not being able to ride than I am the knee surgery that's scheduled for June 2nd.
In an act of defiance against my orthopedic surgeon's demands and against all common sense (what the heck does he know anyways), I built a small jump in the water run off area next to my house, and had a few tests of the app update that shows jumps. Seriously, one legged. For the most part I found the constant beeping distracting.
Have to say that even with only one leg in turbo mode this thing has so much power even on a small but very steep section.. I just don't know why anybody needs more.
PeterHenric
Member
I think the saying is “it’s not considered a crime unless they catch you.”
What I was trying to say is that class 3 mode isn’t “illegal” everywhere and the Bosch could absolutely enable that for people in the states or anywhere else where it is allowed and then keep it the way it is now for everyone else. I know that not everyone would be “allowed” to use it in the states as some areas don’t allow it so that’s why you make it a setting you turn on each time you ride. It’s working just fine for Specialized like that.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
I would say the opposite, its legal in most states who've adopted the three class (I, II, III) system.
Yes, for us eMTB riders who want to ride our local park or forest, then a Class III is likely illegal. Riding to trail a Class III is legal and fair game. I guess, the grey area is the ease in which they (Specialized/Avinox) can be switched and are riders going to comply and not use Class III on trails... I don't think its a huge issue, or issue at all. There really isn't enforcement that I see yet, at least around me. Nothing really stopping kids from ripping on surrons occsionally (not that I agree), Class I, II, III ebikes, or bicycles.
My take is most issues with ebikes occur on the road and multi-use paved or rail trails with lost of pedestrians and other vehicles. In the woods, the desert, up on the mountain... just don't be a wanker.
I am a bit green at how the Bosch motors work.
I have the cx5 with the 750w 100nm upgrade.
If the power remains the same, and the nm increases by 20% - a big gain
How noticeable would that be? Just low down grunt boosts?
My interest is in the assistance, is this wattage or torque, or both?
How would you expect the motors to behave with the rumoured update?
Next time, can we release the rumours closer to the release date, this has been the longest month of my life haha.
Cheers, Rob
I have the cx5 with the 750w 100nm upgrade.
If the power remains the same, and the nm increases by 20% - a big gain
How noticeable would that be? Just low down grunt boosts?
My interest is in the assistance, is this wattage or torque, or both?
How would you expect the motors to behave with the rumoured update?
Next time, can we release the rumours closer to the release date, this has been the longest month of my life haha.
Cheers, Rob
The last update that went from 85nm to 100nm was very noticeable.
Mario Antony
Active member
Hi!
I completly agree, but I do think it's all about
1) MO'POWA-MO'BETTER
2) Value perception
MO'POWA - MO'BETTER
Bosch/Shimano/Giant/Specialized had an emtb motor, with very nice assistance and torque arround 80/90 Nm.
Every so year we would have updates in size/APP features/noise/current/etc, but nothing disruptive.
Assistance was around 360/400%, and most were happy.
Some riders with this type of motor ("Full Power"), ride in Turbo/Boost Mode, all the time. Anyone that rides always in this mode, will see all other modes as modes they'll never use.
Some of this riders weren't avid MTB riders / cyclists, and don't need that sensation of achievement, to reach the summit, and prefer to be dragged up there, rather than push the pedals and have some help from the bike.
ebikes will subdivide not in 2 categories (SL and Full Power), but more in 3 (SL, New Class, Full Power), being an example of the full power Avinox.
The new class will emerge, because there are people that don't want that much power, and want a little more power than the SL bikes.
Time will tell, and I think Shimano will set the pace once they decide what will replace the EP801.
Avinox set the bar with a compact, powerfull system.
The others or just go after... or set a new thing, as did TQ presenting the HPR20
Mario Antony
Active member
Check this interview to TQ:
From what I've concluded up to now, from all data available at ebike-labs.de, is that most manufactures tend to maintain the essence of biking, on their motors.
Meaning, that reward feeling of achievement, but without the suffering that are normally associated to big climbs/long rides.
600/800% is far beyond this philosophy.
Even the standard 360% from Bosch, or 400% in eMTB+, feels "unatural".
As refered previously, you can do big inclines on smooth surface, with only one leg! Inclines that would require an upright climbing position, and exert big force on the pedals to perform such on a BIKE.
Besides motor feeling, there are other technical aspects influencing not choosing high assistance:
- Battery Consumption
- Motor heat & heat derating
- Motor reliability (+++ power = +++ strain & stress)
Nevertheless, I don't oppose to such High Power or High Assistance motor types.
The only issue, is if Full Power Motors keep this trend (+Power & + assistance), and SL motors keep the Light weight & Low Power Battery Pack, riders that like me, who are looking for more punch than SL, but don't need the NEW full power motors, will be in "No-Men-Land".
Just a comment to fuel debate.
Cheers
I think as long as the user can still dial in whatever assistance factor they want it's not a huge issue. Avinox has offered 800% since the M1 and I'm wondering how much it's that that people enjoy or the sheer peak power numbers.
Mario Antony
Active member
I understand, thing is, I can "dial" my Bosch CX4 to Bosch SX on Flowapp.
That doesn't mean it will feel the same.
More power can suit some, but not all.
There will always be a faster rider uphill:
101K views · 430 reactions | We threw two 250 lb riders at this hill climb at Sea Otter to put these motor systems to the test! If you’ve ever ridden Sea Otter, you know this hill is an absolute beast — even e-bikers are out here suffering up it! W
We threw two 250 lb riders at this hill climb at Sea Otter to put these motor systems to the test! If you’ve ever ridden Sea Otter, you know this hill is an absolute beast — even e-bikers are out...
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sjturner2112
Member
yes, fast charging KILLS your battery, from what I understand. I'm find with slow. After 2-3 hours of riding, I am toast anyway, or at least my lower back is.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
The option to fast charge would be awesome... don't need it everyday, but occasionally it would come in super handy.
sjturner2112
Member
Yes, I feel these factors are going to be so much in play for all of the 1300-1500 was Avinox owner more than just about anything else. Lots of turning the power way down to get any range, that is what I am seeing all the YTers who actually own the bike doing.
sjturner2112
Member
Depends on where you live, and it is on the trails.
Andeh
Active member
I don't give 2 
about getting more power/torque, but will happily buy a 700wh battery that is same size/weight as my 600. If I can zip up trails carrying a 40 lb trail building pack including a chainsaw with the current 100nm/750w, that's plenty. Also, I want to be able to pair my AXS devices with the Kiox to display gear selection, like you can do on Specialized. AXS already broadcasts it, so it's up to Bosch to pair and display the data.
about getting more power/torque, but will happily buy a 700wh battery that is same size/weight as my 600. If I can zip up trails carrying a 40 lb trail building pack including a chainsaw with the current 100nm/750w, that's plenty. Also, I want to be able to pair my AXS devices with the Kiox to display gear selection, like you can do on Specialized. AXS already broadcasts it, so it's up to Bosch to pair and display the data.
ebsocalmtb
Well-known member
Feel free to zip up the trails this weekend with your pack to do trail work. I'm headed to pacifica next week to see friends and do some riding and I'm stoked that you're going to touch up the trails before I get there.I don't give 2
Mario Antony
Active member
Out of curiosity and trully wanting to understand:I don't give 2
Why do you need to display what the bike is?
PeterHenric
Member
My father always says "It's better to have the power and not need it than to need it and not have it." I say this in jest but I think that's how some people are when buying ebikes. If 2 different frames are similar but one has a more powerful motor then SOME people will go the direction of more power.
I personally don't see the allure of that much power. I'd much rather see them start trimming down the size of the motors and batteries and keep the same power as opposed to keeping the same form factors and get more power and bigger batteries. My first ebike was an Intense Tazer with the E8000 motor and 504wh battery. That wasn't enough for me and the motor was too inefficient. Now I have the Yeti LTe with the 800wh battery and that feels like too much battery most of the time. Somewhere in the middle would be great.
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