Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!

[MountainBoy]

Bosch doesn't care about customer loyalty... their goal is to sell new bikes and make your two-year-old bike obsolete... I don't believe in backward compatibility. DJI will change everything every year, and everyone will be scrambling to get it.
They're for-profit companies, not charities.

Innovation and constant improvement is good. Not supporting your previous models is bad.

The eBike manufacturers could take a lesson from Tesla, innovate constantly and update new models with better, more reliable technology, but don't leave owners of earlier models in the lurch, send them free software updates (as far as the old hardware allows), to improve efficiency, power levels, add new modes, etc. That way when your ebike is six years old you are still getting free updates and refreshes.

 

[Andrew8200m]

I’m not convinced it’ll happen. They have updated power and torque once already. If it does then fantastic, few update for a few runs out until the novelty wears off and I go back to circa 65nm and 600w again.

 

[Endorium]

I’m not convinced it’ll happen. They have updated power and torque once already. If it does then fantastic, few update for a few runs out until the novelty wears off and I go back to circa 65nm and 600w again.

It is official happening. 120nm. Plus 12 amp chargers as well. I just hope the new high density batteries that have been rumored for bosch happen this year

 

[Suns_PSD]

The high density batteries, being retrofittable at affordable prices, is all I care about.

 

[Mario Antony]

It's nice to have free updates and MO'POWA for free, but thing is:
eMTB limited to 25km/h // 32Km/h, MO'POWA will mean hitting speed limit faster - for what?

Bring some fast charging to the game.
Hopefully it will be compatible with previous Smartsystem batteries....

 

[SebSebSto]

I still love the SX, and riding it , much more than a Full Power Motor, but Bosch really needs to release a higher capacity Battery for SX Bikes. That would be perfect.

 

[OffitThatM8]

They will if they want to stay in the game ,why choose a bosch bike when avinox is offering so much more

Because there is two types of people who ride emtb.

Those who just want some assistance on the ups to ride more downs and those who just want to put as little effort in as possible and basically have an offroad moped


When i was eeb shopping I didn't really care about the motor, just makes it easier to get to the top of the hill faster and more times than leg power alone so I can enjoy way more trail riding per ride. I bought based on the bike and didn't really care what motor it came with

 

[Polar]

Because there is two types of people who ride emtb.

Those who just want some assistance on the ups to ride more downs and those who just want to put as little effort in as possible and basically have an offroad moped


When i was eeb shopping I didn't really care about the motor, just makes it easier to get to the top of the hill faster and more times than leg power alone so I can enjoy way more trail riding per ride. I bought based on the bike and didn't really care what motor it came with

You forgot the third type that don't want a moped but need as much power as possible to have fun getting up hills due to age and/or medical conditions.

 

[dirt-diggler]

I still love the SX, and riding it , much more than a Full Power Motor, but Bosch really needs to release a higher capacity Battery for SX Bikes. That would be perfect.

I had a few specialized Al's then moved to the Bosch gen5 cx, powerwise I have it set similar to the sx power but with the 600wh battery it works as a good compromise for me

 

[OffitThatM8]

You forgot the third type that don't want a moped but need as much power as possible to have fun getting up hills due to age and/or medical conditions.

those who just want to put as little effort in as possible and basically have an offroad moped, maybe because of age and/or medical conditions, FTFY

 

[Szymbrush]

Because there is two types of people who ride emtb.

Those who just want some assistance on the ups to ride more downs and those who just want to put as little effort in as possible and basically have an offroad moped


When i was eeb shopping I didn't really care about the motor, just makes it easier to get to the top of the hill faster and more times than leg power alone so I can enjoy way more trail riding per ride. I bought based on the bike and didn't really care what motor it came with

Yeah, this is what really boggles my mind, especially after just having read the new Avinox thread. All the talk about max power, derestricting, max speed, trail shredding, and people crying because they had bought the 'old' avinox 2 weeks before the new one came out (so two weeks ago it was the 'best bike on the market' and now it's a paperweight?).

Being a motorcyclist for years before I got into MTB, I find myself in the age-old conversation: "how much HP does it have, what's the max speed?" It seems to me a bunch of people are discovering what they really want is to ride a motorcycle on MTB trails. I'm like you: my bosch-powered bike has one job, i.e. get me up the hill so I can have fun going down. You know, downhill is why most (all?) of us love the sport. What I COULD use is a bit more traction sampling on the rear wheel, as sometimes it tends to spin out on the steep loose stuff (I live in a very steep area with rocky fire roads), essentially traction control, which Avinox seems to have. I'd take that on a Bosch any day vs more torque/power.

 

[Polar]

those who just want to put as little effort in as possible and basically have an offroad moped, maybe because of age and/or medical conditions, FTFY

I just didn't know the definition of a moped depended on how it was used and by whom but now I have learned.

 

[Geew]

I must admit that I sometimes struggle to understand this view of electric bikes. Without wanting to sound like an old fogey on the subject, I remember when (5 or 6 years ago) buying a mountain bike with a Bosch motor was considered a "smart" choice. We spent thousands of euros on a bike and motor combo, which was supposed to last us a few years. The lifetime warranty on the frame made sense; we felt like we were investing in the long term, with a durable product that wouldn't lose too much value. We were more concerned with the frame and its sturdiness than with the motor's specifications.

Today, while the tensions between traditional and electric mountain bikes are, in my opinion, quite high, the vision of the "mountain biking" lifestyle—close to nature and involving trail maintenance (like removing a branch from a singletrack)—seems to be declining. Mountain biking has become simply a way to look cool, and the sharing of trails between mountain bikers, hikers, and trail runners is creating problems. Buying a carbon frame with a lifetime warranty no longer makes sense, as the industry and marketing are trying to make "one-year-old" models obsolete. Every technological advancement seems to lead to bike replacement.

I know no one is forcing us to buy, that we'll inevitably lose money on resale, and that bike shops are going through a tough time, where novelty equals sales. However, I never thought a €10,000 mountain bike would be considered a disposable product. Back then, 85 Nm was the pinnacle; we thought we could climb any hill with that. Today, for you, that's unacceptable!

I'm all for smaller, more powerful batteries, and for buying durable, robust, and fun products. But frankly, it's time to stop playing around with this power. Most of us don't even know how to control it, which further tarnishes our sport in the eyes of other trail users. I'm increasingly understanding the critical view some traditional mountain bikers have of us. Be honest with yourself and accept that you're probably a sheep, because the manufacturers are well aware of it.

 

[curufinwe_wins]

I must admit that I sometimes struggle to understand this view of electric bikes. Without wanting to sound like an old fogey on the subject, I remember when (5 or 6 years ago) buying a mountain bike with a Bosch motor was considered a "smart" choice. We spent thousands of euros on a bike and motor combo, which was supposed to last us a few years. The lifetime warranty on the frame made sense; we felt like we were investing in the long term, with a durable product that wouldn't lose too much value. We were more concerned with the frame and its sturdiness than with the motor's specifications.

Today, while the tensions between traditional and electric mountain bikes are, in my opinion, quite high, the vision of the "mountain biking" lifestyle—close to nature and involving trail maintenance (like removing a branch from a singletrack)—seems to be declining. Mountain biking has become simply a way to look cool, and the sharing of trails between mountain bikers, hikers, and trail runners is creating problems. Buying a carbon frame with a lifetime warranty no longer makes sense, as the industry and marketing are trying to make "one-year-old" models obsolete. Every technological advancement seems to lead to bike replacement.

I know no one is forcing us to buy, that we'll inevitably lose money on resale, and that bike shops are going through a tough time, where novelty equals sales. However, I never thought a €10,000 mountain bike would be considered a disposable product. Back then, 85 Nm was the pinnacle; we thought we could climb any hill with that. Today, for you, that's unacceptable!

I'm all for smaller, more powerful batteries, and for buying durable, robust, and fun products. But frankly, it's time to stop playing around with this power. Most of us don't even know how to control it, which further tarnishes our sport in the eyes of other trail users. I'm increasingly understanding the critical view some traditional mountain bikers have of us. Be honest with yourself and accept that you're probably a sheep, because the manufacturers are well aware of it.

I'm kinda weirded out by a lot of this tbh. I've never met a single person irl who thought emtbs could be lifetime purchases. Hell, normal mtbs have just (sorta not really) gotten out of the same every year new model new parts space and how would anyone have expected adding a motor to make it less likely to be obsoleted?

That was literally the entire point of the DYI approach where you could always just move the motor to the next frame if you wanted to.

I think in general cycling is kinda in a long-overdue reckoning. If you want cycling to be mass transportation (qnd I really think most people should want that), the needs and expectations are going to be so much different than the first few generations of products that were just about the same but more. A bike that you cycle to the trails is infinitely more useable and sustainable than the bike you drive to a trail.

And yes, that means we need to be better and more thorough with enforcement of proper behavior. At any power level. Hell anyone following cycling for decades has dealt with the overzealous TT/Roadie head down no-look smashing into pedestrians on mixed use trails that are supposed to be 15mph or lower.

If the state I grew up could manage enforcing and maintaining support for over 20,000 miles of snowmobile trails (infinitely more damaging if bad actors are rampant), we really should address most of these emtb concerns with a "Yes/okay, and" approach. A one time liscense and age limit would not be too big a price to pay if it came to that.

But what can I say... bike, ebike, ecargo, emtb, I've never spent more than 6000 on one, and never once expected to recoup any of that down the road either (i don't just throw old bikes away, but I never plan on the basis of their needing to recoup value. Because if its actually a good experience, I'll just keep using it instead.)

 

[Suns_PSD]

Bosch just released something called 'Range Control' where it knows your route and adjust power so that you can finish the ride without running out.

 

[Beaker2135]

Bosch just released something called 'Range Control' where it knows your route and adjust power so that you can finish the ride without running out.

I just got the email as well but it’s not a new feature afaik it’s been around since 2024

 

[OffitThatM8]

I just got the email as well but it’s not a new feature afaik it’s been around since 2024

Yeah it's been around a while I tried it after sticking the kiox 400c on my bike and its misleading imo, it gives off the impression that you plan a komoot route and sync it on flow app, set destination battery percentage at say %25 and it will take care of everything else, like full auto mode...

It doesn't it just tells you how many KM you've got left in each mode to reach your destination with target battery percentage, which with a kiox display if you know the ride you're going to do is 50km you just need to make sure you've got more estimated range left than distance you've covered, kinda pointless imo lol

 

[Arminius]

I just didn't know the definition of a moped depended on how it was used and by whom but now I have learned.

Moped, my first one:

 

[Junior]

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/products/ebike-flow-app/updates/version-1-34

Is this the update that was teased on Bosch's insta? Seems to match up wtih the language. It will be pretty funny if Bosch does not in fact release a power update with all these rumors

 

[Polar]

Moped, my first one:

View attachment 181815

I had Ciao with pedals and beltdrive

 

[sjturner2112]

Thanks for the follow up. I heard they are upping the torque to 120nm, but keeping power at 750W.

Well that won't really make a diff, you need more power to power that torque number. Torque is not an independent variable.

 

[curufinwe_wins]

Well that won't really make a diff, you need more power to power that torque number. Torque is not an independent variable.

The irony is, you are right, torque is an independent variable to power.

Though even 85nm with proper gearing is utterly overkill, and you could increase power indefinitely and it wouldn't likely require or find use for any more torque than these bikes have.

I mean stop and think about it for a little bit. eMTBs normally run around 1.6 final drive ratio, which means we are pushing 140NM or more (because a 100kg human simply standing their body weight end of a 155mm crank is adding another 150 NM when at 90 degrees).

Large offroad dirt bikes including final drive ratios will push as much as 500 NM at the wheel. But with 2-4x as much system mass.

Which basically says a person standing on their cranks (not even needing to apply much power) + an 85nm motor and normal mtb gearing are offering between 1.3 to 2.5x the lateral acceleration maximum of these dirt bikes that already spin their wheels like crazy.

If you watch your torque output from the motor, it's basically impossible for a pedaling human + middrive to torque out at normal cadences, being purely power limited. And it is absolutely impossible for a standing climber to torque out with a middrive. You will lose surface grip first, even on pavement.

With throttle use, you can trap the motor at a low rpm (and thus low torque) if you gear wrong, but bikes are, quite intuitively, very much designed as effective torque levers for humans even at low power.

I don't think I've ever seen my m1 hit over 60nm even when on turbo mode going up steep climbs at 1000W. Maybe you could do that with the worst possible gearing, but not normally.

 

[trekRailIRL]

 

[SilverWinterSky]

 

[Raptor]

View attachment 181819View attachment 181820View attachment 181821View attachment 181822

Yep that will really challenge Avinox-based bike sales that!

 

[Junior]

Yep that will really challenge Avinox-based bike sales that!

Hahaha. This is the update Bosch teased on their instagram. Same exact language. Everyone thought it was the power update, but I was a bit suspicious with the wheelie and manual in the video.

This update needs some strava stat bragging built into it

 

[Bogdan_CH]

SO this is it ? Not needing more power in any way, but this just laughable to be honest. Avinox bascially double the power compared to bosch, but now at least you can log your jumps...

 

[Joecrow]

Really not sure why they bothered with this update, nothing there of much interest to anyone unless maybe you have heart problems but being able to log your jumps will inspire gravel, trekking, and urban bike riders even less than it has done here!

 

[killerade]

A completely pointless update, in my opinion

 

[DylanJM]

A minor update dropping now does not mean there is not a a more comprehensive one dropping later. Give them a break.

The rumors have always Mentioned May for any power updates.