Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

I'm pretty much okay with a chain if removing the swingarm is necessary.

On the other hand, if the swingarm doesn't need to be removed, I'd prefer a belt.

By the way, what is the weight difference between a chain and a belt?
 
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sethimus said:
a lot more chain wrap on the main ring compaired to a traditional hp derailleur design, less chain wrap on the lower pulley vs the 2 of a derailleur. should translate into longer lasting drivetrain parts. i see no advantage in a belt system on the same frame design. you gain less maintenance but more problems in mud. and big problems if you ever encounter a fail when you are out in the weeds.
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Also begs the question of how to tension either a belt or chain on a hardtail, given that complex chain tensioner shown in the pic. should only be necessary for bikes with rear suspension. Thinking of motor cycles (older ones at least) which typically have an rear wheel that can be moved forwards or backwards in the frame to adjust for chain wear. Having said that motor cycles also have rear suspension, the fulcrum of which is not usually at the centre of drive chain sprocket, so is a chain/belt tensioner really necessary on an MGU drive even on full suspension bikes or would it be sufficient to set the chain with sufficient slack to allow for suspension movement and have a shock absorber of some kind built into the drive train somewhere?
 
That's overstating for me. There's no end of people who can't maintain their own bikes, nothing new there. Plenty of broken chains around too. I went through a phase on my current bike of four chains in six weeks, all Shimano I couldn't explain other than speculation, maybe a one off bad batch, who knows? Still running chains though.

As for belts, nothing is insurmountable. If current designs are weak, better ones will follow, the market will see to that as it inevitably does. The guy I ride with who has a Zerode has broken exactly one belt in three years of UK riding & ironically, that was on commute to work, not shredding the trails & unsurprisingly, he carries a spare but I have seen the belt come off in muddy conditions here but even then, that is a comparative rarity. For me, the worst element is requiring a split rear triangle. By definition, that weakens a design while adding a wear point. As with anything mechanical, compromises are inevitable.
 
Joecrow said:
Also begs the question of how to tension either a belt or chain on a hardtail, given that complex chain tensioner shown in the pic. should only be necessary for bikes with rear suspension. Thinking of motor cycles (older ones at least) which typically have an rear wheel that can be moved forwards or backwards in the frame to adjust for chain wear. Having said that motor cycles also have rear suspension, the fulcrum of which is not usually at the centre of drive chain sprocket, so is a chain/belt tensioner really necessary on an MGU drive even on full suspension bikes or would it be sufficient to set the chain with sufficient slack to allow for suspension movement and have a shock absorber of some kind built into the drive train somewhere?
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who the fuck cares about hardtails when we talking geared motors!? use sliding drop outs, job done. now back to what is interesting, long travel full suspension bikes, thanks.
 
RustyMTB said:
For me, the worst element is requiring a split rear triangle. By definition, that weakens a design while adding a wear point. As with anything mechanical, compromises are inevitable.
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only relevant for vpp/some six bars with a fixed rear triangle. most designs these days are 4 bars and these are all openable at the pivots.
 
True but as currently constituted, the choice is removed, the very definition of a compromise.
 
TheSnowShark said:
Okay, but I really don't see myself doing that operation in the mud or out on a ride...
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Again maybe not you but it is not really much more involved than fixing a puncture imo. Wheel off - one bolt, split rear triangle - one bolt, change belt, reverse the steps. The one occasion I have witnessed it, in the dark as it happened, the hardest part was locking off the tensioner pulley but for all I know, that may have been a foible of that particular bike.
 
sethimus said:
and where do you store this 2nd belt during your ride? in a huge ass backpack?
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I mean even for you Seth, that's not very well thought out. 😅 It's a rubber belt, fold it up & stick it in your pocket!
 
RustyMTB said:
I mean even for you Seth, that's not very well thought out. 😅 It's a rubber belt, fold it up & stick it in your pocket!
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you are not supposed to bend them, hence the huge ass packaging they come in.

1783851770060.webp


and no, not made out of rubber:
The belts consist of a continuous loop of polymer with moulded nylon teeth, reinforced by multiple carbon fibre tensile cords.
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www.cyclingabout.com

Gates Carbon Belt Drive: Everything You Ever Need to Know - CYCLINGABOUT.com

Belt drive systems are valued for their low maintenance requirements and typically offer 3-4× the service life of a traditional chain.
www.cyclingabout.com www.cyclingabout.com

have you even had one in your hands before? doesn't sound like it...
 
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My EMTB needs a decent clean after most rides. So wiping the chain, and "Squirting" it adds 10%. A 12 speed shimano linkglide chain is AUD$30. So I'm not losing sleep over changing it every 1500km.

I love my belt on my commuter. But I don't think it's the best tool for the job, in a hard hitting Enduro EMTB.

As far as the tensioners goes. As long as it is placed so no part of it protrudes lower than the brake rotor, on the rear wheel, or the motor bashgard, if placed behind the motor. Then a simple 2 pulley tensioner is fine.

Yes it will be like a derailleur, but there are 3 big differences.

1) It sits up so much higher, so the chance of impact or get caught up, is vastly reduced.
2) If it does get hit and bent a bit. As long as the pulleys still rotate, it will work fine. Unlike a derailleur, where it can screw up the shifting.
3) It won't cost north of $500 to replace, like an AXS Electronic derailleur. Even just the cage on the T-Type can cost $200.
 
sethimus said:
you are not supposed to bend them
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🤔 uh huh. I guess that means you can't ever fit them to a bike in case they might go round sprockets & pulleys in a bending pattern. I am aware Seth that you live for the fight but my guy, you've jumped the shark here in a truly spectacular fashion.
 
i meant twisting. 2nd language. same meaning in german. my point still stands. you can't fit them in a pocket. nor putting it in a backpack without a chance of damaging it.
 
sethimus said:
i meant twisting. 2nd language. same meaning in german. my point still stands. you can't fit them in a pocket. nor putting it in a backpack without a chance of damaging it.
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Yeah that isn't true at all but if it's a hill you wish to die on, then sure, go nuts.
 
I've had to buy a new Gates belt for my E-Motorcycle. Some teeth came off. It's only a 5kW motor, so the belt is similar to my bicycles gates CDN belt. You can roll them up like this and put them in a backpack. I did when I picked it up.

1783854590847.webp


That said. I do carry a spare link for my chain on my EMTB. And it has saved me a long walk out of the National Park. Having changed a belt on my E-Motorcycle. Not sure I would have taken the time to try and fit a new belt to an EMTB in the bush. Breaking the frame and retensioning, is a PITA, without your really good tools.
 
RustyMTB said:
you've jumped the shark here in a truly spectacular fashion.
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I'm pretty sure all these posts should be moved to a new thread called chain or belt to stop the bleed over from the same conversation happening in multiple threads ?? @Moderator

More importantly, are you saying Seth had sex with the snow shark ?

Was bending involved ? Or just twisting ?

Was it kinky ? Ie chains or belts maybe ?
 
Zimmerframe said:
I'm pretty sure all these posts should be moved to a new thread called chain or belt to stop the bleed over from the same conversation happening in multiple threads ?? @Moderator

More importantly, are you saying Seth had sex with the snow shark ?

Was bending involved ? Or just twisting ?

Was it kinky ? Ie chains or belts maybe ?
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I created a new thread on the topic: ECVT/MGU: The Great Belt vs. Chain Debate

@Moderator can move the the posts there. Or we can continue the convo there.
 
Joecrow said:
Also begs the question of how to tension either a belt or chain on a hardtail, given that complex chain tensioner shown in the pic. should only be necessary for bikes with rear suspension. Thinking of motor cycles (older ones at least) which typically have an rear wheel that can be moved forwards or backwards in the frame to adjust for chain wear. Having said that motor cycles also have rear suspension, the fulcrum of which is not usually at the centre of drive chain sprocket, so is a chain/belt tensioner really necessary on an MGU drive even on full suspension bikes or would it be sufficient to set the chain with sufficient slack to allow for suspension movement and have a shock absorber of some kind built into the drive train somewhere?
Click to expand...
If you your EMTB has a floating instant center, as nearly all do, then you will have chain growth and require a spring tensioner. Only concentric wheel path suspensions work without tensioners.
 
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