Why is PX £1100 more than PR Pro?

billium

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Looking at the specs, the two bikes have identical components except the more expensive PX has a smaller battery so why the big difference?
What am I missing?
 
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i was wondering the same and still haven't found the answer :) Paying more for smaller battery that is non removable. The win on Px is around 2kg, but not sure it has been officially confirmed?
The bike shop weighted PX Carbon and it came at 21.8kg without pedals for L size.
 
He said "two bikes have identical components except the battery" although the bikes also have different frames ... and frame is usually the most expensive component of the bike and can easily outprice other components ...
 
He said "two bikes have identical components except the battery" although the bikes also have different frames ... and frame is usually the most expensive component of the bike and can easily outprice other components ...
Ok i see. But why/how would px frame be 1100 more expensive than pr with additional complexity over the removeable battery?

Perhaps they invested in the new 700wh battery but from consumer perspective it is more pricey for less whs.
 
There are very few full power ebikes with such a slim downtube as PX has and to have 1500w/150Nm motor, so you think they can't charge more for PX frames even though it may cost them less to produce it? Well, you are wrong ... I believe each bike will sell like a hot cake (PR for good price point, and PX for being so damn slim + more power) so they can charge as much as market will be willing to pay for it ...
 
There are not many full power ebikes with such a slim downtube as PX, so you think they can't charge more for PX frame even though it may cost them less to produce it? Well, you are wrong ... I believe each bike will sell like a hot cake (PR for good price point, and PX for being so damn slim) so they can charge as much as market will be willing to pay for it ...
Yes, it is not justified better frame, hardware or components - thats why my point.
 
Ok i see. But why/how would px frame be 1100 more expensive than pr with additional complexity over the removeable battery?

Perhaps they invested in the new 700wh battery but from consumer perspective it is more pricey for less whs.
Not everyone is chasing capacity though, plenty of people would prefer dropping a little weight and having better looks if they simply never use the capacity of the 800Wh, which I suspect is a much larger proportion of the customer base than we see here. The average Joe doing leisurely rides for 60-90 minutes is probably never using more than about 400-500Wh or so, even on turbo all the time. I know there are lots of people who do much longer rides, but the fact that Bosch has the majority of their bike companies selling just the 600Wh platform is pretty telling. The 700 is a good sweet spot for a lot of people.
 
the OP was about justifying the higher price based on components which suggested manufacturing costs comparisons angle.
You two are talking about other aspects, which are a bit off-topic IMHO.
 
the OP was about justifying the higher price based on components which suggested manufacturing costs comparisons angle.
You two are talking about other aspects, which are a bit off-topic IMHO.
I think he was just trying to figure out why it's more expensive, his assumption was that it would be components.
 
Quick AI question - price difference seems to be mainly on components. And the PX Pro has an additional years warranty on frame & motor, SIM card, upgraded tubeless valves & frame-wrap.

Component / FeatureAmflow PX Carbon ProAmflow PR Carbon Pro
ForkFOX 36 Factory (Grip X2 Damper, Kashima)FOX 36 Performance (Grip Damper, Black Stanchions)
Rear ShockFOX Float X Factory (Kashima)FOX Float X Performance
DrivetrainSRAM X0 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)SRAM S1000 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)
BrakesMagura Gustav Pro (Next-gen heavy-duty eMTB)Magura Gustav Pro
WheelsetPremium Lightweight Carbon WheelsRobust Alloy Trail Wheels
CockpitIntegrated Carbon Handlebars/StemStandard Alloy Bar & Stem
 
Quick AI question - price difference seems to be mainly on components. And the PX Pro has an additional years warranty on frame & motor, SIM card, upgraded tubeless valves & frame-wrap.

Component / FeatureAmflow PX Carbon ProAmflow PR Carbon Pro
ForkFOX 36 Factory (Grip X2 Damper, Kashima)FOX 36 Performance (Grip Damper, Black Stanchions)
Rear ShockFOX Float X Factory (Kashima)FOX Float X Performance
DrivetrainSRAM X0 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)SRAM S1000 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)
BrakesMagura Gustav Pro (Next-gen heavy-duty eMTB)Magura Gustav Pro
WheelsetPremium Lightweight Carbon WheelsRobust Alloy Trail Wheels
CockpitIntegrated Carbon Handlebars/StemStandard Alloy Bar & Stem

Wrong bike. You need to do PX Carbon vs PR Carbon Pro
 
Quick AI question - price difference seems to be mainly on components. And the PX Pro has an additional years warranty on frame & motor, SIM card, upgraded tubeless valves & frame-wrap.


Component / FeatureAmflow PX Carbon ProAmflow PR Carbon Pro
ForkFOX 36 Factory (Grip X2 Damper, Kashima)FOX 36 Performance (Grip Damper, Black Stanchions)
Rear ShockFOX Float X Factory (Kashima)FOX Float X Performance
DrivetrainSRAM X0 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)SRAM S1000 Eagle Transmission (Wireless T-Type)
BrakesMagura Gustav Pro (Next-gen heavy-duty eMTB)Magura Gustav Pro
WheelsetPremium Lightweight Carbon WheelsRobust Alloy Trail Wheels
CockpitIntegrated Carbon Handlebars/StemStandard Alloy Bar & Stem
I believe they were comparing the PR Pro to the base PX, not the PX Pro based on the cited price difference.
 
Amflow can price it how they like they don't need to justify anything. If they think that a simmer downtube and slightly more power is worth another €1,000 that's their choice. The market can decide if the price they have set is acceptable.
 
Correct. And yes the frames are different but is the PX frame really £1100 more complicated to produce?
It's not about complicated to manufacture. It's about aesthetics and weight. You're paying more because the bike is slimmer, lighter and on paper can deliver the higher power levels for longer, so it's technically more advanced - real world the technology difference will make zero difference to most people.

That's not going to be what everyone wants, but for those that do and are willing to pay more for it, then they'll buy that bike.

For everyone asking the question, clearly it's not the bike for you.
 
Correct. And yes the frames are different but is the PX frame really £1100 more complicated to produce?
The battery itself may also cost them more money to produce, with them being some special kind of new cell, I’m sure the unit economics aren’t as good as they are on the 21700’s in the other packs that they’ve been mass producing for over a year now.
 
Just because both utilize carbon frames doesn't mean their construction is the same. In theory, the PX could have a more complex and sophisticated layup that is more time consuming to produce. Look at golf; aftermarket driver shafts can be <$100, or they can be >$500, yet they're both composite and look identical. They don't act identically though.

Upgraded my head to a GT3 since I created this but you get the idea...

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Everyone is missing the key difference I think. The 700wh battery is an entirely different chemistry to the 800wh. An early video explained that the energy density is greater so that it’s probably actually similar range. But it ALSO allows faster discharge rate which allows it to give 1500w compared to the 1300w on the 800 one.
 
The battery, weight, aesthetics is what you’re paying for in the PX.

Reckon the PR could be more expensive to manufacture due to the complexity of the removable battery. But the 800 battery is also a cycle older, so that brings the price down.
 
Everyone is missing the key difference I think. The 700wh battery is an entirely different chemistry to the 800wh. An early video explained that the energy density is greater so that it’s probably actually similar range. But it ALSO allows faster discharge rate which allows it to give 1500w compared to the 1300w on the 800 one.
Another victim of marketing propaganda.. 700wh < 800wh. The chemistry might very slighly help range but it would be insignificant. Slightly lower ebike weight would also contribute to range but nowhere near the 100wh difference.

It is about discharche rate giving full power.
 
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I think I read somewhere that the new cell type of the 700wh battery could potentially suffer less long term degradation from fast charging.
 
Everyone is missing the key difference I think. The 700wh battery is an entirely different chemistry to the 800wh. An early video explained that the energy density is greater so that it’s probably actually similar range. But it ALSO allows faster discharge rate which allows it to give 1500w compared to the 1300w on the 800 one.
Watt hours is a unit of energy capacity, energy density would refer to how much weight they require to fit that 700Wh into, it doesn’t mean 700Wh is suddenly 800Wh. It would be like claiming some newly engineered design of a 25 gallon gas tank now holds more than 25 gallons… With the same workload and motor a 700Wh battery should always have exactly 12.5% less range than the 800Wh, any difference from that due to the different cells would be negligible.
 
Why the difference?
- Battery :
Not only has different chemestry, weight, size, but also allows M2S motor to perform consistently when using FULL POWER.
Look above, and you will tell the difference. This is possible due to the battery on PX
- Frame
- Result: Less Weight, Mote Power for Much longer


If I was buying an Amflow, I'd pick a PX for the following Reasons:
- I don't need to remove the battery anytime (garage never goes bellow ±15°C, even in coldest Winter days)
- Battery integrated on the frame = Less issues, less possible noises
- Charging at 12A, means +50% (700Wh battery) in about 60min
- Less derate due to thermal load
- Less Weight
- Slimer look
- Only 16% more in Price tag

If I was buying an Amflow, I'd pick a PR for the following Reasons:

- Removable battery, allows to enter anywhere and plug to charge. On long trips, I would take it out, and carry inside the car
- Battery being removable, allows to ride the bike without Battery (eg: Lift access trails)
- Allows to carry/swap batteries in No Men Land
- Also allows Charging at 12A, means +50% (700Wh battery) in about 60min
- 800Wh vs 700Wh
- +16% difference in price TAG. Could be use in a nice trip to Alps, Pirineus, or even Atlas... just saying


16% price difference is to steep? PR
Need to remove Battery to charge, or in Winter time, don't have the space with controlled temperature = PR
Wants to make it lightweight = PX
Wants Slimmer, faster (for longer) = PX


It's easy, when you set all in the table
 
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