Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!

[slavio]

numerous leaks and videos covering the 120nm update mention 600% support will be coming as well. Also, there is no evidence of any of the update stats. Its all rumor till announced. Enough people are saying the same thing though (120nm) which includes the 600% support to say there is some truth to it

Thank you. My personal take is that we'll see a 120 Nm increase only with power staying at 750W. Let's see how it's going to age

 

[Suns_PSD]

The update won't exceed 850-900W due to the 25A physical limit of Bosch batteries; everything else is fantasy. However, Bosch’s superior torque-sensor calibration provides a natural control on technical trails that Avinox’s brute force simply can't match.

Don't need that, but in a way, it would be fun to get a significant 'free upgrade'. The amount doesn't matter much to me, although in the court of public opinion it clearly does.

Can you share at least what brings you to that belief? I have not found any shred of evidence which would indicate increase from 4x to 6x.

600% assistance has been mentioned many, many times. Of course, we could all just be repeating the same one incorrect rumor! We don't have long to wait now.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Naturalness isn’t about the multiplier; it’s about sensor logic. Avinox relies heavily on cadence, often feeling like a 'throttle at your feet.' Bosch is infinitely more connected to the rider because it’s strictly torque-driven, mirroring your leg pressure 1,000 times per second. Even with 900W, Bosch stays an extension of your body, not just a motor that spins when you do.

You've done it now... LOL

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

The update won't exceed 850-900W due to the 25A physical limit of Bosch batteries; everything else is fantasy. However, Bosch’s superior torque-sensor calibration provides a natural control on technical trails that Avinox’s brute force simply can't match.

Source?

 

[Xelius]

Source?

On battery

 

[Brawwp]

Have you guys ridden the Avinox? I’ve literally owned Bosch cx5, brose, and Avinox bikes. Avinox feels way more natural to me. The power comes on very smooth especially in auto which I’m in 99% of the time. Bosch felt jumpy and very unnatural. Brose felt pretty good, but I spent most time on my levo 3 and only 2 full days on levo 4 so hard to say on that.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Source?

Batteries have discharge rates on their specs that using a bit of math can determine their max output, and therefore the motor's max output.

This is why only the new 700wh Avinox battery is capable of the new continuous higher power levels.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

On battery

It that peak or continuous?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Have you guys ridden the Avinox? I’ve literally owned Bosch cx5, brose, and Avinox bikes. Avinox feels way more natural to me. The power comes on very smooth especially in auto which I’m in 99% of the time. Bosch felt jumpy and very unnatural. Brose felt pretty good, but I spent most time on my levo 3 and only 2 full days on levo 4 so hard to say on that.

I've never even seen an Avinox. That said, there is nothing jumpy about my own CXR. It's smooth and gentle the way it applies power. Even in race mode the power is fine for climbing tasks, but I hate the overrun.

Based on reading reviews, the Avinox is better at metering the power slower off the line which is excellent for traction, but it's still more cadence based than torque based.

Both can be true at the same time.

What is also true is that both motors are more than capable of doing what e-bikes need to do, as is the Levo motor and even the Shimano, Gen4 & M1 (last 3 just rattle lots).

 

[Xelius]

It that peak or continuous?

25A is peak! 36Vx25A=900W MAX.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Batteries have discharge rates on their specs that using a bit of math can determine their max output, and therefore the motor's max output.

This is why only the new 700wh Avinox battery is capable of the new continuous higher power levels.

Okay, here's a screengrab of the a powertube:

Discharge: 25V-42V <25A

It's not clear to me whether that's continuous or peak... I'm aware of the Avinox battery and the decision for it. My question, can peak discharge be higher. Based on some quick searching, 2-50C (or times higher) is possible depending on battery chemistry.

 

[Zimmerframe]

25A is peak! 36Vx25A=900W MAX.

Fully charged 36v battery is 42v. so * 25A.

They're probably running voltage compensation though, so under the present system the 25A would be at the lower end of the voltage range so you don't feel like you have less power as the voltage/battery level drops.

All that can change with battery/motor firmware updates.

 

[Brawwp]

I've never even seen an Avinox.

This is what is so frustrating to those of us that have spent a ton of time on multiple motors and we come on here to see strong opinions on something you haven’t even tried.

You guys seem to think avinox owners just care about the peak power and that’s far from true. It’s more like a novelty to the Avinox system. I’m in tuned down auto 99% of the time. It’s way more than power. If you capped Avinox to 750w max with zero ability to derestrict, I would still choose Avinox. The traction control, how the power comes on, the form factor, etc all feels better on Avinox (to me). And I’ve spent more time on Bosch than avinox bikes.

Having said that, I don’t think Bosch needs to focus on peak power. They have other areas they can improve on and you guys could maybe see this if you actually spent some time on the avinox. Bosch is already amazing as-is fyi. Not hating on Bosch at all.

 

[Polar]

Gen4 & M1 (last 3 just rattle lots).

No rattle at all on my Levo 4 not even wen the swat bag is full of tools.

Regarding Amflow and it's stock components - it's the best deal for money, but I definitely would have throw Magura in the bin.

 

[Suns_PSD]

This is what is so frustrating to those of us that have spent a ton of time on multiple motors and we come on here to see strong opinions on something you haven’t even tried.

You guys seem to think avinox owners just care about the peak power and that’s far from true. It’s more like a novelty to the Avinox system. I’m in tuned down auto 99% of the time. It’s way more than power. If you capped Avinox to 750w max with zero ability to derestrict, I would still choose Avinox. The traction control, how the power comes on, the form factor, etc all feels better on Avinox (to me). And I’ve spent more time on Bosch than avinox bikes.

Having said that, I don’t think Bosch needs to focus on peak power. They have other areas they can improve on and you guys could maybe see this if you actually spent some time on the avinox. Bosch is already amazing as-is fyi. Not hating on Bosch at all.

Don't be frustrated, just politely disagree. People can have different opinions. Here is the thing, I was 100% correct about the M1 being less efficient than the competition, and I had never seen one then either. Yet now, Avinox themselves have verified it with the M2 updates. Francis verified that Avinox told him they were shocked he had that info, and 100 other points that indicate this. And all along, Avinox owners were telling me I was incorrect. So ownership can create a blindness as well. Heck just yesterday I guy posted in this very forum how the same ride from his Gen5 to his M1 needed significantly more WH on the M1, even running in low settings.

No rattle at all on my Levo 4 not even wen the swat bag is full of tools.

Regarding Amflow and it's stock components - it's the best deal for money, but I definitely would have throw Magura in the bin.

Levo 4 wasn't one of the last 3 I listed, the Shimano, Gen4 & M1 were.

 

[Polar]

Don't be frustrated, just politely disagree. People can have different opinions. Here is the thing, I was 100% correct about the M1 being less efficient than the competition, and I had never seen one then either. Yet now, Avinox themselves have verified it with the M2 updates. Francis verified that Avinox told him they were shocked he had that info, and 100 other points that indicate this. And all along, Avinox owners were telling me I was incorrect. So ownership can create a blindness as well. Heck just yesterday I guy posted in this very forum how the same ride from his Gen5 to his M1 needed significantly more WH on the M1, even running in low settings.


Levo 4 wasn't one of the last 3 I listed, the Shimano, Gen4 & M1 were.

My bad

 

[Brawwp]

Here is the thing, I was 100% correct about the M1 being less efficient than the competition, and I had never seen one then either. Yet now, Avinox themselves have verified it with the M2 updates. Francis verified that Avinox told him they were shocked he had that info, and 100 other points that indicate this. And all along, Avinox owners were telling me I was incorrect. So ownership can create a blindness as well. Heck just yesterday I guy posted in this very forum how the same ride from his Gen5 to his M1 needed significantly more WH on the M1, even running in low settings.

The efficiency differences are negligible. Eco/trail/auto/emtb+ are all very different assist levels on both bikes. If you truly set both bikes to same wattage, same assist %, the efficiency difference won’t even be a thought.

I can come on here and just say my Avinox bike did 40 miles and still had 40% battery and my Bosch could only get 20 miles. Do you see what I’m saying? Go try the motors yourself before spreading gospel about them because of what some dude said on here. You have no clue how they rode both bikes, the settings, the line choices, etc.

And again to stay on topic, I’d prefer Bosch keep their 750watt max and made changes in other ways. Smaller battery, smaller motor, lighter, refine tuning, etc. Peak power aside I still prefer avinox, but I’d turn back to Bosch immediately if they made the ride feel similar/better than avinox, lighter, smaller, etc even at 750w. Just chasing peak power isn’t going to put Bosch back on the map imo.

 

[OffitThatM8]

The efficiency differences are negligible. Eco/trail/auto/emtb+ are all very different assist levels on both bikes. If you truly set both bikes to same wattage, same assist %, the efficiency difference won’t even be a thought.

I can come on here and just say my Avinox bike did 40 miles and still had 40% battery and my Bosch could only get 20 miles. Do you see what I’m saying? Go try the motors yourself before spreading gospel about them because of what some dude said on here. You have no clue how they rode both bikes, the settings, the line choices, etc.

And again to stay on topic, I’d prefer Bosch keep their 750watt max and made changes in other ways. Smaller battery, smaller motor, lighter, refine tuning, etc. Peak power aside I still prefer avinox, but I’d turn back to Bosch immediately if they made the ride feel similar/better than avinox, lighter, smaller, etc even at 750w. Just chasing peak power isn’t going to put Bosch back on the map imo.

This thread is about the Bosch Gen 5 future updates, if you wanna talk about Avinox being better there is plenty of other threads praising Avinox on this forum that you can go and take part in, statement aside, why do people keep trying to derail this thread about Bosch updates with "Avinox is better"?

Like, Red apple trees might provide apples that are bigger and juicer and provide more crop, but why go into a Green apple tree growing thread just to say you think red apples are better when the topic is on green apples, makes no sense

Do you work for DJI or something?

 

[scarl]

My Bosch gen 5 is perfect for just about everything I ride in NorCal. The EMTB+ that we got last year is so good that I don't rarely Turbo except when tired and or on power hour ride. Another 20nm won't make a huge difference in my ride but sure I do the update. Better to have an not need. I do wish Bosch would allow 28mph like Specialized and Amflow here in the USA. The 20mph is annoying and will likey get more annoying hitting the 20moh faster with 120nm.

 

[PeterHenric]

My Bosch gen 5 is perfect for just about everything I ride in NorCal. The EMTB+ that we got last year is so good that I don't rarely Turbo except when tired and or on power hour ride. Another 20nm won't make a huge difference in my ride but sure I do the update. Better to have an not need. I do wish Bosch would allow 28mph like Specialized and Amflow here in the USA. The 20mph is annoying and will likey get more annoying hitting the 20moh faster with 120nm.

Agreed. Just give us class 3 mode!

 

[Xelius]

Unpopular opinion: Bosch doesn't need more Watts, it needs a 600% multiplier. Reaching max output at 120W of input rather than 200W would make it less 'muscular' and more effective. Look at the Shimano EP801 in the 2024 E-EWS; its ability to deliver peak power earlier makes it a beast on technical climbs compared to the Gen4/Gen5 (85Nm, 600W).

 

[Brawwp]

This thread is about the Bosch Gen 5 future updates, if you wanna talk about Avinox being better there is plenty of other threads praising Avinox on this forum that you can go and take part in, statement aside, why do people keep trying to derail this thread about Bosch updates with "Avinox is better"?

Like, Red apple trees might provide apples that are bigger and juicer and provide more crop, but why go into a Green apple tree growing thread just to say you think red apples are better when the topic is on green apples, makes no sense

Do you work for DJI or something?

I didn’t start the Avinox discussion buddy. Someone else was saying Avinox felt unnatural. And quite a few others were rambling on about the negatives of Avinox when they haven’t ridden one before I even said a word. You didn’t have a problem then did you?

And I also gave my input on Bosch updates. You guys cry about avinox power then make an entire thread hopeful for more Bosch power. I’m simply saying the Bosch doesn’t need the power, but it could use updates in other ways. I like the Bosch. I am hopeful they get back in the game. But just chasing power isn’t going to work. I truly think you haters should actually try an avinox to see why we prefer them. Idk why that’s so hard to understand and shunned to talk about.

 

[trekRailIRL]

This is tedious. It would be good if people just posted if there was more information/leaks/announcements, otherwise post elsewhere....

(Yes, I'm aware of the irony of my post, but felt it needs said)

 

[F4Flyer]

A 28 MPH setting would be nice for places where some pavement or dirt roads are connectors. I'll stick with Bosch and TQ but Bosch should at least do that. On trips I'd carry my extender anyway so not a chance I'll run out of juice in a day, even if I climb 6K

 

[Mario Antony]

from:: 48K views · 272 reactions | Ready for more? Stay tuned. | Bosch eBike Systems

120Nm - that will kick some marbles...

My Bosch gen 5 is perfect for just about everything I ride in NorCal. The EMTB+ that we got last year is so good that I don't rarely Turbo except when tired and or on power hour ride. Another 20nm won't make a huge difference in my ride but sure I do the update. Better to have an not need. I do wish Bosch would allow 28mph like Specialized and Amflow here in the USA. The 20mph is annoying and will likey get more annoying hitting the 20moh faster with 120nm.

Yes!
Best upgrade from Bosch was eMTB+
After derestricting, I really don't fancy anything else.

 

[Brawwp]

A 28 MPH setting would be nice for places where some pavement or dirt roads are connectors. I'll stick with Bosch and TQ but Bosch should at least do that. On trips I'd carry my extender anyway so not a chance I'll run out of juice in a day, even if I climb 6K

This you? Context: talking about doing whatever it takes to ban bikes that exceed class 1. It’s ok if Bosch does it tho apparently.

Sorry for trolling, but it is kind of comical you have to admit.

 

[F4Flyer]

What is comical is comprehension and assumptions.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

. I like the Bosch. I am hopeful they get back in the game.

Back in the game? That’s a stretch. Maybe it works for you, but let’s not pretend Avinox is some universal answer.

Yes, the tech looks flashy—but beyond that, DJI’s entry into the eMTB space feels like a short-term experiment rather than a properly thought-out ecosystem. It’s already getting squeezed from both sides, and that pressure won’t take long to show.

And this push toward 1-year product cycles? That’s not innovation—that’s a fast track to killing residual value. You’ll end up with a flooded second-hand market full of bikes nobody wants once the next version drops.

Great for hype, not so great for riders who actually care about longevity and real-world ownership.

 

[F4Flyer]

It will be interesting to see what Bosch and others do in response to the more-power game. It is a tough one, admittedly. Many buyers are into more and more power but that is a real problem for trail access. Maybe Bosch can do a setting where you can maybe unlock/do 28 MPH in some mode where it is impossible to do that on a trail by limiting watts/torque. Specialized does this with the S-Works but not sure if there is a non-trail mode.

For me, it is all about a reasonable weight, a laterally stiff frame, and good geometry/handling. The orginal Amflow is flexy and has a short stack, not to mention the absence of a range extender. No idea about the new ones but they will keep improving. Just don't overheat and catch on fire while changing....that will be a disaster. It has been a while since I rode a Shimano but I got along with both mine. I need to ride a TQ. All I need is one banger trade and I'll prob get a Trek Fuel+ EX. I'll keep the Shuttle AM though. Wife is getting pissed since I am up to 9 bikes but I have no good solutions.

 

[OffitThatM8]

I didn’t start the Avinox discussion buddy. Someone else was saying Avinox felt unnatural. And quite a few others were rambling on about the negatives of Avinox when they haven’t ridden one before I even said a word. You didn’t have a problem then did you?

And I also gave my input on Bosch updates. You guys cry about avinox power then make an entire thread hopeful for more Bosch power. I’m simply saying the Bosch doesn’t need the power, but it could use updates in other ways. I like the Bosch. I am hopeful they get back in the game. But just chasing power isn’t going to work. I truly think you haters should actually try an avinox to see why we prefer them. Idk why that’s so hard to understand and shunned to talk about.

Whatever makes you feel better buddy.. Anyway, is this new update definitely confirmed for 4th May guys?