Weird Reversed Stem Geo / Chat

[DirkWisely]

The thing you are aiming for is balance. If the front and rear compress evenly when bouncing up and down loading through your feet, and the front doesn’t feel too stiff and the rear doesn’t feel too soft with similar travel usage front and rear on trail, then you are likely in a pretty good spot. If all that looks good and it feels good, then you probably don’t need to change anything further until you find a need or want to experiment. Don’t be afraid to experiment though. You never learn if you don’t experiment.

I just watched your video with Brian Cahal on your downhill prototype bike. The part where you talked about pushing down at various points on the frame was interesting, and the balance seems about right for that test on my bike. I'll definitely be paying attention to it on my Sunday ride.

 

[BeMoreBikes]

Well that was a heck of a data dump, thanks !
So fork setup technically will become more critical with a higher ratio and the rrs.
I think a lot of people are curious about the concept, but are waiting for that definitive "this is the one thing that explains why it works". What I'm interpreting is that it's a sum of a few factors.
The relationship between hand position and wheel flop I find particularly intriguing.

That relationship between hand position and wheel flop is understood best through a new concept I’m introducing to steering dynamics that I call “Hand Lead” and “Frame Lead”.

“Frame Lead” is the exact same as the trail measurement you are likely familiar with just conceptualized as the frame leading the contact patch of the tire instead of the contact patch of the tire trailing behind because I find it a bit more intuitive. You draw a straight line horizontally from the contact patch of the tire forward until it intersect the steering axis extended to the ground.

“Hand Lead” is like trail but specifically looking at the relationship of the hands to the contact patch of the tire relative to the steering axis. You draw a line parallel to the steering axis that intersects the line going across between the grips, and you measure the horizontal along the ground from the contact patch of the tire to where that line parallel to the steering axis intersects the ground.

On a forward offset stem, you have a Hand Lead that is longer than your Frame Lead. On the RR stems Reversed offset, you have a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead but still in front of and leading the contact patch of the tire. Semi similar to how a shorter trail measurement gives less wheelflop and a lighter steering feel at the frame, less hand lead gives less wheel flop and a lighter steering feel at the bars while keeping all the same steering stability of the frames long trail measurement.

The other aspect of the Reversed offset is that since it arcs to the outside of the frame instead of dropping to the inside like a traditional forward stem, it helps put you towards the outside of the frame when the bars are turned. For example in a left hand turn, when you turn the bars to the left, the bars move over to the right a little bit instead of to the left like on a traditional forward stem. In practice since you move your arms pretty much along the same path as usually this means that the frame leans over to the left more when you turn the bars left with a Reversed offset, and less with a forward offset. That additional bike lean when turning the bars helps drive the bike into the turn more with better sideknob engagement, a kinematically tighter turn for a given rotation of the bars, and gives a more predictable drift response.

 

[BeMoreBikes]

I just watched your video with Brian Cahal on your downhill prototype bike. The part where you talked about pushing down at various points on the frame was interesting, and the balance seems about right for that test on my bike. I'll definitely be paying attention to it on my Sunday ride.

Awesome!

 

[Deleted member 37410]

Just went for another ride on a trail I haven't ridden during the winter, and this setup is just so much fun. I get such a feeling of flow and control, its amazing I only have like 40mm spacers, rulezman stem and 80mm bars on the Kenevo, which is low stack to begin with. Not sure what that is in total, ~140mm rise?

I'm getting more and more sure I need to go higher. At that point I will might start to compromise the aesthetics though..

@BeMoreBikes how is it going with your direct mount stem? How high will it be?

 

[irie]

Just went for another ride on a trail I haven't ridden during the winter, and this setup is just so much fun. I get such a feeling of flow and control, its amazing I only have like 40mm spacers, rulezman stem and 80mm bars on the Kenevo, which is low stack to begin with. Not sure what that is in total, ~140mm rise?

I'm getting more and more sure I need to go higher. At that point I will might start to compromise the aesthetics though..

@BeMoreBikes how is it going with your direct mount stem? How high will it be?

Forget "the aesthetics", whatever works best for you is right for you.

 

[BeMoreBikes]

Just went for another ride on a trail I haven't ridden during the winter, and this setup is just so much fun. I get such a feeling of flow and control, its amazing I only have like 40mm spacers, rulezman stem and 80mm bars on the Kenevo, which is low stack to begin with. Not sure what that is in total, ~140mm rise?

I'm getting more and more sure I need to go higher. At that point I will might start to compromise the aesthetics though..

@BeMoreBikes how is it going with your direct mount stem? How high will it be?

Preorders may start in a month or so, and likely will be in 80mm and 100mm Raised heights with a -15mm Reversed offset. Details are still arguably a bit up in the air as I am in prototype stage, but it’s looking promising.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 REECE WILSON on Instagram: "Thrashing it down the steeps!!"

2,593 likes, 16 comments - reecowilson on March 27, 2026: "Thrashing it down the steeps!!".

www.instagram.com

Stan Nisbet on Instagram: "Day of steeps on the flats! Nothing quite like it 👽 @adrenalinuplift @reecowilson"

2,437 likes, 18 comments - stannisbet on March 27, 2026: "Day of steeps on the flats! Nothing quite like it 👽 @adrenalinuplift @reecowilson".

www.instagram.com

 

[Pizzman]

Preorders may start in a month or so, and likely will be in 80mm and 100mm Raised heights with a -15mm Reversed offset. Details are still arguably a bit up in the air as I am in prototype stage, but it’s looking promising.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 REECE WILSON on Instagram: "Thrashing it down the steeps!!"

2,593 likes, 16 comments - reecowilson on March 27, 2026: "Thrashing it down the steeps!!".

www.instagram.com

Stan Nisbet on Instagram: "Day of steeps on the flats! Nothing quite like it 👽 @adrenalinuplift @reecowilson"

2,437 likes, 18 comments - stannisbet on March 27, 2026: "Day of steeps on the flats! Nothing quite like it 👽 @adrenalinuplift @reecowilson".

www.instagram.com

Get some demos to some shops up here in the PNW. It seems interesting. We need our shops to have one we could try. On a bike or to try on ours. Your product is too new and off the charted MTB trajectory of looks, looks, looks, performance.
Give me a chance to try it

 

[BeMoreBikes]

Get some demos to some shops up here in the PNW. It seems interesting. We need our shops to have one we could try. On a bike or to try on ours. Your product is too new and off the charted MTB trajectory of looks, looks, looks, performance.
Give me a chance to try it

If you buy any of my products, and we find working together that we can’t get you to a point that works better for you, you can return it for a refund minus shipping.

 

[Deleted member 37410]

Preorders may start in a month or so, and likely will be in 80mm and 100mm Raised heights with a -15mm Reversed offset. Details are still arguably a bit up in the air as I am in prototype stage, but it’s looking promising.

Looks great the little you can see in the videos. I have bars with rise from like 30 to 80 so adding an extra 50-70 mm from the stem by replacing the rulezman should let me adjust the rest through the bars. Soon time to buy another very expensive custom stem it seems like..

How does -15mm compare to running the rulezman direct mount stem reversed?

Edit: Also make sure they are available in plain aluminum / silver!

 

[TonTonUB]

Hello,

May i ask how you measure the height increase ?
From the base of the stem to the bar center ? Or is it the total height of the attachment to the fork end ?

all in all, looks as much interesting as Rulezman stem. Hope i will be able to afford one (despite the tax war ...).
I also wonder if the amflow front is strong enough for it ?

 

[DirkWisely]

Just got back from a 30 mile ride. Thought I'd share some things I noticed.

1) Cornering felt fantastic. I've been working on leaning the bike and bike body separation when cornering. This just made leaning the bike feel natural and effortless. Uphill hairpins felt great immediately. Downhill hairpins needed a bit more practice but were fine towards the end of the ride.

2) The bars being more towards my waist when seated riding was a noticeable downside if I was being lazy and climbing rock gardens seated. Square edge hits that try to fling my weight forward are harder to catch with the disadvantaged angle. I don't consider this a real downside though, since it's really a result of me riding sloppy when tired.

3) The cockpit is notably smaller. I found that it's harder to get up on the saddle when stopped, as I kept catching my shorts on the saddle. I had to stand/lean forward quite a bit when getting up. I'm thinking I might slide my saddle back a bit.

4) Jumps felt good. I don't do big jumps, but the small ones I do felt good and balanced.

 

[BeMoreBikes]

Just got back from a 30 mile ride. Thought I'd share some things I noticed.

1) Cornering felt fantastic. I've been working on leaning the bike and bike body separation when cornering. This just made leaning the bike feel natural and effortless. Uphill hairpins felt great immediately. Downhill hairpins needed a bit more practice but were fine towards the end of the ride.

2) The bars being more towards my waist when seated riding was a noticeable downside if I was being lazy and climbing rock gardens seated. Square edge hits that try to fling my weight forward are harder to catch with the disadvantaged angle. I don't consider this a real downside though, since it's really a result of me riding sloppy when tired.

3) The cockpit is notably smaller. I found that it's harder to get up on the saddle when stopped, as I kept catching my shorts on the saddle. I had to stand/lean forward quite a bit when getting up. I'm thinking I might slide my saddle back a bit.

4) Jumps felt good. I don't do big jumps, but the small ones I do felt good and balanced.

Awesome! When you get a chance, post a full picture of the bike preferably a side view. I’ll see if there are any glaring adjustments that I recommend for helping some of what you feel so far such as seat or bar position. The points in section 2 I’d say will largly reduce with time getting used to it, and the points in section 3 I’d say can be tuned with setup. Also, how tall are you and what size and year is your levo?

 

[Bufort]

After seeing the Raised reverse stems a couple of years ago I gave it a try, by using direct mount stems reversed. I have an OnOff 10mm, which reversed becomes 0mm (not -10mm due to DM fork mounts being 5mm offset from centre). I also have a flippable Hit'n'Run DM mount for single crown forks, a 15mm Rulezman stem, and 20 and 25mm DM stems, so I was able to test everything from +25 to -25mm stems, taking the pullback of handlebars into account each time too. I tested with bars from about 10mm rise to about 100mm (Renthal DJ bars, NS District, ProTaper pit bike, and some cheap 31.8mm hi rise bars from China.

I came to the conclusion that approx +15mm was the best for me, which depending on bars puts your hands inline with the steerer, essentially a 0mm length. I didn't notice any improvements with a reverse reach.

One thing that is definitely questionable is that the further back your bars are, with the reach of the bike and wheelbase staying the same, the less your weight is over the front wheel.

I've had conversations (arguments/discussions) with the guy from BMB who makes that stem, and I don't agree with everything he says. He makes a lot of scientific claims, but whether these technicalities are actually a benefit or not is still subjective.

Another perceived difference can also be that everyone's buying longer and longer bikes and using a reverse stem is bringing your posture back to how it was 15 years ago, with shorter more nimble bikes.

 

[BeMoreBikes]

After seeing the Raised reverse stems a couple of years ago I gave it a try, by using direct mount stems reversed. I have an OnOff 10mm, which reversed becomes 0mm (not -10mm due to DM fork mounts being 5mm offset from centre). I also have a flippable Hit'n'Run DM mount for single crown forks, a 15mm Rulezman stem, and 20 and 25mm DM stems, so I was able to test everything from +25 to -25mm stems, taking the pullback of handlebars into account each time too. I tested with bars from about 10mm rise to about 100mm (Renthal DJ bars, NS District, ProTaper pit bike, and some cheap 31.8mm hi rise bars from China.

I came to the conclusion that approx +15mm was the best for me, which depending on bars puts your hands inline with the steerer, essentially a 0mm length. I didn't notice any improvements with a reverse reach.

One thing that is definitely questionable is that the further back your bars are, with the reach of the bike and wheelbase staying the same, the less your weight is over the front wheel.

I've had conversations (arguments/discussions) with the guy from BMB who makes that stem, and I don't agree with everything he says. He makes a lot of scientific claims, but whether these technicalities are actually a benefit or not is still subjective.

Another perceived difference can also be that everyone's buying longer and longer bikes and using a reverse stem is bringing your posture back to how it was 15 years ago, with shorter more nimble bikes.

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Howdy. I’m always open to discussion. How tall are you, what reach and stack did the frame have, and what were the combined stem and handlebar heights tested? Also, did you make any suspension and tire pressure adjustments during those tests? Generally I feel we agree more than we disagree as we both see an advantage notably away from traditional forward extending mtb stem geos. There are customers of mine who I advise to run the stem in +15mm also depending on the bike they are using and their motion patterns for their riding style, but typically I suggest starting in -15mm for best cornering and steering dynamics when the bike is properly setup for it.

 

[DirkWisely]

Awesome! When you get a chance, post a full picture of the bike preferably a side view. I’ll see if there are any glaring adjustments that I recommend for helping some of what you feel so far such as seat or bar position. The points in section 2 I’d say will largly reduce with time getting used to it, and the points in section 3 I’d say can be tuned with setup. Also, how tall are you and what size and year is your levo?

I'll do that. Have it taken apart right now as I'm sending the fork in for service.

 

[Bufort]

Howdy. I’m always open to discussion. How tall are you, what reach and stack did the frame have, and what were the combined stem and handlebar heights tested? Also, did you make any suspension and tire pressure adjustments during those tests? Generally I feel we agree more than we disagree as we both see an advantage notably away from traditional forward extending mtb stem geos. There are customers of mine who I advise to run the stem in +15mm also depending on the bike they are using and their motion patterns for their riding style, but typically I suggest starting in -15mm for best cornering and steering dynamics when the bike is properly setup for it.

I tried it on A Kingdom Vendetta (hardtail), Kingdom Void 130, Kingdom El Pugilist, Starling Sturn v2 and Scott Voltage. Reach for the Kingdoms were around 470, Voltage 445, Sturn 460. Stack on these frames was a moot point because I always calculated things by the bar height, as the stems, spacers, etc. always changed, so sometimes it had to be a high stem with a low bar, or vice versa. But they were bikes from 130mm travel fork to 200m travel. I've gone down to a 455 full sus reach / 445 hardtail, using my 15mm stem.

I'm 5'9" but my torso identifies as 5'11" and my legs 5'8". I do tyre pressures by feel, and I probably didn't change them.

Now I'm not saying your stem doesn't make some people faster, but people ride differently, and some people ride badly, and as you're also talking about a change in technique, there's a lot more to it than just the facts that you can throw my way. Did you know for example that I suck? But I also don't time myself on runs, all I care about is having fun, so psychologically that can make a difference. I may have been faster in a corner, but if I had to pull some weird Kama Sutra pose to get round it, I'd sacrifice that 0.1 sec advantage for having what feels more comfortable for me.

 

[Weeksy]

Tried the 65mm rise DMR bars today

I was so so impressed with front end feel but climbing out of saddle too. At a standstill they felt a bit weird, but that was soon forgotten out on trail.

I'm a massive convert, which really surprises me

 

[Bufort]

View attachment 178738
It’s taking notes from the moto world. Bars over/slightly behind fork.

I think it could be made to look ok if it wasn’t so tall then get the rise more out of the bars if needed. I’d be interested in trying one out

This diagram is misleading - the centreline of the fork leg is not indicative of the wheel axle. On a motorcycle it usually is, but even short stem on a MTB fork, in front of the leg centreline can still be behind the wheel axle. The offset is built into the dropouts and the crown.

 

[zizajaun]

Took my medium Geometron G1 (with CYC X1 Stealth motor and DIY battery) to Bike Park Wales on Monday to try out the high bar idea. I'm only 172cm and the reach is something like 490mm so I always had the bars pretty high to compensate, but never this high.

As advertised, it was much better in any situation where going OTB is a concern: steeps, drops, chunky rock gardens, long corners, some jumps. The front wheel did lift a bit on steep climbs, but it wasn't too bad with the current 445mm chainstays (the battery weight helped keep the front down), and they can be extended to about 460mm. I didn't have any problems with front wheel traction on corners.

It wasn't all roses. There's no getting around the fact that higher bars need to be moved a greater distance to achieve a given lean angle. This made quick changes of direction difficult for me, so the high bars didn't seem ideal on tight, twisty, flat sections of trail. The front end also felt a bit flexy under my 110kg of weight; a dual crown fork would be better.

Overall, I'm pretty much sold on the concept for a DH-oriented bike, especially on steeper, more open terrain. I'll need to ride the bike some more on XC-type routes before deciding whether it's suitable for general trail riding.

This presents a problem. I've got a medium Velduro Rogue frameset (466 reach, 410 seat tube, 440 chainstays growing to 450 at sag) arriving on 9 April, but it will be too short to use with a RR stem or ultra high bars. The large has a 485 reach, which would work better with this setup, and I think they are going to increase the chainstay length on the bigger sizes. But I'd have to wait till a later batch, potentially a few months away. It also has a 435 seat tube, which is manageable but longer than I'd like (400 would be ideal for me).

Any advice you can give? I'm wary of committing to the RR stem/ultra high bar concept for a £5,000 purchase based on one ride, but I also don't want to be stuck with an expensive bike that feels too low and/or short. Are there any other ebikes that would work well for this approach?

 

[irie]

But I'd have to wait till a later batch, potentially a few months away. It also has a 435 seat tube, which is manageable but longer than I'd like (400 would be ideal for me).

Any advice you can give? I'm wary of committing to the

What would you lose by waiting and also if the bike you waited for didn't work as planned.

 

[zizajaun]

What would you lose by waiting and also if the bike you waited for didn't work as planned.

I've already paid in full for the Rogue frame so it would be classed as a return, but that's not a huge deal; by UK law we can return it (unused) within 14 days of receipt for a full refund, and I think the Velduro UK site says they'll take it back within 30 days. The bigger loss if I cancel/return it is that I won't have a good bike/motor for a while. The CYC motor is fine for zooming up fire roads, but it's a very unnatural pedalling experience (jerky/surgey when pressing the pedals), noisy, and breaks down a lot. So I was hoping to get something better very soon; I don't want to wait till the end of the summer when the weather turns bad again.

If the Velduro didn't work out, the main loss would be either money (if I decided to resell it) or ride quality (if I decided to make do with an ill-fitting bike). I don't have a lot of spare cash these days - I'm mostly living off student loans - so even losing, say, £1000 by selling it on would be a significant loss.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Just take the Velduro you have coming and enjoy yourself. Cancelling your Summer fun to try and chase down any new fad that might not even work is a bad idea and then you might end up with a wrong sized bike.

Sometimes sticking with the known is the move.

 

[Nobrks]

View attachment 180700View attachment 180699View attachment 180698
Took my medium Geometron G1 (with CYC X1 Stealth motor and DIY battery) to Bike Park Wales on Monday to try out the high bar idea. I'm only 172cm and the reach is something like 490mm so I always had the bars pretty high to compensate, but never this high.

As advertised, it was much better in any situation where going OTB is a concern: steeps, drops, chunky rock gardens, long corners, some jumps. The front wheel did lift a bit on steep climbs, but it wasn't too bad with the current 445mm chainstays (the battery weight helped keep the front down), and they can be extended to about 460mm. I didn't have any problems with front wheel traction on corners.

It wasn't all roses. There's no getting around the fact that higher bars need to be moved a greater distance to achieve a given lean angle. This made quick changes of direction difficult for me, so the high bars didn't seem ideal on tight, twisty, flat sections of trail. The front end also felt a bit flexy under my 110kg of weight; a dual crown fork would be better.

Overall, I'm pretty much sold on the concept for a DH-oriented bike, especially on steeper, more open terrain. I'll need to ride the bike some more on XC-type routes before deciding whether it's suitable for general trail riding.

This presents a problem. I've got a medium Velduro Rogue frameset (466 reach, 410 seat tube, 440 chainstays growing to 450 at sag) arriving on 9 April, but it will be too short to use with a RR stem or ultra high bars. The large has a 485 reach, which would work better with this setup, and I think they are going to increase the chainstay length on the bigger sizes. But I'd have to wait till a later batch, potentially a few months away. It also has a 435 seat tube, which is manageable but longer than I'd like (400 would be ideal for me).

Any advice you can give? I'm wary of committing to the RR stem/ultra high bar concept for a £5,000 purchase based on one ride, but I also don't want to be stuck with an expensive bike that feels too low and/or short. Are there any other ebikes that would work well for this approach?

Get the geometry dialed before you commit to a new bike , measure your RAD and how far your bike setup is matching your body RAD.
490reach looks long compared to 172cm height.
Try reversing the stem on current bike, with the high rise bar it will compensate for the "long reverserd" stem, in a way that grips will not be that far behind the steerer tube. for every 10mm in bar-rise the stem "shortens " by 4-5mm

 

[irie]

I've already paid in full for the Rogue frame so it would be classed as a return, but that's not a huge deal; by UK law we can return it (unused) within 14 days of receipt for a full refund, and I think the Velduro UK site says they'll take it back within 30 days. The bigger loss if I cancel/return it is that I won't have a good bike/motor for a while. The CYC motor is fine for zooming up fire roads, but it's a very unnatural pedalling experience (jerky/surgey when pressing the pedals), noisy, and breaks down a lot. So I was hoping to get something better very soon; I don't want to wait till the end of the summer when the weather turns bad again.

If the Velduro didn't work out, the main loss would be either money (if I decided to resell it) or ride quality (if I decided to make do with an ill-fitting bike). I don't have a lot of spare cash these days - I'm mostly living off student loans - so even losing, say, £1000 by selling it on would be a significant loss.

If it were me I would go with the Rogue which is the right size and enjoy the summer riding.

 

[Bufort]

Get the geometry dialed before you commit to a new bike , measure your RAD and how far your bike setup is matching your body RAD.
490reach looks long compared to 172cm height.
Try reversing the stem on current bike, with the high rise bar it will compensate for the "long reverserd" stem, in a way that grips will not be that far behind the steerer tube. for every 10mm in bar-rise the stem "shortens " by 4-5mm

Not exactly, high rise bars don't shorten the stem, they shorten the reach. So if you reverse your stem and have -35mm reach, the high bars won't make that seem like -20mm, it will add to it, making the end result seem like -50mm. And 10mm rise is more like 2-3mm reduction in reach.

An 80mm rise bar on a reversed 35mm stem would put the bar ends approx 45mm behind the steerer tube, compared with 25mm in front of it the correct way round.

 

[ntm95]

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I'm normally a function over form kind of guy, but that is quite an abortion

 

[James_MTB]

Wow, wow, wow, I'm all in.

It feels more confident and reassuring, almost like a cheat code, lol. The corners feel sharper with less jack-knifing, which greatly boosts your confidence on steep sections.

I'm using the 35mm AEROZINE XNC-10 Stem, which comes with 4 spacers (5, 6, 10, and 20mm), a top cap & bolt, plus a star nut. I highly recommend it.

Yes, the stem spins, but not once you tighten the bolts.

 

[zizajaun]

I'm normally a function over form kind of guy, but that is quite an abortion

And yet, somehow I still enjoy riding it - almost as if it doesn't really matter what the bike looks like.

 

[zizajaun]

Wow, wow, wow, I'm all in.

It feels more confident and reassuring, almost like a cheat code, lol. The corners feel sharper with less jack-knifing, which greatly boosts your confidence on steep sections.

I'm using the 35mm AEROZINE XNC-10 Stem, which comes with 4 spacers (5, 6, 10, and 20mm), a top cap & bolt, plus a star nut. I highly recommend it.

Yes, the stem spins, but not once you tighten the bolts.


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Was the bike too long for you originally? Super high bars work well on my Geometron, but that's got a 490 reach and I'm 172cm, so it's good that it brings the bars closer to me (350mm 'grip reach' currently). I briefly owned an S3 Stumpjumper Evo and tried using it with a 180 fork and 75mm rise bars, but it felt way too short.

 

[DirkWisely]

Awesome! When you get a chance, post a full picture of the bike preferably a side view. I’ll see if there are any glaring adjustments that I recommend for helping some of what you feel so far such as seat or bar position. The points in section 2 I’d say will largly reduce with time getting used to it, and the points in section 3 I’d say can be tuned with setup. Also, how tall are you and what size and year is your levo?

Got my fork back and installed. I'm 5-11 and it's a s4.