Pre-order starts next month - Next Crestline Avinox frame set

[Jacques]

Welcome to the family!

I was considering going for the "podium" for my upcoming girl, and will give you my reasoning for "NOT" doing so.

1 - Fox does not offer this in a 180mm, and you bet I certainly want a 180 fork on my 180 frame.
2- Not too mention with that less travel, you get MORE WEIGHT! (2695g VS 2194g on the 38).
3- Same X2 damper on a heavier fork doesnt sound like a massive upgrade for most scenarios in my mind.

But wait there's more!

4- Not only do you get less travel with 23% more weight, but this thing will set you back $2,099 vs $1309?!!

Summary - Costs 67% more to get the same dampers, 6% less travel, and 23% more weight. No thank you Fox!

Even as sexy as my eyeballs say it is, I simply cannot justify adding that much weight and cost without significant gains for everywhere I am riding. For the Crestline, they even suggest to grab a shorter shock if you want to run a 170. Again, additional costs with limiting benefit.

Oh yeah, and the 38 is just great already!!

Sorry, I know you only asked for 1 reason.

Thanks for the detailed response! And sorry for the delay to anyone who responded a couple days after my initial question, got a bit involved with life and forgot to check back on the forum

I've been burned buying the sexy bling that doesn't perform in the past and that little voice was telling me 170mm Inverted wasn't the right choice for this bike, I think I'm going to settle for Fox 38 180mm

 

[Singletrackmind]

Thanks for the detailed response! And sorry for the delay to anyone who responded a couple days after my initial question, got a bit involved with life and forgot to check back on the forum

I've been burned buying the sexy bling that doesn't perform in the past and that little voice was telling me 170mm Inverted wasn't the right choice for this bike, I think I'm going to settle for Fox 38 180mm

I'm running a RockShox ZEB Ultimate with a DSD Runt on my Crestline S180 and am VERY happy with the way it performs. Had a local suspension guru resize and burnish the bushing on the Zeb and the small bump compliance is amazing!

The DSD Runt really adds to the performance factor as well. You have individual high and low chamber psi settings that give a plush ride, but doesn't dive in the turns.

 

[digitale]

I'm running a RockShox ZEB Ultimate with a DSD Runt on my Crestline S180 and am VERY happy with the way it performs. Had a local suspension guru resize and burnish the bushing on the Zeb and the small bump compliance is amazing!

The DSD Runt really adds to the performance factor as well. You have individual high and low chamber psi settings that give a plush ride, but doesn't dive in the turns.

Zeb + MRP Lift Damper + MRP Noken has been great for me. I'm moving the same setup over to the RS181.2. Tempted to get that shiny new Zeb when it drops, but I imagine it's not going to work as good as my Zeb(or yours) out of the box.

 

[mrtrinh]

Zeb + MRP Lift Damper + MRP Noken has been great for me. I'm moving the same setup over to the RS181.2. Tempted to get that shiny new Zeb when it drops, but I imagine it's not going to work as good as my Zeb(or yours) out of the box.

Im in the same boat. Really tempted by the new zeb but I have a tuned 3.1 zeb by fluid focus and its just perfection. Im 100% replacing my vivid coil with the telum. Im 150lbs so I always need custom tuned suspension.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Im in the same boat. Really tempted by the new zeb but I have a tuned 3.1 zeb by fluid focus and its just perfection. Im 100% replacing my vivid coil with the telum. Im 150lbs so I always need custom tuned suspension.

I have a FF tune Zeb 3.1 too that's simply amazing but if the new Zeb gets the Boxxer updates it could be sensational. I just picked up the new Vivid Ultimate coil, going immediately to FF but I'm looking forward to coil after being on air for years. The 181 has allowed me to ride fast and bigger than ever and the Vivid air, even though FF tuned as well, just doesn't can't match the Zeb in the fast, rough stuff.

 

[Brawwp]

View attachment 177594

Hey @Rob Rides EMTB were these the b1 mavens? Or have you had a chance to try the b1s yet and have an opinion on them vs the OG mavens?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hey @Rob Rides EMTB were these the b1 mavens? Or have you had a chance to try the b1s yet and have an opinion on them vs the OG mavens?

I have the new B1 mavens. Reduced effort needed to pull, maybe less power than the OG mavens, due to moving down to 4 x 18mm pistons from 2 x 19.5 & 2 x 18mm on the originals.

Decent brakes for sure. Helped in finale Ligure trails, Little Champery, Pino Morto & Men’s DH today

 

[Brawwp]

I have the new B1 mavens. Reduced effort needed to pull, maybe less power than the OG mavens, due to moving down to 4 x 18mm pistons from 2 x 19.5 & 2 x 18mm on the originals.

Decent brakes for sure. Helped in finale Ligure trails, Little Champery, Pino Morto & Men’s DH today

View attachment 178203

View attachment 178204

Still on the crestline too! Can’t wait for that review video.

I may go OG mavens, then just do the upgrade kit if I’m not happy with the stock version to get the benefit of those two bigger pistons. I like the black maven look so much better than the ultimate. They’re pretty big looking on the bars and the ultimate just looks busy on there being silver in color.

 

[E-NUB]

Couple more. Unbelievably fast and nice n quiet!

Thanks for all you do here and on your channel! The teaser pics are so sweet, and confirming the quiet factor made this thing much better already in my mind.

I admit when I read the new Plaid would be "hands down the most powerful and quietest eeb we’ve released to date, up and down" this led me to think it would have some serious updates to address the rattling issues many have reported...

and one of many reasons I felt confident scooping one up for myself!

 

[ntm95]

Thanks for all you do here and on your channel! The teaser pics are so sweet, and confirming the quiet factor made this thing much better already in my mind.

I admit when I read the new Plaid would be "hands down the most powerful and quietest eeb we’ve released to date, up and down" this led me to think it would have some serious updates to address the rattling issues many have reported...

and one of many reasons I felt confident scooping one up for myself!

I'm curious if there has been a change in the rear triangle layup. Seems like now would be a good time to increase the rigidity a bit.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

I'm curious if there has been a change in the rear triangle layup. Seems like now would be a good time to increase the rigidity a bit.

I'm curious what makes you think it needs more rigidity? VPP has some of the least frame compliance laterally.

 

[Brawwp]

I'm curious if there has been a change in the rear triangle layup. Seems like now would be a good time to increase the rigidity a bit.

Rigidity will be a trend. Right now everyone thinks they want rigid rigid rigid. This will eventually go back to wanting some compliance. Both have their pros/cons. This trend of back and forth too rigid/not rigid enough is already ongoing in moto.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Rigidity will be a trend. Right now everyone thinks they want rigid rigid rigid. This will eventually go back to wanting some compliance. Both have their pros/cons. This trend of back and forth too rigid/not rigid enough is already ongoing in moto.

I'd say it's already happening. Look at what Commecal and any quality carbon rim company like WAO are doing, they're looking to tune for more lateral compliance.

 

[Brawwp]

I'd say it's already happening. Look at what Commecal and any quality carbon rim company like WAO are doing, they're looking to tune for more lateral compliance.

Yeah I think I saw something on the nobl wheelsets about adding in more compliance. Pretty funny how trends go.

If you follow moto, sexton has been asking for oem triple clamps for more front end compliance over the trick factory triple clamps. Then there’s always ktm group vs the Japanese bikes on frame flex and there’s a lot of situations where the more flex ktm group bikes shine.

 

[E-NUB]

No mention of more rigidity or rear triangle improvements specifically, but Troydon "gave you his word this frame will make you feel sharper on the tools than ever before" either way!

There is always a compromise between rigidity and compliance to balance out, and a bunch of other factors going on at the same time too. Getting the suspension/geo setup properly for yourself will go a long ways to get the ride you like.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Yeah I think I saw something on the nobl wheelsets about adding in more compliance. Pretty funny how trends go.

If you follow moto, sexton has been asking for oem triple clamps for more front end compliance over the trick factory triple clamps. Then there’s always ktm group vs the Japanese bikes on frame flex and there’s a lot of situations where the more flex ktm group bikes shine.

Trends and the need to sell us something new, ha. BUT I do see and have felt the benefits of balanced compliance after running through a set of carbon wheels that were iron stiff. The 181 is stout for sure, which is confidence inspiring but the WAO Triads (vs the i9's I ran when I busted a WAO) make a positive affect as well as... this

. Getting the suspension/geo setup properly for yourself will go a long ways to get the ride you like.

 

[Scford]

Go shmaven if you want real power , in all seriousness I wasn’t happy with the lever feel on the mavens so swapped to xt levers and they feel phenomenal. If you like shimano brakes you’ll like them, if you like sram brakes you probably wont like them. Very on/off feel with loads of power.

 

[FrogSkunk]

Rigidity will be a trend. Right now everyone thinks they want rigid rigid rigid. This will eventually go back to wanting some compliance. Both have their pros/cons. This trend of back and forth too rigid/not rigid enough is already ongoing in moto.

I feel like a lot of that comes down to what you want out of your bike. My experience has been compliance over rigidity. Of course there are caveats and you dont want to go too far one way or the other.

I have a set of Nobl tr41s and tr37s and prefer the 37s alllll day. The 37s are still crazy ‘rigid’ but offer a ride thats just more comfortable. At 46 yrs young, it allows me to put more laps in. If I was younger, and trying to shave milliseconds, Id rock the 41’s for sure.

Funny, I was just diving deep into Berd spokes and some of the videos were from 3-4 years ago, when the trends were looking for compliance. At any rate, I ordered a set of wheels this week with Berd spokes for the Plaid. Hopefully I dont have buyers remorse. That said, I did get a killer deal

 

[MTBLane504]

I feel like a lot of that comes down to what you want out of your bike. My experience has been compliance over rigidity. Of course there are caveats and you dont want to go too far one way or the other.

I have a set of Nobl tr41s and tr37s and prefer the 37s alllll day. The 37s are still crazy ‘rigid’ but offer a ride thats just more comfortable. At 46 yrs young, it allows me to put more laps in. If I was younger, and trying to shave milliseconds, Id rock the 41’s for sure.

Funny, I was just diving deep into Berd spokes and some of the videos were from 3-4 years ago, when the trends were looking for compliance. At any rate, I ordered a set of wheels this week with Berd spokes for the Plaid. Hopefully I dont have buyers remorse. That said, I did get a killer deal

I just ordered a set of nobl tr37 with onyx classic hook flange with berd spokes for my plaid. I'm kinda going back and forth if I should have went tr41? I'm pretty light at 145 lbs kitted up and 35 years old. Do you think I made the right choice going 37 or should I try to swap to 41?

 

[jej737]

I feel like a lot of that comes down to what you want out of your bike. My experience has been compliance over rigidity. Of course there are caveats and you dont want to go too far one way or the other.

I have a set of Nobl tr41s and tr37s and prefer the 37s alllll day. The 37s are still crazy ‘rigid’ but offer a ride thats just more comfortable. At 46 yrs young, it allows me to put more laps in. If I was younger, and trying to shave milliseconds, Id rock the 41’s for sure.

Funny, I was just diving deep into Berd spokes and some of the videos were from 3-4 years ago, when the trends were looking for compliance. At any rate, I ordered a set of wheels this week with Berd spokes for the Plaid. Hopefully I dont have buyers remorse. That said, I did get a killer deal

Where is the killer deal from? Thanks

 

[FrogSkunk]

I just ordered a set of nobl tr37 with onyx classic hook flange with berd spokes for my plaid. I'm kinda going back and forth if I should have went tr41? I'm pretty light at 145 lbs kitted up and 35 years old. Do you think I made the right choice going 37 or should I try to swap to 41?

Ha! Funny, we ordered the same set of wheels aside from color maybe. I went with Onyx’s color of the month(ano matte bronze) and white Berds!

I placed my order before my deep dive on the spokes. Like you, I am now wondering if the 41’s would have been better considering the compliance with the Berd spokes. Im at 215pounds kitted, so I have a big weight penalty compared to you.

At the end of the day, its not really right or wrong, but the feel you are after. You will love the 37’s, especially at your weight. What type of riding are you going to be doing might be a question to help with the decision between 37’s/41’s. You will be more than happy with them.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Ha! Funny, we ordered the same set of wheels aside from color maybe. I went with Onyx’s color of the month(ano matte bronze) and white Berds!

I placed my order before my deep dive on the spokes. Like you, I am now wondering if the 41’s would have been better considering the compliance with the Berd spokes. Im at 215pounds kitted, so I have a big weight penalty compared to you.

At the end of the day, its not really right or wrong, but the feel you are after. You will love the 37’s, especially at your weight. What type of riding are you going to be doing might be a question to help with the decision between 37’s/41’s. You will be more than happy with them.

Far more of wheel compliance is based on the rim than the spokes. I'd even put spoke tension above spoke material. My understanding with Berd is their benefits are more vibration dampening and lighter weight compared to double butted.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I've bought 3 sets of Berd spokes and they are amazing on my ex-wife's bike, as she is a novice and weighs 110#s and the bike is a 27.5" anyways. I actually stuck her previous Knight CF rear wheel on to my own bike to test mullet and it was an unbelievably harsh wheel, and I'm much heavier and faster than she is.
The Berds are also really awesome on my weight weenie trail bike, a 28# Smuggler (I weigh 180#s btw).
But when I blew up my rear DH rim on my e-bike I put in service some old Berd wheels I had on to my Relay, and honestly, I don't love them. It's not a big deal most of the time but they struggle to hold a line when truly pinned. They just move too much. Like if you are going 15+ mph through a fast turn, it feels like the wheel is flexing and moving under you and causes me to slow down.
Now I will tell you that these are older, well used, and the spokes almost certainly need to be retensioned. But the rims they were built on are in fact heavy duty and appropriate for the application.
I once sent a Berd wheel in for relacing when I killed a hub, in fact it's the rear wheel that's on my Relay currently, and Charlie and the guys at Berd said it was the most stretched and frayed Berds they had ever come across. At the time I was riding a lot and aggressively and these were on my '21 SJEvo. They were excited to see them and then they warrantied them at no cost (amazing service from those guys). The ride feel is amazing, but I don't know that you notice that really on a 50# e-bike with DH tires. I mean, I don't even like the compliance of a radial tire in this application, too squishy. Berds are super reliable btw, more reliable than steel spokes ime.
I still believe in the product and might order their new super light wheel set for my gf's XC bike. But once again, she weighs 105#s and is a novice. Perfect for her.
So, I am a big fan of the Berd product, and I also know that they have a new thicker spoke as well, but for me I went back to normal spokes for next e-bike wheel build.
IMO, the 2 best wheelsets made when you are not super weight sensitive so ideal for an e-bike are the Enve M7/ 9s & the Crankbrothers Synthesis DH rims (which I have bought). These are wheels that are known to provide a particularly consistent ride feel when ridden at a high pace on a heavy bike.
Also, I wouldn't touch Onyx hubs. The front hub has a poor interface and leads to excessive front-end flex and definitely rules out any USD fork. The rear is unreliable, heavy, and just increases pedal kickpack. Just no.
Sorry, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but just providing my own experiences. If you are a lot lighter, have new product, ride differently than I, re-tension your spokes more often, your experience will be wildly different.

I have a set of Berd 29" wheels that I'd sell for maybe $600 shipped in the next 45 days as they will be coming off my Relay. With a re-tension I'd consider them perfect wheels for an All Mountain trail bike.

 

[TTEngineer]

Trends and the need to sell us something new, ha. BUT I do see and have felt the benefits of balanced compliance after running through a set of carbon wheels that were iron stiff. The 181 is stout for sure, which is confidence inspiring but the WAO Triads (vs the i9's I ran when I busted a WAO) make a positive affect as well as... this

Stiffness and compliance will vary rider to rider though. What feels stiff to even a hard charging rider that weighs 150lbs, will feel super compliant to me an average rider at 230lbs.

The whole argument over stiff and compliant is a waste of time if you ask me. There are too many variables.

I also feel this way with pedal kick back. Everyone loves to cycle the suspension while the bike isn't moving to show the cranks move, making an argument for a pedal kick back device. But most, if not all, riders drop their heels and put rearward moment on the cranks, so are your really going to "feel" that kickback.

I think its all a placebo effect in the end for 99% of people.

 

[TTEngineer]

I've got an onyx hub and Berd spokes mated to Reserve Rims on my Ripmo.

The vibration damping CAN NOT BE UNDERSTATED. Its the quietest smoothest ridding wheel I've ever experienced. The spoke juju is real. I'll never ride another wheel as far as I'm concerned.

Planning on ordering another set from Berd for the 181.2.

 

[MTBLane504]

Ha! Funny, we ordered the same set of wheels aside from color maybe. I went with Onyx’s color of the month(ano matte bronze) and white Berds!

I placed my order before my deep dive on the spokes. Like you, I am now wondering if the 41’s would have been better considering the compliance with the Berd spokes. Im at 215pounds kitted, so I have a big weight penalty compared to you.

At the end of the day, its not really right or wrong, but the feel you are after. You will love the 37’s, especially at your weight. What type of riding are you going to be doing might be a question to help with the decision between 37’s/41’s. You will be more than happy with them.

I went with Gold ano and black berds. Riding wise my local trail is more trail/jump oriented but do make the frequent trips to bike parks and enjoy some dh rock gardens.

 

[E-NUB]

I too am running WAO Triad, Berd spokes, and them sweet Onyx Classic hubs.

LOVE these things, quiet, smooth, light, and handle like a dream!!

Compliant yet rigid, if you will..

So good I dont even need to buy another wheelset for this thing...!

 

[polymathic]

Funny, last night I thought of asking if anyone was planning on a Berd wheelset for the Crestline. I have been intrigued by these, and thinking of getting a set instead of a Reserves HD. Is anyone running these with the standard spokes, or all of you are using the thicker Extreme spokes? Considering these as I'm a pretty light rider at 150#, and would like to keep the Crestline build reasonably light.

 

[Onetime]

I’ve had Berd wheels for several years now, first on my 180/180 Amish bike, then on my last 2 e-bikes, (same wheelset on both). Tune hubs, LB 27.5 x 40i carbon rims and Berd spokes, ridden hard, and fast on So Cal black trails, mostly in OC (on my 190/200 with my 40 or 190/180 with my Lift equipped 38) CX Race equipped Voima. The wheelset has been incredibly reliable and durable as well as comfortable and compliant. Great vibration damping, small chatter and braking bump muting. They’re super light, (1520g) and strong. I’ll never run regular spoked wheels again. On an unrelated note, but mentioned above, pedal kickback is definitely a real thing and I feel it every time I land a larger drop while in race mode. Race mode has pretty long overrun and when I land a drop the bike will lurch forward as if I just put in a hard pedal stroke. Its unexpected and can be a little unnerving, but it’s not as noticeable in the other modes and I can reduce the amount of overrun, but I like it on steep tech climbs. I don’t currently use any kickback device and I’m not sure if I will in the future. We’ll see if it is a problem on the Plaid. And I’ll be transferring the wheels from my current ebike to the Plaid when it arrives.

 

[polymathic]

I’ve had Berd wheels for several years now, first on my 180/180 Amish bike, then on my last 2 e-bikes, (same wheelset on both). Tune hubs, LB 27.5 x 40i carbon rims and Berd spokes, ridden hard, and fast on So Cal black trails, mostly in OC (on my 190/200 with my 40 or 190/180 with my Lift equipped 38) CX Race equipped Voima. The wheelset has been incredibly reliable and durable as well as comfortable and compliant. Great vibration damping, small chatter and braking bump muting. They’re super light, (1520g) and strong. I’ll never run regular spoked wheels again. On an unrelated note, but mentioned above, pedal kickback is definitely a real thing and I feel it every time I land a larger drop while in race mode. Race mode has pretty long overrun and when I land a drop the bike will lurch forward as if I just put in a hard pedal stroke. Its unexpected and can be a little unnerving, but it’s not as noticeable in the other modes and I can reduce the amount of overrun, but I like it on steep tech climbs. I don’t currently use any kickback device and I’m not sure if I will in the future. We’ll see if it is a problem on the Plaid. And I’ll be transferring the wheels from my current ebike to the Plaid when it arrives.

Are you using the Extreme spokes or regular on that wheel set?