I’m not in the US…
The point was you enjoy access with e-bikes everywhere a standard pedal cycle can go precisely because of the restriction regulations, not because you choose to ignore them.
What the hell to do with my perfect condition emtb?
- Thread starter steve_sordy
- Start date
I’m not in the US…
The point was you enjoy access with e-bikes everywhere a standard pedal cycle can go precisely because of the restriction regulations, not because you choose to ignore them.
Why are you trying to derail the thread with derestricting regulations ?
My point was you cannot ride a 450cc motor-cross bike in the National Park. But you can ride an EMTB restricted to 25kph. Which when I'm riding in the National Park, mine are. Park Rangers enforce the 25kph limit. And it's a massive fine if you get caught. They get you for riding unregistered and unlicensed. About $2K in fines.
Anyway. The thread is about someone who is considering buying an Amflow. I'm leaving it there. As I said. If you have opinions about derestriction. Take it to the derestriction area.
My group of about 10 buddies are the most competitive bunch of men I know. One has just returned from the Australian Masters Pickleball Championships, where he won the over 65 Australian doubles championship. There's no giving 50%.
We play Squash, Pickleball, Golf, Race Go Carts, Alpine Skiing and ride EMTBs. Everything is a competition. And we have a saying in Australia. "Mate ...... We're not playing for sheep stations". Well ......... sheep stations are being traded left, right and centre with my buddies.
So I'm going to claim any victory. Mountain Biking and Alpine Skiing is where I win my sheep stations. So I'll take any edge I can get. And the Amflow gives me a huge edge.
It's 42 slots and allows the bike to measure any wheelspin every 50mm the bike moves forward, instead of about 2.2 metres, with a single sensor.
Yep, exactly this. I was climbing a steep rock on the weekend. I heard the wheel start to spin, then I immediately felt the power back off , to stop the wheel spin. It's a bit like the blip in reduced power you get when gear changing, and you have chain protection on. It just reduces the wheelspin, and keeps the power delivery smooth.
And the Amflow gives me a huge edge.
Uphill. And we should probably clarify, it’s the Avinox bit, not the Amflow that’s making the difference (Now a very small difference compared to others).
Anyway, to the OP, just buy the bike, just buy a better one than an Amflow.
This is the biggest problem. I always test ride my EMTBs before purchase. And Amflow has been the only Avinox powered EMTB that any LBS had test rides for.
I am keen to try the Velduro Rogue and the Avinox powered Crestline. But these bikes are just so expensive. I'm not buying them without a test ride. I'm sure they'll ride fine. But they have to ride better for my style of riding. Not the style of riding some Ex-downhill champion, now doing you-tube videos.
FFS! Says the gossamer thin skinned guy who tries to derail any constructive discussion around anything Amflow unless it’s glowing praise. You still don’t get this do you, on a Bosch Bike the wheel speed sensor isn’t measuring ‘wheel spin’, it’s just measuring speed.
Torque sensors in the motor detect wheel slip, and back off the assist the same as on your Avinox. Why do people still keep going on like no other bike has it? They all do, just not via a rear wheel ring sensor.
Yes and no. The Unno Mith was tested against the Amflow and many other EMTBs recently. And whilst it slayed the Amflow downhill. The Amflow had a significant time advantage on the climbs compared to the Mith.
My group of about 10 buddies are the most competitive bunch of men I know. One has just returned from the Australian Masters Pickleball Championships, where he won the over 65 Australian doubles championship. There's no giving 50%.
We play Squash, Pickleball, Golf, Race Go Carts, Alpine Skiing and ride EMTBs. Everything is a competition. And we have a saying in Australia. "Mate ...... We're not playing for sheep stations". Well ......... sheep stations are being traded left, right and centre with my buddies.
So I'm going to claim any victory. Mountain Biking and Alpine Skiing is where I win my sheep stations. So I'll take any edge I can get. And the Amflow gives me a huge edge.
Cool story Bro, I think? Bontee
Active member
Is the Amflow retricted to 250w in the UK like other “legal” emtbs are or does it still retain the rider discretion facility to choose upto 1000w at the flick of a switch.
I know that ,for example, I cannot access higher speeds or powers on my EP8 as it is for the UK market.
Is the Amflow the same ?
I know that ,for example, I cannot access higher speeds or powers on my EP8 as it is for the UK market.
Is the Amflow the same ?
I have researched this thoroughly and the only torque sensor in the Bosch CX motor is the one measuring pedal force. This won't prevent wheelspin. I am providing documentation from Bosch to confirm.
You still don’t get this do you, on a Bosch Bike the wheel speed sensor isn’t measuring ‘wheel spin’, it’s just measuring speed.
Torque sensors in the motor detect wheel slip, and back off the assist the same as on your Avinox. Why do people still keep going on like no other bike has it? They all do, just not via a rear wheel ring sensor.
Do you have any other documentation, regarding other Torque Sensors ? I can find none.
Its ’restricted’ in the same way other e-bikes are, ie it produces a nominal 250w but peak power is higher like on all EMTBs.
Currently, it restricts itself to wherever in the world it is setup, and with a VPN you can be anywhere in the world as far as the bike is concerned.
At the risk of playing pigeon chess with you, there’s also cadence and various MEMS sensors to detect angle and yaw moments etc.
Performance Line CX: the most sporty Bosch motor for eMTBs
The best eMountain bike experiences: a powerful drive with unique dynamics and the best possible traction on trails thanks to the 85-Nm Performance Line CX.
www.bosch-ebike.com
You need to be clearer with your language, your Avinox doesn’t ’prevent’ wheel spin either, it detects it first then reduces power.
A Bosch motor does exactly the same, just doesn’t use the rear wheel ring sensor. Design and engineering choices, at the end of the day, and I know it does it because I ride a Bosch (amongst others).
Just ignore it then?!
Yes. The Amflow is restricted to 25kph and 250 watts of continuous power in the UK. It can peak above this value, right up to 1000 watts. But continued usage above 250 watts will burn the motor out.
Rob has a great video explaining this. So don't take my word for it. Listen to what Rob has to say.
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Gee, if only I had thought of that.
Given your blindingly obvious obsession with derestricting, perhaps a website that permits its discussion is just not for you, I guess this is why you continually feel compelled to derail otherwise interesting threads.
So no Torque sensors in the motor to detect wheel slip. Just the one to detect rider torque on the pedals.At the risk of playing pigeon chess with you, there’s also cadence and various MEMS sensors to detect angle and yaw moments etc.
Performance Line CX: the most sporty Bosch motor for eMTBs
The best eMountain bike experiences: a powerful drive with unique dynamics and the best possible traction on trails thanks to the 85-Nm Performance Line CX.
You need to be clearer with your language, your Avinox doesn’t ’prevent’ wheel spin either, it detects it first then reduces power.
A Bosch motor does exactly the same, just doesn’t use the rear wheel ring sensor. Design and engineering choices, at the end of the day, and I know it does it because I ride a Bosch (amongst others).
Look. In all honesty. I suggest you do like Steve and ride an Amflow on uneven or slippy terrain. Like him, I noticed a big difference. I rode the Merida E160 SL 6000 on the test day 99bikes had, just before buying the Amflow. It had the Bosch SX motor. Whilst smoother than my Shimano EP801, and I bought the Merida with the EP801. The Avinox Motor was noticeably better in power delivery than the Bosch.
But I agree that the Bosch performed well. But not well enough to try and talk Steve out of the Amflow.
The speed sensor gets mentioned lots because its clearly visible the avinox feels differently to other motors. I dont think anyone has anything revultionary - they're all a combination of fancy cadence,torque and speed sensors into a computer then motor power outputted.
IMO the avinox feels the most intuitive - giving the smoothest power delivery that reacts quickly to your inputs. I don't know if the smoothness is because there is more powerheadroom or the speed sensor frequency, maybe someoen who knows more about the motors can confirm if the cadence/torque have higher sampling as well.
As for back on topic, my mythique has pretty much sat unused since I got an amflow. Could sell it but keeping it as a backup for now.
IMO the avinox feels the most intuitive - giving the smoothest power delivery that reacts quickly to your inputs. I don't know if the smoothness is because there is more powerheadroom or the speed sensor frequency, maybe someoen who knows more about the motors can confirm if the cadence/torque have higher sampling as well.
As for back on topic, my mythique has pretty much sat unused since I got an amflow. Could sell it but keeping it as a backup for now.
The torque sensor is a key part of the slip detection, it detects the sudden lightening of torque input as the wheel slips and the software cuts power to the motor. The same way a rider would do it on an analogue bike actually.
I’ve ridden an Amflow, not as extensively as you have, and I’m sure it works brilliantly, but then so do other motor systems.
My Shimano is probably the worst at it than anything else I’ve ridden, not surprising given how long ago it was designed.
De-restriction talk is of course allowed on the forum, in fact the owner created an area specifically for that.
De-restriction so often goes hand in hand Avinox/Amflow chat as it’s often unclear whether people are sharing their experiences of it restricted or not, given how childishly simple it is to de-restrict.
Wouldn't all pedal torque sensors do the same in all motor brands ? Motor output power/torque is proportional to rider input power/torque in all the big name motor systems. Normally an adjustable percentage parameter and cadence dependant. Bosch set a maximum support level of 400%.
Yes, all the motors I’d recognise as torque sensing EMTB motors would do that, they all multiply rider effort.
What’s changed over the years is the software along with MEMS sensors to detect attitude and other motion (in your Avinox as well) and importantly the processing horsepower to run it all.
I might have to meet Steve at that hill with a Bosch CX bike and see how it fares alongside his mates Amflow!
No......that is not the answer. What is happening is loss of form as you tire. You need to focus on the best gear and mode for the climb and then attack the climb with a higher cadence at the start...much higher than you think necessary.I was out on Sunday with my mate with the Amflow. I borrowed his medium sized bike to get up that short climb. As a reminder, I used to be able to get up it on an mtb, that was before 2014. That section of the forest was closed for several years due to the impact of forestry work. 2019 arrived and my first emtb and the trail had been cleared!! I managed to get up it one time out of 3 or 4 on that emtb. That was 2019 - 21. I got my second and current emtb and my success rate of 1 to 3 or 4 continued. Then there was a gap of about 4 months and I haven't been able to get up it since.
I tried the Amflow in Auto in a few different gears, and then in Turbo. The story was the same; I get almost the top (like within a wheel), the front wheel starts to wander to the left and I lose the strength in my knees and I bale out by grabbing some branches so that I don't tumble backwards down the climb. It's where @Davee did himself a mischief and was off the bike for months. After three goes, I gave up and we carried on riding. Later that day, my mate observed that we had just gone up a steeper and longer climb without fuss, so what was the problem? He reckons that as I have fallen off backwards (several times!) on the problem climb and only managed to save myself by grabbing the bushes on the left at the top of the climb. He thinks it is all in my head. As I get to the top, I subconscioulsy steer towards the safety of the branches. He could be right!
Those branches were not there when I was on my mtb, maybe I should cut them down to remove my imagined safety net!
Interesting discussion on the potential impact of the slotted speed sensor ring. All of our bikes have both speed and torque sensors....possibly on some later motors also sensors to detect inclination as well (auto modes would not work well without them??).
However at the of the day how the bike responds in various scenarios is largely dictated by the software algorithm in each mode.
I mostly ride Bosch cx gen 4. I don't use turbo for technical or very steep climbs ....I use emtb tuned up in Flow. Why?
Climbing anything steep and/or technical requires both as much power as the motor can give but also traction, and that means being able to feel the resistance of the back wheel through the pedals and back off slightly if that goes light.....then have immediate response when more torque is re- applied.
The speed/torque/cadence algorithm in turbo mode does not enable that feel. Emtb mode does.
However at the of the day how the bike responds in various scenarios is largely dictated by the software algorithm in each mode.
I mostly ride Bosch cx gen 4. I don't use turbo for technical or very steep climbs ....I use emtb tuned up in Flow. Why?
Climbing anything steep and/or technical requires both as much power as the motor can give but also traction, and that means being able to feel the resistance of the back wheel through the pedals and back off slightly if that goes light.....then have immediate response when more torque is re- applied.
The speed/torque/cadence algorithm in turbo mode does not enable that feel. Emtb mode does.
Teriatric
Active member
@Chaser @steve_sordy I'm with you both! 2021 merida e160 EP8, hugely modded. New crankshaft bearings recently fitted by Emotor Repairs at 2,000 miles got rid of the noise, but range is well down from new, even with a new battery. Just had my first close-up of an Amflow and it looks nice, and I love the weight difference. Having said that my 26Kg beast is only an issue at fences. BUT just a bit concerned about Amflow's range if utilising all that power for any length of time on my kind of ride. I'd probably end up shoving my 190 Zebs on it too and ruining the whole concept! And yes, I'd hate to flog the Merida and see it fail the new owner, I've treat it very gently but who else would? Proper rock and hard place now, and at 75 not sure what would be best for me, the wife's demeanour and the meagre bank balance. Can't see the V2 being priced like the current one though, they know they're on a winner with MTBers so get ready to sell your kidneys. For this reason I'm also considering moving to Bosch for a nice big battery and more suspension travel than Amflow (currently). Sweet dreams.
Heck...how many of us on here are 75?? Well me too. I don't currently have your financial concerns ( although Reeves from accounts is doing her best to sort that!)........and my wife has stables and horses which costs a lot more than my EMTB sport.
In your situation you need to prioritise value for money and that means looking for tried and trusted bikes at a discount, maybe even second hand......and keep your Merida.
In your situation you need to prioritise value for money and that means looking for tried and trusted bikes at a discount, maybe even second hand......and keep your Merida.
- Thread starter
- #89
Thanks for that, very helpful!
"Agricultural" That's harsh!
It was a bit in hindsight, I was really reflecting on my own 2019 Shimano E8000 which despite being a solid motor that hasn’t missed a beat in 6 years of riding does show its age a bit.
I’m sure yours is a bit better than the E8000!
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