Maybe meanwhile you could sort out why you cannot get up that climb! I have 2 bosch gen 4 motored bikes and I am yet to find something either could not climb.....and that is in emtb (suitably tuned in flow) ,without the recent update, and never in the 52t gear....usually 1 or 2 gears down from there. I rarely use turbo and never for steep techy climbs because it is less controllable. Emtb suitably tuned still gets to the same max power as turbo with some rider effort but stays controllable especially as far as maintaining traction is concerned.
What the hell to do with my perfect condition emtb?
- Thread starter steve_sordy
- Start date
I got the green light for a new EMTB earlier this year. I thought about the Trek Rail gen5 and the Amflow. Then I looked at my Rail 9.7 and Fuel 8 EXE and all the money I’ve invested into upgrading.
The only thing originally remaining on the Rail is the frame, battery and motor. The Fuel EXE is not far behind. When asked of the cost or value of my bike(s) I quickly change the subject. I’m to embarrassed to say and they would surely think I’m absolutely crazy.
The only thing originally remaining on the Rail is the frame, battery and motor. The Fuel EXE is not far behind. When asked of the cost or value of my bike(s) I quickly change the subject. I’m to embarrassed to say and they would surely think I’m absolutely crazy.
I don’t think that an Amflow at £6k or 9k is exactly inexpensive as it is…
The more bikes that come to market with the Avinox motor, now that the boutique brands like Unno etc have launched, then the more competition there should be and prices should fall.
There’s already the Megamo Reason AL at £5k and I think there will be lower price points even before discounts kick in.
If not, then buy a Bosch bike, a very competitive and proven motor system.
Well, another convert to the Amflow.
Riding today with a mate who is technically a very good rider but was on an analogue. He's been looking to get a Merida E160 in about 12 months time. Ridden some EMTBs, including the Merida and a Trek. Looking to spend about AUD$7K.
I was trying to convince him to do one more lap of this Downhill Black run called Bobcats. He said he'd do it if he could ride the Amflow back up. Always looking to get in one extra run I agreed.
After climbing out with the Amflow, and after I eventually caught up to him on his analogue, he scolded me saying I just put his EMTB plans back 2 years. He said he now must have the Amflow ......
I told him he could get the base model for about AUD$9.4K. Not amused, he said the wife had only just agreed to the $7K for the EMTB.
The debrief at the coffee shop was the same as what I told Steve. If you want a new bike, just get it. We are at an age where every day is a bonus.
One of the mates who met us at coffee, has just recovered from a brain cancer, that should have killed him. But his hand-eye coordination is just not what it used to be, and he went from one of our best riders to just managing to ride with us. You never know what tomorrow will bring. So just live your best life today.
Riding today with a mate who is technically a very good rider but was on an analogue. He's been looking to get a Merida E160 in about 12 months time. Ridden some EMTBs, including the Merida and a Trek. Looking to spend about AUD$7K.
I was trying to convince him to do one more lap of this Downhill Black run called Bobcats. He said he'd do it if he could ride the Amflow back up. Always looking to get in one extra run I agreed.
After climbing out with the Amflow, and after I eventually caught up to him on his analogue, he scolded me saying I just put his EMTB plans back 2 years. He said he now must have the Amflow ......
I told him he could get the base model for about AUD$9.4K. Not amused, he said the wife had only just agreed to the $7K for the EMTB.
The debrief at the coffee shop was the same as what I told Steve. If you want a new bike, just get it. We are at an age where every day is a bonus.
One of the mates who met us at coffee, has just recovered from a brain cancer, that should have killed him. But his hand-eye coordination is just not what it used to be, and he went from one of our best riders to just managing to ride with us. You never know what tomorrow will bring. So just live your best life today.
We have January 2022 alloy Trek Rails with Bosch gen 4 motors (non- smart) and can easily climb anything right up to the point that the bike starts to want to flip.
The base model here in the UK is £6k or over AUD$12k, seems like the Amflow is a different value proposition down there.
Here in the UK, £6k or £9k puts it amongst the higher end of e-bikes and also in with some stiff competition. Mind you, I think the prices being asked at the higher end of e-bikes are crazy, and even with a ‘you only live once’ mentality are considered purchases.
PeeJay1
Member
We are All, Bike Tarts..!!.. always looking at other Bikes…
But ya know what, sometimes it just worth sticking with what ya know and Got…
But ya know what, sometimes it just worth sticking with what ya know and Got…
We are All, Bike Tarts..!!.. always looking at other Bikes…
But ya know what, sometimes it just worth sticking with what ya know and Got…
One of the best things I did was to start riding my familiar trails at night with a decent set of lights on, completely different experience and very exhilarating.
Especially when my brain convinced me that the sound of gravel flicking behind me was definitely the sound of the claws of a big cat chasing me down…
I think all the bikes out of Asia are more expensive in the UK. My Merida E160 is out of Taiwan and only cost AUD$4.7K. That's less than £2.7k. Whilst it's low spec. It's still running Rock Shox suspension and the top of the line Shimano Motor on a 150/160 2025 EMTB.
Bike price is invariably highest when the latest model is released. That's the "early adopter" price. Invariably that price gets discounted later for a variety of reasons and usually delivers far better value for money. It is also the case that often the same frame and geo is provided throughout the model range with just component changes that add price and capability. So for example this year I bought Gen 3 Levo comp alloy for £4400. I wanted a dedicated trail bike...I already have 2 excellent enduro bikes......I dont buy anything carbon for mtb. So the bike has years of development and is a known quantity. It works well out of the box with no geo adjustments for trail riding and is easily tuned to preference in the app. I have it tuned similar to my bosch cx bikes and like them virtually never use turbo or the lowest gear. If I wanted to increase its ability I would slacken the head angle with the kit supplied and either upgrade or change the Fox 36 Rhythm fork....and change the tyres for my usual Maxxis winter or summer combos. The rest of the bike is fine as is.
Good advice,never know what's around the corner
Yes yes yes - best answer for me too a few months ago
(other side of wall is a cemetery)
My bike is over four years old, and I have always loved it. But then I rode an Amflow! Only for 50 yards, up a steep hill. And I never braked, changed gear, or shifted the mode, so not a real test in any sense of the word! But I can say that I was instantly smitten! My mate was testing it for the day and he loved it so much that he bought one within a week despite loving his old bike. I now have an itch that needs scratching! But there is absolutely nothing wrong with my current bike. This is hard.
Until now, I had told myself that if the battery or motor failed I would replace them, as I would any other component. This bike is the first mtb I have ever owned where I have changed nothing at all except the contact points (grips, saddle, pedals). However, I firmly expect the bike to be stll going strong in at least a year's time and I would not be surprised if I was still riding it wherever I wanted to in two or three years time. But I want a new bike!
I know that life is too short to not get a new bike when it can be afforded, but my financially challenged upbringing makes it hard for me now to just dispose of something when there is nothing wrong with it.
TBH not sure what I'm going to do with the current bike. I'm considering a new one, despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the one I have. Do I postpone a decision until next year then see how I feel? Should I keep it, sell it for the pittance that passes for market value these days, give it away to someone I like, or dismantle it and sell it for spares? (my current favourite, although it's a hassle).
An alternative option presented itself recently. The above mate, was knocked off his bike by a rider and pillion who then rode off on his bike, never to be seen again. He took a week to heal physically and mentally and then got a new-for-old payout on his five-year old bike! The payout was subject to the usual penny-pinching from his insurance company, but still....!. So he bought an Amflow and he does not miss his old much-loved bike one tiny bit. Hmmmm.(Get behind me Satan!!)
Any suggestions? Serious ones preferred, but I need a good laugh.
High Rock Ruti
Active member
High Rock RutiMy bike is over four years old, and I have always loved it. But then I rode an Amflow! Only for 50 yards, up a steep hill. And I never braked, changed gear, or shifted the mode, so not a real test in any sense of the word! But I can say that I was instantly smitten! My mate was testing it for the day and he loved it so much that he bought one within a week despite loving his old bike. I now have an itch that needs scratching! But there is absolutely nothing wrong with my current bike. This is hard.
Until now, I had told myself that if the battery or motor failed I would replace them, as I would any other component. This bike is the first mtb I have ever owned where I have changed nothing at all except the contact points (grips, saddle, pedals). However, I firmly expect the bike to be stll going strong in at least a year's time and I would not be surprised if I was still riding it wherever I wanted to in two or three years time. But I want a new bike!
I know that life is too short to not get a new bike when it can be afforded, but my financially challenged upbringing makes it hard for me now to just dispose of something when there is nothing wrong with it.
TBH not sure what I'm going to do with the current bike. I'm considering a new one, despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the one I have. Do I postpone a decision until next year then see how I feel? Should I keep it, sell it for the pittance that passes for market value these days, give it away to someone I like, or dismantle it and sell it for spares? (my current favourite, although it's a hassle).
An alternative option presented itself recently. The above mate, was knocked off his bike by a rider and pillion who then rode off on his bike, never to be seen again. He took a week to heal physically and mentally and then got a new-for-old payout on his five-year old bike! The payout was subject to the usual penny-pinching from his insurance company, but still....!. So he bought an Amflow and he does not miss his old much-loved bike one tiny bit. Hmmmm.
Any suggestions? Serious ones preferred, but I need a good laugh.
My bikes break so often that a spare is required. Admittedly I have 5, but mostly ride the 23 Orbea wild with bosch racemotor, however the other bikes get ridden during services.
Also, I know it's expensive, but I've given two bikes away, which feels really good.
Warm Regards Ruti
In a similar situation… Pulled the trigger on a Santa Cruz Vala for my 69th birthday, the old Reign E+2022 still running like a charm. Thinking of giving it to my son… I went with “better do it now before it’s too late” philosophy, though I’ve been refining my search for the last two years.I was homing in on the Santa Cruz Vala, I have sat on one and rode it up and down a showroom, but hadn't got far enough to decide which model, or even arrange a test ride. So it was all daydream stuff.
But think of the fun I'm going to have contemplating, planning, researching, test riding, deciding and finally ...NBD!
Tried the Amflow, didn’t like the geo. Happy shopping, Cheers!Idlefrog
Member
I bought a Levo Gen 4 this summer as a 60th birthday present to myself. I've had a blast on it and don't regret the purchase one but.
When I bought it I didn't know what to do with my 2 year old Cube Stereo Hybrid and just kept it as a spare. I'm really glad I did as most weeks I've had a roady friend come mountain biking me with him using the Cube. We've had some brilliant rides that wouldn't have happened had I sold the Cube.
So I would buy the new bike you want, although you might want to try some others too. The Amflow has an amazing motor, but there are other bikes with that motor now and the motor is only one part of the bike. Going downhill or over 16mph the motor becomes irrelevant, so I would get the bike that has the best handling.
When I bought it I didn't know what to do with my 2 year old Cube Stereo Hybrid and just kept it as a spare. I'm really glad I did as most weeks I've had a roady friend come mountain biking me with him using the Cube. We've had some brilliant rides that wouldn't have happened had I sold the Cube.
So I would buy the new bike you want, although you might want to try some others too. The Amflow has an amazing motor, but there are other bikes with that motor now and the motor is only one part of the bike. Going downhill or over 16mph the motor becomes irrelevant, so I would get the bike that has the best handling.
And this is the thing. Best handling is different to everyone.
My LBS has stores all over Sydney and had Test day at The National Park. I tested the Merida E180, and that thing was a freight train going downhill. Just soaked up everything. But take it on one of the flatter man-made runs with little practice gap jumps all the way down, and I had to work so hard to get it play.
I compared that to the Merida E160 SL 6000. And it was chalk and cheese. At just over 20kg. That thing was just so playful. So much more fun on the man-made stuff. But take it out on a steep rutted out natural trail, and I was gagging to be back on the E180. But for me. The E160 SL made my day more fun. And is why I went with an Amflow. The Amflow felt very similar, but just out climbs any other SL bike.
And so, also for me. I much preferred the better climbing bike. Because on an SL, you can still pick your way down pretty much any downhill. You just go slower. But when you cannot clear a technical uphill. You have to push your bike up. And clearing a climb with no foot dab, whilst your mates struggle to push their bikes up. Well .... that's victory ......
- Thread starter
- #49
I was out on Sunday with my mate with the Amflow. I borrowed his medium sized bike to get up that short climb. As a reminder, I used to be able to get up it on an mtb, that was before 2014. That section of the forest was closed for several years due to the impact of forestry work. 2019 arrived and my first emtb and the trail had been cleared!! I managed to get up it one time out of 3 or 4 on that emtb. That was 2019 - 21. I got my second and current emtb and my success rate of 1 to 3 or 4 continued. Then there was a gap of about 4 months and I haven't been able to get up it since.
I tried the Amflow in Auto in a few different gears, and then in Turbo. The story was the same; I get almost the top (like within a wheel), the front wheel starts to wander to the left and I lose the strength in my knees and I bale out by grabbing some branches so that I don't tumble backwards down the climb. It's where @Davee did himself a mischief and was off the bike for months. After three goes, I gave up and we carried on riding. Later that day, my mate observed that we had just gone up a steeper and longer climb without fuss, so what was the problem? He reckons that as I have fallen off backwards (several times!) on the problem climb and only managed to save myself by grabbing the bushes on the left at the top of the climb. He thinks it is all in my head. As I get to the top, I subconsciously steer towards the safety of the branches. He could be right!
Those branches were not there when I was on my mtb, maybe I should cut them down to remove my imagined safety net!
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Get the amflow,keep your current bike as a back upMy bike is over four years old, and I have always loved it. But then I rode an Amflow! Only for 50 yards, up a steep hill. And I never braked, changed gear, or shifted the mode, so not a real test in any sense of the word! But I can say that I was instantly smitten! My mate was testing it for the day and he loved it so much that he bought one within a week despite loving his old bike. I now have an itch that needs scratching! But there is absolutely nothing wrong with my current bike. This is hard.
Until now, I had told myself that if the battery or motor failed I would replace them, as I would any other component. This bike is the first mtb I have ever owned where I have changed nothing at all except the contact points (grips, saddle, pedals). However, I firmly expect the bike to be stll going strong in at least a year's time and I would not be surprised if I was still riding it wherever I wanted to in two or three years time. But I want a new bike!
I know that life is too short to not get a new bike when it can be afforded, but my financially challenged upbringing makes it hard for me now to just dispose of something when there is nothing wrong with it.
TBH not sure what I'm going to do with the current bike. I'm considering a new one, despite there being absolutely nothing wrong with the one I have. Do I postpone a decision until next year then see how I feel? Should I keep it, sell it for the pittance that passes for market value these days, give it away to someone I like, or dismantle it and sell it for spares? (my current favourite, although it's a hassle).
An alternative option presented itself recently. The above mate, was knocked off his bike by a rider and pillion who then rode off on his bike, never to be seen again. He took a week to heal physically and mentally and then got a new-for-old payout on his five-year old bike! The payout was subject to the usual penny-pinching from his insurance company, but still....!. So he bought an Amflow and he does not miss his old much-loved bike one tiny bit. Hmmmm.
Any suggestions? Serious ones preferred, but I need a good laugh.
Chaser
Member
Had 2 hrs on an Amflow today. I've ridden the Bosch Gen 2, 4 and 5, have a Shimano ep8. The Avinox is by some margin the best e bike motor to date and none of it is about power. It's an easy headline to make but theres few places that you would use the max power. It's in the power delivery where the Avinox excels as it is so progressive in its delivery and so quick to adjust. The Amflow for me, compliments it. I really enjoyed it and I felt much more comfortable in the air in those 2hrs than I have ever felt on my eSommet. I enjoy being behind the bars so would probably put higher bars on the Amflow to lift the front up a bit for me. Other than that, I was hugely impressed by it's ability even in pretty awful conditions and with tyres that weren't suitable for them. I tested the large but could probably go down to a medium
- Thread starter
- #52
One of the key differences between the Amflow and all the other emtbs I have seen (so probably not every emtb, don't writre in please), is that the Amflow has multiple position sensors for the rear wheel, the others have one. Here is a pic of the Amflow version of a single magnet/sensor set up:
That perforated disc inboard of the brake disc must have about 50 slots. That gives 50 times the sensing accuracy. When I was on my emtb today that had the usual single magnetic sensor, my mate who was following behind noticed that when I set off from a standing start up a steep climb, the rear wheel moved steadily until the magnet passed the sensor, then the wheel spun until the sensor came around again.
Recently, I had a very short test ride on an Amflow, 50 yards up a very steep friable stone outcrop. The feature I most remember was the smooth (and relentless) power delivery. That was may have been that sensor in action, although I didn't know about it at the time.
Note: Whether it is a single magnet moving past a sensor, or mutiple steel arms moving past a magnet doesn't matter what matters is the number of pulses per second. The Amflow has 50 times as many, therefore it is adjusting the power flow more smoothly.
This keeps being repeated as a key benefit of the Avinox, but other motor systems do similar, they just don’t use a rear slotted disc to do it.
Try a Bosch system and you’ll see similar ‘witchcraft’ with it using MEMS and torque sensors amongst others to achieve similar results.
I’m afraid that Shimano motors are somewhat ‘agricultural’ compared to the leading systems today, but that doesn’t mean all of them are.
And so, also for me. I much preferred the better climbing bike. Because on an SL, you can still pick your way down pretty much any downhill. You just go slower. But when you cannot clear a technical uphill. You have to push your bike up. And clearing a climb with no foot dab, whilst your mates struggle to push their bikes up. Well .... that's victory ......
Whereas everyone I ride with places the priority on trail & DH performance. Because with most full power bikes & decent geometry, you are splitting hairs on climbing ability. The only reason the Amflow climbs well is its motor. It’s distinctly average in terms of geometry & not doing anything special. As someone who has ridden the Avinox & Bosch Gen5 system extensively, they are very comparable of what you can get up.
If my priority was riding up things fast, I’d take my 450 out. This whole thing of ‘claiming’ uphill KOM’s just because you have the most powerful motor system is pretty tragic.
That said, life is too short, buy a bike if you want a bike, just buy something better than an Amflow
Bontee
Active member
I can relate to this Steve,for me it was the other way round ,I’m 65 and whilst I can still get up most things on a real bike ( I can’t bring myself to call them analogue) my ep8 powered full fat ebike takes me up everything I need to,it was some of the super technical downhills that I began wimping out of.
There are a couple I have ridden very regularly over the last 35 years,which are ridiculously steep with sharp jagged things and no obvious line down a 1 in 3 slope.
So the power aspect isn’t an issue but the quality of the suspension and the bike weight is.
With 180 up front and 170 rear on a 55 lb bike I can still do them ,but of course power isn’t needed going down.I can see why you would need an amflow though…and why not,gotta keep going for another 10 years,and after that I’m sure we’ll all be using magnetic levitation.
All the best
E-MAD MALC
Well-known member
I would wait until next year
You have the buzz for new bike through riding your buddies bike
I was the same but I will wait and see what Amflo has up it sleeve in relation to updates or new models
After all it not life threatening not to get it
Unless you have got disposable income
You have the buzz for new bike through riding your buddies bike
I was the same but I will wait and see what Amflo has up it sleeve in relation to updates or new models
After all it not life threatening not to get it
Unless you have got disposable income
Give me a break. What's the difference if claiming KOM because you have better suspension, or better tyres, or better brakes ? If you buy better equipment, you still need to be able to use it.
Getting the most out of the Avinox Motor on a super technical climb in Turbo Mode requires practice and training. Most people will climb quicker on the Avinox Motor, using the lower power modes. Only a skilled and practiced operator will be able to extract the maximum.
This is what people from MTB backgrounds don't get. EMTB pedal assisted Technical Climbing is a new sport. It requires a different skill set to get the most out of the motor system and bike. I crashed so many times trying to technical climb using the Avinox at full power, before realising you have to learn it on the lower modes first. Then slowly build up. One really important tip is to use your brakes to help control the motor power. Learning that balance between pedal pressure and lever pressure takes time to learn.
So yes. I'm going to claim KOM, when I beat you up a technical climb. And I'm happy for you to jump on any Avinox powered, or any powered EMTB, and try and beat me up. But you won't ......
Never heard of a 450 pedal assist EMTB. Must be new .....
Civilisation has always been governed by regulation. Creating the fastest technology, whilst still complying to the regulations, is the difference between good tech, and great tech.
EMTB is now a tech driven entity. I am 100% behind those driving to create better tech, whilst still meeting the Formula required to partisipate.
You can ride a region compliant Avinox powered EMTB in Australia, anywhere you can ride a bicycle. As long as Avinox don't stray outside those boundaries, but still produce the best climbing motors. I will prefence them.
The "E" in EMTB is to make them go uphill faster. That's the whole point. When on flat or downhill. I set mine to Eco-Mode. Producing far less power and torque than even the lightest powered EMTBs.
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That’s a bit condescending, in my opinion. ‘Technical climbing’ isn’t a new sport just because you’re doing it with a motor, any more than using an elevator to get up a tall building is ‘Technical Free Climbing’…
The most tragic thing is claiming any ‘KOM’ at all.
Which you openly admit you have set to a region not in Australia…
What's that got to do with the price of fish ? My Merida, Marin and Lekker are all set to USA Class 3. Same as you guys in the US. I can and do set the speed limits according to where I'm riding.
When I'm riding on the road, I do set them above the Australian region, as riding at 15mph on roads where the traffic is travelling at 40mph is dangerous, IMO. But I live about 4 miles from the centre of the city, where ebike enforcement is quite strict. So I have to set them correctly when riding through.
If you wish to discuss it further, we'll need to do so in the "Derestricting" area, as it's not allowed out here.
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