Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

[sethimus]

A wireless dropper seems to be the way to go on VPP or any other frame style with a shock tunnel that reduces dropper insertion. (No cable lever binding at the bottom of the dropper, which reduces insertion depth.)

dont forget the total length...

 

[Plummet]

The difference we’re talking about between the Bosch and DJI is like a half full water bottle vs a 3/4 full water bottle in the bottle cage.
Or run a 5mm shorter stem to make the DJI feel like the Bosch

Not when you are talking smallest battery available by dji and smallest by bosch. Then we are talking 1kg of difference.

Anyway, We will go around and around in circles. For some weight distribution is important for others not. It's particularly noticable when swapping back and forward between e and non e.

I ended up riding my mtbs more and more and my pole less and less because of that very reason. The reduction in playfullness of the forward weight distro sucked for me.

Now I have a playful E with good weight distro and its fantastic.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

For anyone claiming front weight is not important then why the first takeaway of the new Fox Podium is 300 grams over the current 38's? Or the coil ohlins Rob is using? or the Push coil upgrade for regular 38. It's only a couple of grams but if you like to ride your bike and not just hold to it like a motocros, the added front weight is definitely noticeable. Easy test, swap a 300 grams weight under you step and try to ride.

 

[Fangs2k]

Absolutely this in spades ^^^^

Fat downtubes and bulky bottom brackets make EMTBs look like Motorbikes instead of Mountain Bikes. When you come across other riders and walkers on the trail. You want to look like you are riding a Bicycle. Not a Motorbike.

If you want to look like you’re riding a bicycle, then ride a bicycle.

Any e-bike is immediately obvious by how quickly it’s moving (especially up hills) and of course the noise when it’s closer to you.

We aren’t fooling anybody, but then again I ride for me and don’t worry about what people think.

I do still ride my non e-bikes a lot, especially in the summer months, it is actually really joyful to ride something so light, playful and responsive.

I ride e-bikes mainly to take the misery out of the hills from my house to my trailheads (I live in a deep hollow) and if I could ditch the motor and battery in the hedge after that then I would!

Even a decent lightweight e-bike is carrying 5kg over my favourite full suspension analogue, that’s a lot, so in that sense any EMTB is already a ‘motorbike’.

What is it with folks wanting to look like they’re on a normal bike, own it guys!

 

[Astro66]

What is it with folks wanting to look like they’re on a normal bike, own it guys!

It's about minimising your presence. It's about looking light. That is important to me. But I want to have the fun of an EMTB.

EMTBs are so much more fun than a MTB, because with motors like the DJI. An uphill trail can feel like a downhill trail.

 

[Fangs2k]

It's about minimising your presence. It's about looking light. That is important to me. But I want to have the fun of an EMTB.

EMTBs are so much more fun than a MTB, because with motors like the DJI. An uphill trail can feel like a downhill trail.

It’s not ‘more fun’ it’s ’different fun’, surely?

I just find it funny that you want to ‘look light’ but even Stevie Wonder on a galloping horse would know that you’re on an e-bike, especially when you’re ’minimising your presence’ by going uphill on trails as fast as you’re going down them, apparently.

For me, and this is just opinions don’t forget, the fun part is the EMTB taking the misery out of the winch to my trailheads, after which I’d have more fun on a nice light analogue bike, on the trails I ride.

 

[Astro66]

It’s not ‘more fun’ it’s ’different fun’, surely?

I actually find climbing on an EMTB more fun than downhill. Especially a DJI powered one. Climbing on a MTB just sucks. There's a reason they run shuttles at Bike Parks. People don't want to spend most of their day slogging up a hill.

I just find it funny that you want to ‘look light’

I find it funny that you don't. Lighter in cycling has always been associated with higher quality. More premium parts. Top of the range. Racing quality. The lighter, the more expensive. So yes. If I'm paying top dollar for my EMTB. Like this DJI powered Crestline. I want it to appear to have these qualities.

’minimising your presence’

It's just about perception. It's instinctive to see something heavier, as a greater hazard. Both to people and the environment it's being used in.

So to conclude. For all these reasons, I love the much slimmer DJI batteries and smaller form factor of their motors, compared with other full powered EMTB motors. I'm clearly not alone in preferring these qualities. Cesar Rojo quoted these same reasons when he switched from the Bosch system to the DJI, when designing the Mith. He wanted it to look more like a MTB.

 

[Fangs2k]

I actually find climbing on an EMTB more fun than downhill. Especially a DJI powered one. Climbing on a MTB just sucks. There's a reason they run shuttles at Bike Parks. People don't want to spend most of their day slogging up a hill.

I find it funny that you don't. Lighter in cycling has always been associated with higher quality. More premium parts. Top of the range. Racing quality. The lighter, the more expensive. So yes. If I'm paying top dollar for my EMTB. Like this DJI powered Crestline. I want it to appear to have these qualities.

It's just about perception. It's instinctive to see something heavier, as a greater hazard. Both to people and the environment it's being used in.

So to conclude. For all these reasons, I love the much slimmer DJI batteries and smaller form factor of their motors, compared with other full powered EMTB motors. I'm clearly not alone in preferring these qualities. Cesar Rojo quoted these same reasons when he switched from the Bosch system to the DJI, when designing the Mith. He wanted it to look more like a MTB.

You may think it’s fun pretending to be in NZ doing 20mph+ on uphill trails, personally that’s about as far away from mountain biking as it gets, and bike parks are a different case again.

Trail safety and etiquette is about how you ride around other people, not what you ride or the diameter of the downtube or motor area.

This DJI Crestline looks nice, but then so did the old one.

I can see though that the Amflow thin skin attitude extends to anything with a DJI motor now…

 

[Astro66]

I can see though that the Amflow thin skin attitude extends to anything with a DJI motor now…

We are just discussing bike preferences. Not sure why you need to get personal. Have a nice day.

 

[Fangs2k]

We are just discussing bike preferences. Not sure why you need to get personal. Have a nice day.

I’m just expressing my personal views on an open forum, same as you, you just come across as needlessly defensive of anything DJI/Amflow and seem unable to accept anybody riding differently to how you do.

Sorry you can’t deal with somebody having a different view to you.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

I can't wait until this bike delivers so we can have relevant conversations.

 

[Astro66]

I’m just expressing my personal views on an open forum, same as you, you just come across as needlessly defensive of anything DJI/Amflow and seem unable to accept anybody riding differently to how you do.

Sorry you can’t deal with somebody having a different view to you.

Mate. It's pretty simple. We can all have different personal opinions about bikes, trails, motors, light and heavy builds, and discuss it freely. It's when you start name calling the riders that I'm not interested . But ........ whatever mate.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

The motor I am most excited about is the Maxon Air S motor. Exact same size and weight as the Fazua motor. 90Nm, 620W, 2.0kg. Battery options are 400wh, 600wh, and 250 range extender. It is supposed to be very efficient just like the Fazua so the 600wh will go a long way.

It would be awesome if Crestline would make an SL version of their bikes using said motor or even the new TQ60Nm. I have a 38-39lb SL ebike (with decent 1100g Albert trail tires) that feels so amazing but I can only ride it on solo rides since group rides everyone is on a full power bike.

 

[Fangs2k]

The motor I am most excited about is the Maxon Air S motor. Exact same size and weight as the Fazua motor. 90Nm, 620W, 2.0kg. Battery options are 400wh, 600wh, and 250 range extender. It is supposed to be very efficient just like the Fazua so the 600wh will go a long way.

It would be awesome if Crestline would make an SL version of their bikes using said motor or even the new TQ60Nm. I have a 38-39lb SL ebike (with decent 1100g Albert trail tires) that feels so amazing but I can only ride it on solo rides since group rides everyone is on a full power bike.

Yes, the Maxon looks like an interesting motor, as does the Mahle M40.

Who sells Crestline here in the UK by the way, or is it a direct sales/import route only?

 

[Ou812]

Yes, the Maxon looks like an interesting motor, as does the Mahle M40.

Who sells Crestline here in the UK by the way, or is it a direct sales/import route only?

As far as I’m aware there are no Crestline dealers in the UK. Sprocket Cycles up here in Scotland used to be a Crestline dealer but they no longer sell them. You can import it, Troydon will ship with BikeFlights and you can use the “back door” method to avoid import/VAT duties.

 

[Fangs2k]

As far as I’m aware there are no Crestline dealers in the UK. Sprocket Cycles up here in Scotland used to be a Crestline dealer but they no longer sell them. You can import it, Troydon will ship with BikeFlights and you can use the “back door” method to avoid import/VAT duties.

Yeah, Sprocket was the dealer that turned up for me on a Google, but no stock of anything Crestline.

@Rob Rides EMTB, fancy becoming the UK Crestline importer?!

 

[AlumiPro]

Did anyone request a 600wh battery for the RS181?
What’s the weight difference between the 600 and 800?
Does the DJI 600wh sit lower in the frame or is it stretched to the same height as the 800wh?
…..sorry if this has already been discussed.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The e-bikes are getting so good lately.

Mith hitting next month, Spectre hitting this month, the E-Core, the Velduro and other new brands are hitting left and right and soon we'll have the Bosch motors with the CX-R (honestly should become their standard motor to remain competitive) such as my favorite the Regulator plus many others.

Which one to buy is the question. All have many pluses, but also a few negatives.

The Mith with it's possibly less effective rear suspension design and short dropper insertion, plus a very high price.
The Crestline's only chink in the armor might be dropper insertion, and maybe rear suspension design, but it's adjustability is a HUGE advantage as is the frame only option.
The E-Core has some unusual geo.
The Bosch bikes all seem slightly behind motor wise but ideal geo and suspension designs nearly across the board. Very good overall and also offer chain ring protection, which is critical for some of us.

 

[Astro66]

What’s the weight difference between the 600 and 800?

800 grams

Does the DJI 600wh sit lower in the frame or is it stretched to the same height as the 800wh?

The 600Wh battery is shorter. In the Amflow the bottom screw is the same. The Top screw is lower for the 600Wh, so yes the battery extends less up the downtube.

 

[Suns_PSD]

1.8#s and lower CoG, is enough to matter imo.

 

[sethimus]

Yeah, that's why i am saying that practically it is negligible in the handling imho, because of real life riding parameters. Riding position, rider weight, rider weight distribution, bike weight distribution.


That's for sure. Maybe in 5 years, solid state batteries will make this thing quite less noticeable.

solid state is heavier for now

 

[AlumiPro]

800 grams

The 600Wh battery is shorter. In the Amflow the bottom screw is the same. The Top screw is lower for the 600Wh, so yes the battery extends less up the downtube.

If I don’t burn through the 800wh on my typical rides I’ll look into getting a 600wh battery to try. It would be nice to have two different Wh / weight batteries to swap out.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

The e-bikes are getting so good lately.

Mith hitting next month, Spectre hitting this month, the E-Core, the Velduro and other new brands are hitting left and right and soon we'll have the Bosch motors with the CX-R (honestly should become their standard motor to remain competitive) such as my favorite the Regulator plus many others.

Which one to buy is the question. All have many pluses, but also a few negatives.

The Mith with it's possibly less effective rear suspension design and short dropper insertion, plus a very high price.
The Crestline's only chink in the armor might be dropper insertion, and maybe rear suspension design, but it's adjustability is a HUGE advantage as is the frame only option.
The E-Core has some unusual geo.
The Bosch bikes all seem slightly behind motor wise but ideal geo and suspension designs nearly across the board. Very good overall and also offer chain ring protection, which is critical for some of us.

Some are reporting that their Local Bike Shop is booming with Dji bike sales. Not surprised. What will be more interesting is that DJI has the lead and many are playing catch up.

This was the case with the Levo for many years having the advantage of a big batter, quiet motor and lots of power. So when the others do finally meet the standards of DJI, then we'll wonder what the "next" steps will be for DJI since they have their motor out now, and will refine it with all the rider data they will acquire.

As much as I detest Chinese copy cats, this is simply not the case, as they came up with a fresh concept, design, and software. I'm sure Bosch is more than a bit concerned as reports don't show the Avinox motor blowing up and having major issues such as Levo did with their belts.

Now even more interesting would be a super light Avinox bike for trial riders with a 400 or 500 wh battery that can complete in the super light space at say low 40lb weight class. Yeti really missed the mark with their latest. Funny thing about low power "natural" bikes such as the Yeti just have you tuning down the Avinox motor to that "natural feel" with the option of tuning it up and clearing stuff you could never have imagined.

So my prediction is that a year from now, it's going to look very DJI like in the market, and some of the pregnant designs with the 800wh batter will look as off as the early battery designs of shimano and others where the batter was just bolted to the frame. So interesting.

 

[Fangs2k]

Some are reporting that their Local Bike Shop is booming with Dji bike sales. Not surprised. What will be more interesting is that DJI has the lead and many are playing catch up.

Here in the UK, the only DJI Avinox powered anything available from an actual bike shop is the Amflow, and not sure what numbers they have had in stock or sold but it’s mostly pre-order now.

Anything like this Crestline is mail order only for us, maybe that will change in a years time with all the Eurobike announcements, but it really needs a big mainstream player to get on board.

Maybe £6k to £9k e-bikes are still a bit ‘niche’ for most people outside of forums like this one, no idea what percentage of the bike market they make up but I’m guessing it must be profitable.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Some are reporting that their Local Bike Shop is booming with Dji bike sales. Not surprised. What will be more interesting is that DJI has the lead and many are playing catch up.

This was the case with the Levo for many years having the advantage of a big batter, quiet motor and lots of power. So when the others do finally meet the standards of DJI, then we'll wonder what the "next" steps will be for DJI since they have their motor out now, and will refine it with all the rider data they will acquire.

As much as I detest Chinese copy cats, this is simply not the case, as they came up with a fresh concept, design, and software. I'm sure Bosch is more than a bit concerned as reports don't show the Avinox motor blowing up and having major issues such as Levo did with their belts.

Now even more interesting would be a super light Avinox bike for trial riders with a 400 or 500 wh battery that can complete in the super light space at say low 40lb weight class. Yeti really missed the mark with their latest. Funny thing about low power "natural" bikes such as the Yeti just have you tuning down the Avinox motor to that "natural feel" with the option of tuning it up and clearing stuff you could never have imagined.

So my prediction is that a year from now, it's going to look very DJI like in the market, and some of the pregnant designs with the 800wh batter will look as off as the early battery designs of shimano and others where the batter was just bolted to the frame. So interesting.

I see Avinox releasing updated versions of their motor, lighter, more powerful, etc. that can be purchased aftermarket and dropped in as a replacement/upgrade to current motors. This was their first attempt, they'll learn and improve very quickly. The battery game improvement is going to be at smaller increments because the tech isn't there yet.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I see Avinox releasing updated versions of their motor, lighter, more powerful, etc. that can be purchased aftermarket and dropped in as a replacement/upgrade to current motors. This was their first attempt, they'll learn and improve very quickly. The battery game improvement is going to be at smaller increments because the tech isn't there yet.

Agree - The current DJI motor has already had quite a few firmware updates. It's now got more power (1000w from 850), smoothshift/ auto coast shifting with SRAM Transmission, reduced torque when shifting to protect chain, more customisable modes, quicker startup, more overrun options, custom battery charging levels (can set it to stop charging at 80%, for example) - thats in addition to all the original stuff, like GPS tracking, fast charging, etc.

I have just got a Ecoflow 1000Wh portable charger, and take it to the trails in the boot of the car, and can now charge mid ride. I get approximately 1% charge every minute, so over a lunch break I can get 30-45% charge (or more in an hour lunch break!)

I'd like to see less rattle noise, and an even more powerful startup on the initial pedal stroke, but all in, its pretty amazing.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

Agree - The current DJI motor has already had quite a few firmware updates. It's now got more power (1000w from 850), smoothshift/ auto coast shifting with SRAM Transmission, reduced torque when shifting to protect chain, more customisable modes, quicker startup, more overrun options, custom battery charging levels (can set it to stop charging at 80%, for example) - thats in addition to all the original stuff, like GPS tracking, fast charging, etc.

I have just got a Ecoflow 1000Wh portable charger, and take it to the trails in the boot of the car, and can now charge mid ride. I get approximately 1% charge every minute, so over a lunch break I can get 30-45% charge (or more in an hour lunch break!)

I'd like to see less rattle noise, and an even more powerful startup on the initial pedal stroke, but all in, its pretty amazing.

Ok Rob, can you comment a bit more on the Crestline? My one question is; 1. Is that seat post insertion length something we can live with, and 2. Any new thoughts on the off the top sensitivity of the rear VPP suspension? The rest you can share in that forthcoming video. lol! Thanks for your input Rob. When ya coming back to Demo Forest to say hi.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Ok Rob, can you comment a bit more on the Crestline? My one question is; 1. Is that seat post insertion length something we can live with, and 2. Any new thoughts on the off the top sensitivity of the rear VPP suspension? The rest you can share in that forthcoming video. lol! Thanks for your input Rob. When ya coming back to Demo Forest to say hi.

I can live with the seatpost insertion no problem. On the Large, I can run a 210mm dropper at the proper height for me.

Off the top is nice and supple with the coil, but loads of support in mid stroke. No wallowing feeling, I prefer it to the feeling of the Bosch bike.

The bike measures bigger than the geo chart. I couldn't understand why it felt so good to ride, in what on paper is smaller than what I am used to, so I measured a few bits. The wheelbase is 1310mm which is a lot longer than the geo chart with my +5mm reach adjust, in size large. And I reckon the reach is a longer than stated.

With the 460mm chainstay, my front centre to rear centre ratio is 1.85, which is one of the most balanced bikes I've ever ridden, meaning I dont need to load the front as much in flatter corners, and the bike just feels more natural to turn. I can load the bike more through my feet, instead of having to push my bodyweight forward to load the front tyre to get front end grip, like I have to do with most bikes that have sub 450mm chainstays. All in, its more natural weight distribution means I have more confidence on the corners.

Additionally, I am using a high stack, with a 50mm stem with a 10mm rise on the stem, and a 60mm riser bar, with a single 10mm spacer under the stem. I thought that with the longer chainstay I would find it harder to lift up the front wheel / manual over stuff, but its the opposite - because of the leverage / bar position, I can lift the front up way easier.

The geo is balanced, tall out the front, and I feel nice and centred on the bike.

I've only ridden it on my local flat trails and in the Surrey Hills, and need to take it to some techy steep DH stuff (Triscombe) to try it there to test the suspension a bit harder, which I am really looking forward to.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I got this EcoFlow Delta 2 portable power station. It charges the 800wh bike battery at a rate of about 1% per minute, and it’s going on the boot of the car. Easy 40-50% lunch time battery recharge using the fast charger.

 

[Fangs2k]

I have just got a Ecoflow 1000Wh portable charger, and take it to the trails in the boot of the car, and can now charge mid ride. I get approximately 1% charge every minute, so over a lunch break I can get 30-45% charge (or more in an hour lunch break!)

Why did you not get the DJI Power 1000?!

I wonder if on portable power station forums there are people posting about how DJI is the end of Ecoflow (aka the Bosch of the portable power world), I know a few YouTubers have gone down that route.

DJI appear on a mission to get into as many markets as possible don’t they, certainly will be keeping the established manufacturers in their toes, which I think is a good thing by the way.