Custom eMTB Lite mode

[Jschlueter]

Aah, I'm trying to figure out if a NON Trek dealer, albeit full BOSCH service centre can do the update, thanks anyway

Any Bosch certified dealer can download the Trek file if you have a Trek bike. Other brand bikes won't see the update as an option in the Bosch software. Saving the file to hard drive and uploading to non Trek bikes doesn't work. I tried.

 

[Pan]

Sunday i took wifey on her power fly for a 30 mile ride mostly hard surfaces back lanes and fire roads ,but plenty of hills .
I did the entire trip in eco returning with 50% battery , she used tour mode mostly with a bit of higher modes on the last few steep hills and returned with about 40% left . So the tour emtb is certainly efficient

Perhaps you should also consider the weight difference of the riders. I presume your wife is liter this will make a substantial difference in battery consumption (at relative same input from riders). My wife is 33 % liter than me. If linear she should get 33% more ´milage’ than me (or you) or have 33% more residual battery (for same support). If you carry over she would have (33% more than your 50%=66%) if done on eco and she fishes at 40 using emtb lite. That is 26% battery use difference and is substantial. Probably quite close in relation with the difference in support between the 2 modes. End result is lite mode not more efficient.

 

[Iggy_BBR]

It may be worth looking at this tool.

eBike range calculator for Bosch drive systems – Bosch eBike

 

[Kernow]

It may be worth looking at this tool.

eBike range calculator for Bosch drive systems – Bosch eBike

If your on road perhaps , there’s no where near enough perameters taken into account there to even get a rough idea off road

 

[Kernow]

Perhaps you should also consider the weight difference of the riders. I presume your wife is liter this will make a substantial difference in battery consumption (at relative same input from riders). My wife is 33 % liter than me. If linear she should get 33% more ´milage’ than me (or you) or have 33% more residual battery (for same support). If you carry over she would have (33% more than your 50%=66%) if done on eco and she fishes at 40 using emtb lite. That is 26% battery use difference and is substantial. Probably quite close in relation with the difference in support between the 2 modes. End result is lite mode not more efficient.

Wife is about same wieght as me , otherwise I would have considered that , the main difference is her bike is a hardtail with much slimmer tyres etc so should be more efficient especially on road , I didn’t say emtb lite was more efficient did I ?

 

[Iggy_BBR]

If your on road perhaps , there’s no where near enough perameters taken into account there to even get a rough idea off road

Of course not, but it does help IMO. But in your case, you riding in ECO and returning with 50% battery, and your wife riding in TOUR & returning with 40% battery, sounds about right to me. Thats because new update EMTB Lite (Tour) powers varies from 120% to 240% output, while ECO just gives 60% output. Technically she's using more power, though you're moving at the same speed. Those numbers can vary even more depending on how efficient the bike is being ridden. There needs to be a balance between pedaling, gear ratio and power mode. From my experience, I estimate 10% power lost while off-roading, especially if there's a lot of hill climbs that day. It might be worth experimenting on your next ride together, is to ride in the same power mode and see what the results.

 

[Kernow]

Of course not, but it does help IMO. But in your case, you riding in ECO and returning with 50% battery, and your wife riding in TOUR & returning with 40% battery, sounds about right to me. Thats because new update EMTB Lite (Tour) powers varies from 120% to 240% output, while ECO just gives 60% output. Technically she's using more power, though you're moving at the same speed. Those numbers can vary even more depending on how efficient the bike is being ridden. There needs to be a balance between pedaling, gear ratio and power mode. From my experience, I estimate 10% power lost while off-roading, especially if there's a lot of hill climbs that day. It might be worth experimenting on your next ride together, is to ride in the same power mode and see what the results.

Both our tour modes are the latest tour emtb , that was the point of the original thread and the reason i posted . my usual off-road probably decreases battery life by at least half , but there’s lots of climbing and very slow rolling soft ground that sucks the power

 

[Karve]

Moustache Magic Tour -

I wonder if this is emtb lite relabelled - a few people reported it not being any more powerfull under light pedalling than eco which this chart would show.

New Bosch MAGIC TOUR mode – a progressive mode with increased range and improved responsiveness, for Moustache only?

Moustache are updating their Bosch e-bikes with the progressive MAGIC TOUR mode. Can this latest software increase the range of your battery?

ebike-mtb.com

MAGIC TOUR mode replaces the old TOUR mode on all of Moustache’s Bosch Performance Line CX equipped e-bikes. The new mode will continue to be indicated as TOUR mode,

Super weird that Trek didnt do a press release on EMTB Lite

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Super weird that Trek didnt do a press release on EMTB Lite

I know its good that they are doing it, but its really a basic tiny update that barely is worth any airtime. Its simply a custom mode, like you can get on all the other motors with their customisation apps. Bosch are really lagging behind without an app and have to do these custom branded partnerships to have something to compete with.

/just off to create a 'party' mode on my Levo mission control app, I'll get a press release sorted ?

 

[Karve]

Its simply a custom mode, like you can get on all the other motors with their customisation apps.

I deffo agree with you that Bosch are lacking app based control.... Id love to be able to tweak away on mine... but isnt the emtb and thus emtb lite modes unique, in that they have automatically adjusted power & torque assist? Is anyone else doing that? As such probably worth a bit of a shout out. I have zero knowledge of other systems so more a question than statement.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

but isnt the emtb and thus emtb lite modes unique, in that they have automatically adjusted power & torque assist? I

Its just a torque / power curve based on rider input. Technically I don't see a reason why you couldn't achieve the same with another motor using their app.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Bosch motor on my Rail. But its frustrating we are having to use the modes that each brand thinks is the best implementation of the software

 

[Paolobernie]

Its just a torque / power curve based on rider input. Technically I don't see a reason why you couldn't achieve the same with another motor using their app.

Yes, but in this case is not a linear curve where you can chose n% of assistance but it varies according to your power input. I suppose that this adaptability is not achievable with other apps

 

[Hamina]

I have to remind you that technically this capability is already available in Bosch Nyon MY21. It's just that the Purion doesn't have the connectivity and Kiox doesn't have the capability (yet) even though is has the connectivity.

I totally agree that Bosch is lagging and this "take your bike to vendor to get it updated" is total rubbish and would only be acceptable if we lived in 2008.

 

[Pan]

I have to remind you that technically this capability is already available in Bosch Nyon MY21. It's just that the Purion doesn't have the connectivity and Kiox doesn't have the capability (yet) even though is has the connectivity.

I totally agree that Bosch is lagging and this "take your bike to vendor to get it updated" is total rubbish and would only be acceptable if we lived in 2008.

Yepp it appears you can adjust power in nyosh 2021, another marketting strategy to get you to by the equivalent of another phone. I do not want that, so i will not buy it. Spech &belevo much better approach.

 

[MP888]

Hi guys

Anyone have the Emtb Lite mode firmware with a VOLspeed v3 fitted? From what I'm reading the firmware is the same version (1.1.2.0) which I already have on the bike, but just has a few check-box options within it.... so it should be all good? Just checking!

My Trek Rail 9.8 will be in for a service soon (fix naff dropper if possible before being launched towards a bin) and I'm tempted by this lower power dynamic mode, but not if will potentially mess with the VOLspeed.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Hamina]

EMTB Lite mode maximum torque is 85nm.

Source: Bosch

 

[Doomanic]

I would have preferred it to be lower, say 60Nm to help conserve battery.

 

[Kernow]

I would have preferred it to be lower, say 60Nm to help conserve battery.

If 85 is max I wonder how it averages out ?
I’ve no idea what eco is , other than it gives 40% .I often wish eco had just a bit more

 

[Hamina]

I would have preferred it to be lower, say 60Nm to help conserve battery.

I thought that it had to be lower and I'm a bit surprised. The Bosch BMS will be updated at the same time and there's (what I've heard) an update that gives also more range.

I have not yet understood exactly how to read the assistance curve works. I'm guessing that the Moustache "Magic tour" and Trek's EMTB Lite are the same but that's my personal assumption.

 

[Pan]

I would have preferred it to be lower, say 60Nm to help conserve battery.

My lbs told me that he kept the old 75 Nm max limit (instead of upgrading to the 85Nm option) when he updated tour mode to mtb lite because he knew i wanted max distance.

 

[Pan]

EMTB Lite mode maximum torque is 85nm.

Source: Bosch

That is interesting considering the table of the second page of this thread that says;

Maximum possible drive torque (Nm)	TURBO: 85*** eMTB**: 75 TOUR: 50 ECO: 40

do you know if they updated emtb to full 85 Nm also ?

 

[Hamina]

do you know if they updated emtb to full 85 Nm also ?

I updated the 85 Nm firmware in July 2020 and the EMTB Lite December 2020. They seem to be two different options when updating your bike.

Actually I'm not sure if the 85 Nm is anymore today an option or does it come by default.

 

[Pan]

I thought that it had to be lower and I'm a bit surprised. The Bosch BMS will be updated at the same time and there's (what I've heard) an update that gives also more range.

I have not yet understood exactly how to read the assistance curve works. I'm guessing that the Moustache "Magic tour" and Trek's EMTB Lite are the same but that's my personal assumption.

I looked at he article referenced and it clearly states that magic and lite modes are different. From what i understand, if we look at the curves on the graph referenced above, lite would be somewhat similar to magic but tops off at the max level that sport mode offered. Because of the diff in top assistance I am surprised the top torque is kept, the ratio would suggest 75 Nm. See below:

»While Moustache developed MAGIC TOUR together with Bosch and it will be called MAGIC TOUR on Moustache’s e-bikes, other brands will also have the opportunity to offer their customers the new progressive support mode. It is also likely to replace the existing TOUR mode on Bosch equipped e-bikes from other brands, though reserved for the Performance Line CX range with the smart eMTB mode.Trek are offering their customers the so-called eMTB Lite mode as a replacement for the TOUR mode. They also developed their “light” eMTB mode in partnership with Bosch, and it too offers progressive assistance. The difference lies in the maximum support, as Trek’s eMTB Lite mode only assists with up to 250 % of your own effort, decreasing with an increasing cadence of over 45 revolutions per minute.

EMTB Lite mode maximum torque is 85nm.

Source: Bosch