Dengfu E10 - The CHEEB V1.0 - Discussion

Rob Rides EMTB said:
fully agree. i think for my use 600w will be enough.
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But found another battery will be a few complicate, I think that dengfu have their battery produce by other company (who ?) and as i have understand during spoking with an dealer, the bafang M need a specific BMS to display correct battery level in %. Say me If you find one
 
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GrandPaBrogan said:
I'm very interested to see if the firmware on your Bafang M500 is user programmable.

The older BBS01 that I have is infinitely programmable if I just download the software. But I couldn't be bothered doing the trial and error myself of finding the ideal advance curve, so I just took it to a bike shop nearby that specialises in Bafang eBike conversions and he just plugged his laptop to my motor and upgraded it - took about a minute and NZ$40 bucks - money well spent saving me the time and hassle. In my case, I had to tone it down because the surge of raw power frightens my wife when she uses the bike on elevated boardwalks around swampy areas (and tight switchbacks).

In case it matters, the older BBS01 motor requires brake levers (either hydraulic or mechanical) that have built-in power cut-off switches... so that the power will cut-off once the brakes are engaged - even if you happen to be pedalling or if you still have your finger on the throttle. The new programming that the bike shop installed for me no longer needs special brake levers. He somehow programmed the cut-off function based on the torque sensor from the BB axle and the wheel RPM. This meant that I no longer need switched brake levers and can now upgrade my brakes to any high-end brand I wish. I brought this up because you mentioned that your motor kit came with a throttle. I was just wondering if the "slow" uptake on power from your motor is an advance curve allowance for the throttle feature? - and if so, an allowance you would not need if you don't intend to install the throttle.
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M series software have nothing common with the BBS, communicating protocol is fully different. nothing comparable.
 
dobbyhasfriends said:
I could burn all that battery where I live, no problem :D
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not sure it is so easy with the dengfu if throttle is removed. Powerfull delivered is function of effort apply on crank and you need to use also your physical to burn battery, you cannot use max power with only turn crank effortlessly, who will empty the first ? Until now on my testing track i could empty the batteries, with dengfu i have not been able.

But it existing an "boost" mode never test, may be with it ?
 
patdam said:
thanks i read it, due to my poor english i have difficult to understand all
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Read it via Google Translate. Works also for this site :) and may clarify the text.

GoogleTranslate.png
 
patdam said:
not sure it is so easy with the dengfu if throttle is removed. Powerfull delivered is function of effort apply on crank and you need to use also your physical to burn battery, you cannot use max power with only turn crank effortlessly, who will empty the first ? Until now on my testing track i could empty the batteries, with dengfu i have not been able.

But it existing an "boost" mode never test, may be with it ?
Click to expand...
trust me.... easy :D
 
GrandPaBrogan said:
I'm very interested to see if the firmware on your Bafang M500 is user programmable.
The older BBS01 that I have is infinitely programmable if I just download the software.
Click to expand...

Do we have any information how Bafang reacts for guarantee cases if motor has been reprogrammed by user?
 
Hamina said:
Do we have any information how Bafang reacts for guarantee cases if motor has been reprogrammed by user?
Click to expand...
Bafang issue the ID's for the software which enable you to make changes. If you get one (an ID), it will be limited in it's abilities of what you can tune - so you wouldn't be able to make changes which could have a detrimental effect.

There might be circumstances where they might grant you a higher level access, but this might also mean that warranty situations aren't as smooth ??

I think the higher level access accounts are normally only given to bafang specialists. Lets hope they give them to celebrities too :-)

Bafang warranty info :

Warranty Policy

Bafang description
bafang-e.com bafang-e.com

Warranty Exclusions:
7 Failure due to an unreasonable user configuration or unauthorized changes in the relevant accessories parameters
 
@GrandPaBrogan
You can't measure "effective" angles with a smart phone alone.
Effective seat angle is a stupid virtual measurement made up by the bike industry. it's definition means that it actually changes with bike size but they somehow manage to still just put one angle in the geometry chart for almost all bikes.
you can measure the actual seat tube angle. but as it's not connected to the BB or wouldn't disect it. it's meaningless without also including an offset measurement. Which no manufacturers do.
Nukeproof/Vitus have come up with a new seatpost offset measurement for their 2021 frames which is also gash but so is reach and stack and that's now here to stay.
ie. most folk don't actually understand how reach is affected by stack so just assume they need Xmm reach frames. When they're not all even close to the same size
 
The Bafang BB series are completely different animals, they are not torque assist, but simply “ cadence“ assist. Ie if you turn the pedal it will ramp up the power to what ever power you have set regardless of peddle input. Incredibly reliable in the later generations ( they had some electronic problems early on ) and if you are a rider with some leg or knee problems, then they are a great go to motor.

What they are not good for is mtb on single track, sure they can be reprogrammed to be a good compromise, yes you can fit brake cut offs ( essential and easily done in my view ) but once you have ridden torque sensing motors, then the world of EBikes has moved on from cadence sensing only. Some of the hacked software motors can be put into cadence only as a get me home or for specific riders and it’s quite interesting to go back and try what you thought was fantastic.

As a rule the Bafang motors have all been ridiculously quiet, the BBS02 is simply a faint whirr, but unfortunately the M600 since fitting the steel main gear is reputed to be noisy. If you want to go down the M600 route and have a quieter motor, Luna in the States now sell a new main gear made of a specific plastic and modified software ( slower ramp up, max torque on any gear is at 0 rpm ) but there was some talk that it is only now available as a Luna only complete motor.

Bafung have designed a motor for a specific requirement, EU compliant only, road and gravel bike orientated, and we get to where we are. Already there’s rumours of code being rewritten for the M500 but to date it hasn’t appeared but to be fair, when I bought my E10 frame in September, I couldn’t source anywhere a M500. Give it time and as per the BB series, new software will become available and at that point my guess it will be a very good alternative.
 
Gary said:
@GrandPaBrogan
You can't measure "effective" angles with a smart phone alone.
Effective seat angle is a stupid virtual measurement made up by the bike industry. it's definition means that it actually changes with bike size but they somehow manage to still just put one angle in the geometry chart for almost all bikes.
you can measure the actual seat tube angle. but as it's not connected to the BB or wouldn't disect it. it's meaningless without also including an offset measurement. Which no manufacturers do.
Nukeproof/Vitus have come up with a new seatpost offset measurement for their 2021 frames which is also gash but so is reach and stack and that's now here to stay.
ie. most folk don't actually understand how reach is affected by stack so just assume they need Xmm reach frames. When they're not all even close to the same size
Click to expand...
Duh, how silly of me. My old-school old-world sensibility forgot that there are hardly any straight uninterrupted seat tubes connected to the BB anymore. None of my bikes even do, haha!

How about stretching a piece of string from the saddle to the BB and measuring that angle against level ground - would that work?
 
Nope. We're not all the same height silly. Plus we all ride with dropper posts now.
 
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GrandPaBrogan said:
I'm very interested to see if the firmware on your Bafang M500 is user programmable.

The older BBS01 that I have is infinitely programmable if I just download the software. But I couldn't be bothered doing the trial and error myself of finding the ideal advance curve, so I just took it to a bike shop nearby that specialises in Bafang eBike conversions and he just plugged his laptop to my motor and upgraded it - took about a minute and NZ$40 bucks - money well spent saving me the time and hassle. In my case, I had to tone it down because the surge of raw power frightens my wife when she uses the bike on elevated boardwalks around swampy areas (and tight switchbacks).

In case it matters, the older BBS01 motor requires brake levers (either hydraulic or mechanical) that have built-in power cut-off switches... so that the power will cut-off once the brakes are engaged - even if you happen to be pedalling or if you still have your finger on the throttle. The new programming that the bike shop installed for me no longer needs special brake levers. He somehow programmed the cut-off function based on the torque sensor from the BB axle and the wheel RPM. This meant that I no longer need switched brake levers and can now upgrade my brakes to any high-end brand I wish. I brought this up because you mentioned that your motor kit came with a throttle. I was just wondering if the "slow" uptake on power from your motor is an advance curve allowance for the throttle feature? - and if so, an allowance you would not need if you don't intend to install the throttle.
Click to expand...

That vid demo-ing the noise of Bafang motors all bikes had throttles . They took off from a standing start without pedaling .

Edit ; I realised the sound test is faulty . They aren`t pedaling the bikes as they pass the microphone ! Not same - same as under pedaling load ?
 
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Frame, motor and battery : Designed, developed and fabricated in China by professionals.

Bike : Assembled in England by some bloke with a hammer, screwdriver and several cans of spray paint.
 
I wonder if the bafang M620 torque monster has the same mounting dimensions as the M5/600 ?, wouldn’t mind building my own beast from the east
 
Its very tempting, especially as I would only need to buy the frame motor and battery, have all the other parts lying around
 
This is very tempting for the price, but here in the USA, you can buy a Canyon Spectral for 5k. Now that's a tempting thing since it comes with warranty... If you have the spare parts, it would be cool to see if you could get one of these down to the 4k range. It will be interesting to see how Rob rates the ride of the bike compared to other budget bikes such as the recent Marin bikes. So much fun. This is cool Rob!
 
Zimmerframe said:
There is an app you can download from the bafang website called "BESST".
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I did see the BESST PC program, but it looks like it's not usable on the trail.
I might be wrong.....

On the Bafang motor website it says that the motor needs 2 magnets, which means 2 pulses pr revolution.
If this is true....then I don't care about the restriction :-)
 
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