Who actually wants more than 85nm and 400%

Who actually wants more than 85nm and 400%

  • I do! Give me all the power I can get! I want MORE!!

    Votes: 57 27.0%

  • Not really, but ill take it if its on offer.

    Votes: 102 48.3%

  • Not me, not interested.

    Votes: 52 24.6%
  • Total voters
    211
Interesting group ride last night.
I started the summer riding near the front, last night I was near the back. The power race has affected the group for sure. The difference between my 85nm-600 to my mate's 120nm-750 is shocking on the trails during "Power Hour".
 
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RustyMTB said:
You can pop down the shops in a Ferrari & get a speeding ban in a Mini . I'll leave you to join the dots.
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That’s very true and most riders
Know the score but Moto cars are held to account by way of tax, insurance and licensing, Currently bicycles are not and it needs to stay that way. I do worry some broad legislation is brought in because of all the anti social, uber eats etc etc type bikes and we get caught up in the net too.
 
Ratcliff1893 said:
That’s very true and most riders
Know the score but Moto cars are held to account by way of tax, insurance and licensing, Currently bicycles are not and it needs to stay that way. I do worry some broad legislation is brought in because of all the anti social, uber eats etc etc type bikes and we get caught up in the net too.
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We already have broad legislation here. 15.5mph & that's your lot. MTB'ers worrying about restrictions are over doing it imo. Firstly, loads of us are already breaking the law via derestriction & never get caught for various reasons that include the cops not being interested in people buzzing about the country side, the same riders being smart enough not to burn around towns pulling wheelies & mowing grannies down & probably the most under priced aspect; enforcement.

In no universe is the UK ever setting up a licence & registration system for cyclists. It's never happening when the country is on its arse & has a thousand better things to do than set up an entire new DVLA style bureaucracy & enforce it. So imo, while laws may come about to deal with the deliveroo & Surron idiots but they won't affect us & even if they did, there's practically no chance of ever being swept up in them.
 
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RustyMTB said:
It's never happening when the country is on its arse & has a thousand better things to do than set up an entire new DVLA style bureaucracy & enforce it.
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Just to say here, the UK wouldn’t need a new DVLA, they’d just use the DVLA like they already do for e-mopeds/motorbikes, it would be easy to pull e-bikes over certain power/speed into that net.

Unfortunately, having better things to do has never stopped suffocating legislation from being introduced before.

I agree that enforcement is entirely different, but bizarrely the ‘cycling lobby’ itself is already against raising power from 250w to 500w as they ‘don’t want bicycles to become electric mopeds’. In their heads it won’t be cycling getting licensed, it’ll be mechanically propelled two wheeled motorbikes.

Anyway, I voted along with the herd, not really, but I’ll take it whilst it’s on offer, more in the ‘whilst we still can’ spirit!
 
Fangs2k said:
Just to say here, the UK wouldn’t need a new DVLA, they’d just use the DVLA like they already do for e-mopeds/motorbikes, it would be easy to pull e-bikes over certain power/speed into that net.
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That's where we diverge. I don't think DVLA would want it, the revolving door of transport ministers would have it at the bottom of their to do list anyway, giving in to DVLA resistance is thus easily foreseeable & that's before you get to the whole can of worms around number plates & tasking unwilling police forces to deal with the whole thing. Dead duck from my pov, so more power please.
 
RustyMTB said:
That's where we diverge. I don't think DVLA would want it, the revolving door of transport ministers would have it at the bottom of their to do list anyway, giving in to DVLA resistance is thus easily foreseeable & that's before you get to the whole can of worms around number plates & tasking unwilling police forces to deal with the whole thing. Dead duck from my pov, so more power please.
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You could be right, and I’m pretty sure policing would be rolling their eyes at the prospect of trying to enforce things as well.

That said, the CAA here didn’t want to take on the regulation and enforcement of drones and model aircraft flying, but the DfT told them to get on with it anyway.

Same issue with actually policing it though, hence the idea of automatic enforcement via Apps and Geo location etc. Only impacts the law abiding who have more hoops and expense to jump through, and I fear e-bikes someday might go the same way.
 
pagheca said:
I voted for option 2 but, as usual, I understand that people may have very different goals with their eMTB. For me, for example, riding in a group is not really an option: I prefer going alone.
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Off topic but I agree. I prefer to ride alone. Makes me feel better to hear someone else share this sentiment. Everyone I know appears to really like riding with others.
 
Powerslider said:
Off topic but I agree. I prefer to ride alone. Makes me feel better to hear someone else share this sentiment. Everyone I know appears to really like riding with others.
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My problem actually is that others are usually faster, and more interested in the performance than in the experience. They do not really care about choosing a shorter but more boring trail, stopping for a picture, a breath or a look at the surrounding. I like long, technical trails (not too much technical...), actually I look for them, but I do not like to just go there and back. I prefer to enjoy the moment and the adventure.

While I was living in the Canary Islands I found a colleague of mine sharing the same approach, but unfortunately not in the area of Italy where I currently live. Neither in any other country I lived and worked.
 
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I have an Avinox bike and have capped Auto at somewhere near those figures and it suffices 95% of the time. It is, however, a right giggle to pop it in turbo and blast up hills at a rate of knots.
 
I don't need more. Maybe when I give up regular MTBs, I MAY change my mind but doubtful. Even if I use default power setting for a month with eMTB exclusively, my leg strength drops and I am so much slower on the regular MTB. That is just embarrassing since I ride with regular MTB guys. I'm actually good with even 50 NM max since I usually set it to 35-40.
 
Fugu said:
I think marketing is the biggest reason. Avinox marketers should be paid very well because they've done an amazing job of it. The average measurbator punter "must have big number" and so that's going to sell bikes. That's why brands have jumped on it.
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The industry got a disruptor. Bigger numbers and smaller form factor was exactly what we wanted and the brands took advantage, that sold itself.

I do not believe DJI had any marketing plan apart from release the safe geo PL with the above and watch the industry reply. The marketing came from reviewers, not from Avinox themselves.

Cant remember if it was Forbidden or Unno who had designed their 2025 bike with Bosch, then dropped all prototypes and redesigned the whole bike around the Avinox system.
 
"Who actually wants more than 85nm and 400%"

I mean I like 100nm and 750w, I can't notice the difference on the new update with 120nm tbh but then my average watts I put into the motor is 170-180 even a chilled ride so in my specific use case it doesn't really matter.

What I'd like to see is less chasing power figures and instead chasing higher capacity batteries or more efficiency.

I did a ride on Wednesday night up my local in emtb+ 1hr 38m moving time, 25km, 1003m elevation gain, 15 trails. Got home with 20% battery remaining on a 800wh battery which is fine, but I could have happily done that ride twice over and I pulled into my garage thinking "what if I buy another battery?"
 
I’ve got a SC 5010 that’s 28lbs. It’s my forever bike. It’s the best ride ever.

I’ve got a SC Vala that’s 50lbs. It’s my first and only ebike. I ride my ebike in eco mode mostly. I like to feel the trail. Mostly windy singletrack.

TBH. After owning both, I think I wish I could have a 36lb 5010 with 35-50nm and a 300wh battery. Something where it still feels playful, but you get a little juice when needed.

I’m not going to lie tho, the first time I put it in Turbo and bombed an uphill was an insanely fun experience. I was grinning ear to ear for a day.
 
I find it wild people posting i miss 85nm or whatever, just turn your motor down? i run my avinox 60nm 450wh, reason i like this motor is the customisable..ness? boost turbo is just a novelty thing to blast back to van.
 
I find 85 or 90nm with 400% assist the sweet spot for the optimum balance of power and control on all my rides. It suggests to me that both Specialized with the 3rd gen Levo and all the brands using the bosch cx had it right in the first place. I have both....do I need more power? No. Do I want more power? No. From what I have read more power means bigger batteries/ more weight......longer charge times unless using higher charging rates which we all know is not good for battery life: and a lot of messing around with mode settings, ironically to tune them down!
Meanwhile the simple tuning options that were/ are already there on the gen 3 levo and Bosch cx seem to me to be underused.
On both I typically run Flow/ Spesh app once when I buy the bike, set trail on the Levo or emtb on the cx such that I rarely use any other mode on either bike. The app is not run again either unless there is a good reason. Most of my rides are 25 mile max and I never use more than 55% battery which means I charge to 85% and run no lower than 30%.
 
Although I voted for option 2, I am edging closer towards option 1. I am in the category of rider that NEEDS more torque, not WANTS it.

My deteriorating knees were the reason that I bought my first emtb in Jan'19. I have just bought my third emtb, one with the Bosch update 2.0 that provides 120Nm max torque and 750W max power (vs the 85Nm and 500W I had for five years previously). My knees are now that bad that if I let the dropper go all the way down, I struggle to get back up! I have to use a bump in the trail to bounce me upwards, like a gravity assist in reverse! :LOL: The first thing I did on my new bike was to shorten the dropper travel!

I can walk easily, but not run (more of a stumble) as I just don't trust my knees not to let me down. Squats are a no-no. Walking downstairs after a bike ride is more like a series of controlled falls. If I have an off onto a flat surface, I have to use the bike to lever myself up. It is embarrassing, but I'm not giving up biking, no way! :love:
 
The only thing that really matters is the speed at which assistance cuts out. There will be natural limitations to maximum torque and power (physics and all) and after a certain point the power becomes unmanageable in tech sections and on steeper climbs.

By insisting on the assist cutoff, the benefits of increased power are marginal.
 
The way everyone was panicking when they didn’t get the 120nm Bosch update the second it released tells me more of you want the power than you’re letting on lol.
 
irie said:
Who on this forum was "panicking"?
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Wasn’t meant to be so serious or offensive. An exaggeration of the many many threads that were started about not getting the update and people getting disappointed/mad at Bosch for how they released it. A lot of the same people saying they don’t want more power were very eager to get the update. Just an observation, not meant to be an argument.

If Bosch drops an exact Avinox replica it will be the most popular motor of all time and I truly believe the conversation would change to how do we keep this legal vs how do we stop Avinox from taking our trail access away. Just my own opinion though based off the eagerness of people going from “anything over X power is too much” to “where tf is my power update.” You may believe differently and that’s cool.
 
I want a slim form factor and light battery, and a slim/small motor in a lightweight bike that is reliable with great support. That is what I want. Big power numbers are so pointless, to me.
 
levity said:
We really like the “extra” power that the Avinox M2S motor can provide. You don’t have to use it, but it’s there when you want it. And it’s surprisingly well controlled.

Mrs levity and I both have new Pivot Shuttle AMP’d bikes, and it’s a blast having torque available to clear objects we couldn’t on our SL e-bikes, to pick up speed quickly, or to maintain speed on power sucking climbs.

However, the most useful advantage may be applying it in the Shuttle mode. We’ve used full Turbo assist several times on paved or dirt roads to get to trailheads or to return to camp. It saves time and legs and has allowed us to ride back-to-back-to-back days. The 28mph max speed setting is especially appreciated on paved sections.
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Hi
I’ve got my Levos and Scott 930 bikes chipped for the family , so we can do 28 mph if required. we ride as you much described. Do these avinox bikes come with this power set up as standard? Great fun On these bikes, 👍
 
I use my Rise LT at around 45nm mostly, increasing to around 65nm for proper steep stuff. Can't remember the last time I used the full 85nm.

The only appeal of full fat bikes for me is the bigger batteries, but then the bikes are generally heavier as a result and I dont want to ride a tank.
 
RustyMTB said:
You can pop down the shops in a Ferrari & get a speeding ban in a Mini . I'll leave you to join the dots.
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In my experience it's the race track which shows the driving skills. A good driver in a Mini can still smoke a noob in a Ferrari

Same with riding bikes - when the trail points down it doesnt matter how much power your motor is putting out, if you can't ride it then it shows! 💡

As for the new higher power motors, unless I can swap the battery for a fully charged 2nd one, then i'm not interested.
People literally spending £9k+ on an Enduro/DH capable bike to session their local woods for 2 hours 🥶
 
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Better power to weight ratios would be my request. Give me 85nm with an 800wh battery that comes in around 40 pounds stock and I would never deviate. 50 pound bikes suck on descent.

Oh and let’s make it function and come with a 5 year warranty on parts labor for that power unit. None of this going out of business shit and continual motor problems.
 
Plummet said:
Who actually wants more than the traditional full power 85nm e-bike.

I dont need more. I miss the days when pretty much all full power e's were very similar power. We could go on group e rides and every one had a similar amount of grunt and when it came to a challenge like riding up a tech section then whoever cleaned that section was the better rider on the day. Now full power e's are wildy different and nz with different top speeds too. Now its not who cleaned that section best due to skill but who turned up on the most powerful bike...


Ahhh the good old days.
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Experience & talent definitely are what gets you down the trail safely, yet, if you are just too inexperienced, out of shape or have a physical limitation, you can choose the power plant to suit your abilities or, gawd forbid, your needs.
 
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