Who actually wants more than 85nm and 400%

[Plummet]

Who actually wants more than the traditional full power 85nm e-bike.

I dont need more. I miss the days when pretty much all full power e's were very similar power. We could go on group e rides and every one had a similar amount of grunt and when it came to a challenge like riding up a tech section then whoever cleaned that section was the better rider on the day. Now full power e's are wildy different and nz with different top speeds too. Now its not who cleaned that section best due to skill but who turned up on the most powerful bike...


Ahhh the good old days.

 

[Brawwp]

Me

 

[irie]

Not me.

 

[Pyr0]

I didn't until I got my new bike, but (upgrading from an old 2020 Levo) now I think the extra power is useful for climbing. I was out today in some local woods using auto mode and it was really controllable, not surging or anything like that. On the Levo I always felt like I needed to be in a higher gear and spinning more on climbs. I feel like the Amflow still has the power available at lower cadences.
I haven't even tried the boost mode yet though.

 

[RustyMTB]

You can pop down the shops in a Ferrari & get a speeding ban in a Mini . I'll leave you to join the dots.

 

[Yotaismygame]

I have yet to own a bike that was more powerful that 60nm/500watts so I cant say. But more power than that at times sounds pretty nice. I'd be more interested in high torque, low watts. Which the m2s and CX5 allow you to tune. Now if someone came out with a small motor, small removable battery, shimano type power I would like that. But my use case is pretty specific! I don't think most people on here have owned enough ebikes to really form a honest opinion. Loads of speculation goes on arund here.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Phftt, I'm sure we've all had times we've wanted that bit more, otherwise you're not pushing the limits.

I manage with what I have, but I'm not offended by having more if I need it, I don't need to use it and wouldn't all the time or id have no battery/range.

Having the option on the bike when you want it and the flexibility, why not, as long as it stays in the EMTB format of less than 30kg with MTB tyres then trail situations are within some set boundaries. (That's not a plea to start the usual arguments)

 

[GeorgesEBike]

I mainly ride in Trail Mode set to 90nm/600watts which is perfect for my rides. I average 25 miles/5,000ft elveation. I LOVE that I'm not limited to that level of power though. I ride mostly moto single track which get's hammered much more than mtb/emtb trails and the extra power is useful riding through the deep ruts and blown out dirt.

 

[Powerslider]

I do.

In other breaking news- I’d like more money too.

 

[Roaming50]

Of my 5 e-bikes I've had max of:

1) Specialized Creo (e-gravel) SL 1.1 - 240w, 35nm, 180% assist
2) Orbea Rise (eMTB) EP8rs - rs mode 350w, 60nm, 240% assist
I also tried this unlocked at 500w, 85nm, 240% assist - I did not like it so I put it back to rs mode.
3) Ari Explorer Peak (eFat) EP6 - 500w, 85nm, ? assist
4) Lauf eElja (eMTB) TQ HPR60 - 350w, 60nm, 200% assist
4) Trek Fuel+ (eMTB) TQ HPR60 - 350w, 60nm, 200% assist

So far this has been plenty. I could see wanting more than 350w and 200% when the legs are weak for big mountains but honestly, I want something that still feels like mountain biking but with legs in my 20s, not mid 50s as now.

I see no issue of having a motor that goes to 750w, 90nm and say 400% assist, as long I can ride in a natural feeling 150-200% assist the majority of the time.

 

[Brawwp]

If you want to show off to your buddies how fit you are go ride analog. IMO emtb is already prioritizing having a good time. I just want to have a good time, idc if my friends emtb is faster or if I need to ride one map slower to match them. That’s the beauty of emtb.

@Plummet OP you posted your Bosch settings and have 120nm and 90nm on two of your maps and it looks like you spend at least half your riding in those two. You don’t enjoy those maps at all? I get you want to make everything even from a competitive standpoint, but it’s not at least fun to have?

 

[levity]

We really like the “extra” power that the Avinox M2S motor can provide. You don’t have to use it, but it’s there when you want it. And it’s surprisingly well controlled.

Mrs levity and I both have new Pivot Shuttle AMP’d bikes, and it’s a blast having torque available to clear objects we couldn’t on our SL e-bikes, to pick up speed quickly, or to maintain speed on power sucking climbs.

However, the most useful advantage may be applying it in the Shuttle mode. We’ve used full Turbo assist several times on paved or dirt roads to get to trailheads or to return to camp. It saves time and legs and has allowed us to ride back-to-back-to-back days. The 28mph max speed setting is especially appreciated on paved sections.

 

[teK--]

If you want to show off to your buddies how fit you are go ride analog. IMO emtb is already prioritizing having a good time. I just want to have a good time, idc if my friends emtb is faster or if I need to ride one map slower to match them. That’s the beauty of emtb.

@Plummet OP you posted your Bosch settings and have 120nm and 90nm on two of your maps and it looks like you spend at least half your riding in those two. You don’t enjoy those maps at all? I get you want to make everything even from a competitive standpoint, but it’s not at least fun to have?

Yeah this. I don't think cleaning a climb on an ebike really counts for anything.

For us, an ebike is just a means to get across the mountain or to the top more times and faster. Descending is the equaliser!

 

[ZR1]

I like power, I've run 300bhp+ cars when a normal 150bhp car would do everything fine, happy to suffer the lower mpg mainly for the better noise and the occasional bit of acceleration.

so I'm enjoying this latest round of motors, no efficiency or weight penalty for the extra power, do end up using lower power modes in group rides but turbo has been great through solo winter slop rides. Downside is chains are only lasting 500miles.

 

[Plummet]

If you want to show off to your buddies how fit you are go ride analog. IMO emtb is already prioritizing having a good time. I just want to have a good time, idc if my friends emtb is faster or if I need to ride one map slower to match them. That’s the beauty of emtb.

@Plummet OP you posted your Bosch settings and have 120nm and 90nm on two of your maps and it looks like you spend at least half your riding in those two. You don’t enjoy those maps at all? I get you want to make everything even from a competitive standpoint, but it’s not at least fun to have?

My vote was "not really, but ill take it if its on offer"

Also that map you mentioned is literally two weeks old. The majority of my riding has been 85nm and below. Most of my boost riding is during racing amd practice for racing..... so to ge remotely competitive I need to racing on the most powerful setting.

Sure, you can clear more stuff with more power. But the what was once a reasonably similar power ride group is now splintered into dissimilar power bikes and thats making for less cohesive riding and racing that becomes more about bike you bought rather than skill.

 

[Powerslider]

I like power, I've run 300bhp+ cars when a normal 150bhp car would do everything fine, happy to suffer the lower mpg mainly for the better noise and the occasional bit of acceleration.

so I'm enjoying this latest round of motors, no efficiency or weight penalty for the extra power, do end up using lower power modes in group rides but turbo has been great through solo winter slop rides. Downside is chains are only lasting 500miles.

If you're only getting 500 miles from a chain you might want to change something. I have nearly 1700 miles on my GX Transmission chain and I'm still not at the first step on the gauge. I run all Turbo all the time too. Of course your conditions might demand more frequent replacements than I, but only getting 500 miles out of a chain is an indication to me that something is seriously outside the norm.

 

[DirkWisely]

I was happy with the power on my gen3 levo, my gen4 levo, and gen4 levo post update. I'm sure I'll be happy with the new Amflow too. So each time I got more power I didn't feel like I needed it, but I certainly wasn't unhappy to have it.

I do think that 1500 is truly more than I need or want. I don't go on rides short enough to use that much power and still go the distance. Luckily I can just configure any of the motors to be as low power as I want, and they'll just be quieter and more efficient.

 

[Powerslider]

I would like to point out that the question is if we want more power, and not if we need more power.

 

[Fugu]

Who actually wants more than the traditional full power 85nm e-bike.

I run my gen 5 at 95/750. That's about the limit before it burns too much battery. I did just fit DH tires and have not rode them yet, I might be tuning that down a bit more, not sure. And when I derestrict, that also might mean tuning down a bit more. Basically I want around 2 hours of solid mashing EMTB mode before battery empty, as a standard ride.

When there's more battery capacity, I'll use more power and torque. Until then it's pretty much irrelevant to me.

 

[Fugu]

If you want to show off to your buddies how fit you are go ride analog. IMO emtb is already prioritizing having a good time. I just want to have a good time, idc if my friends emtb is faster or if I need to ride one map slower to match them. That’s the beauty of emtb.

No I disagree. I don't ride the SL category, but I totally get and respect the approach. I think if I was 20kg lighter (proper lean) it's what I'd be riding, at 50. Power to weight is why it won't work for me. I totally get hanging on to VO2 max and leg strength as we age - that's a great idea for health span. Also getting that endorphin rush from said effort. Each to their own of course. For such a rider, analog would just mean far less elevation for a given effort and being more fatigued before hitting less of those descents. I strongly considered a Slash+ recently, but I had to be honest about my lardiness. Maybe in the future though, if I'm lucky - because it will mean I've met my health goals.

The effort always was part of MTB. I guess there will be a lot of people who start on eMTB who don't understand that though.

 

[Powerslider]

No I disagree. I don't ride the SL category, but I totally get and respect the approach. I think if I was 20kg lighter (proper lean) it's what I'd be riding, at 50. Power to weight is why it won't work for me. I totally get hanging on to VO2 max and leg strength as we age - that's a great idea for health span. Also getting that endorphin rush from said effort. Each to their own of course. For such a rider, analog would just mean far less elevation for a given effort and being more fatigued before hitting less of those descents. I strongly considered a Slash+ recently, but I had to be honest about my lardiness. Maybe in the future though, if I'm lucky - because it will mean I've met my health goals.

The effort always was part of MTB. I guess there will be a lot of people who start on eMTB who don't understand that though.

In the 1990s when i was in my 20s "the effort" was a rewarding part of mountain biking. Now at 55, not so much. Luckily eMTB came to existence or I'd still be playing golf 4 days a week instead of riding.

Pretty flexible for mid 50s though...

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Funny, I did the Bosch 2.0 update the day it released on my gen 5 CX... I still haven't tried the 600% or 120 Nm settings.

I don't find a need for more than 340-400% assistance, 85Nm, and 600W at my fitness to help to conquer everything I've ridden on my analog bikes and then some. Sure, when I'm blasting up an access or fire road to reach DH then more power equals faster laps. However faster laps will reduce overall ride time, so it depends on the mission and time available.

When I first got an eMTB, I was blasting everything in eMTB and Turbo. Boy was it fun, smiling uphill, roosting at times, scoring a bunch of KOMs... but the more time I spent on it, the less satisfied I was in certain ways.

I'd certainly buy a bike with a more powerful drive system, but it wouldn't be #1 priority or #2 or #3. Now if efficiencies improved or battery density increased... now we'd be talking. That extra power on those non-technical, mind numbing ascents when you can blast up would be awesome.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I do.

In other breaking news- I’d like more money too.

 

[doochenozzle]

Who actually wants more than the traditional full power 85nm e-bike.

I dont need more. I miss the days when pretty much all full power e's were very similar power. We could go on group e rides and every one had a similar amount of grunt and when it came to a challenge like riding up a tech section then whoever cleaned that section was the better rider on the day. Now full power e's are wildy different and nz with different top speeds too. Now its not who cleaned that section best due to skill but who turned up on the most powerful bike...


Ahhh the good old days.

I enjoy my m1 Avinox but never use boost or turbo. I would like to see torque capped at 85-100 Nm, assistance capped at 400% or less and max power capped at 750W. It would be best for all, I think. Short of putting the genie back in the bottle.

 

[ozzybmx]

I don't think all the industry brands that have jumped on the Avinox bandwagon have done it just for power.

The form factor of that system is full power (plus) in a SL package.

If the Avinox system had a down tube and motor gunt like it was pregnant with quadruplets, it wouldn't have half the appeal.

No, I dont need more than 85nm/400% but the fact I have it and the bike looks like pretty much like a regular bike, I'm happy... and its a PL Carbon which was released 2yrs ago and very few have come close with an equivalent package since the release, never mind the newly released PX form.

 

[Astro66]

The form factor of that system is full power (plus) in a SL package.

Concur. I love that most people think I'm riding a MTB. And I love 20.5kgs, yet still full power and big battery.

Regarding do I want more peak power and torque. When you have more, you can use less. But when you have less, you cannot use more. More options is better ...... right ? So to answer the poll. I usually don't need it. But I'll take it, if it's an option and I keep a slim EMTB around 20kgs.

 

[hvrider]

I just went for my first e-bike ride this month (after mountain biking for 20 yrs) - on the trek rail with 120nm. I am 105kg (6’5) - I would put myself in the class of someone who wants more than 85nm

 

[jpgell70]

My gen3 Levo has enough for me but if more is on offer then great
Personally I would like a lighter overall package, if this is achieved with a higher output motor that's cool, as many have previously stated, it can always be tuned down

 

[pagheca]

Who actually wants more than the traditional full power 85nm e-bike.

I dont need more. I miss the days when pretty much all full power e's were very similar power. We could go on group e rides and every one had a similar amount of grunt and when it came to a challenge like riding up a tech section then whoever cleaned that section was the better rider on the day. Now full power e's are wildy different and nz with different top speeds too. Now its not who cleaned that section best due to skill but who turned up on the most powerful bike...

I voted for option 2 but, as usual, I understand that people may have very different goals with their eMTB. For me, for example, riding in a group is not really an option: I prefer going alone.

 

[RoJo]

Only with a) fast swappable batteries b) gearbox
Otherwise you drain your battery too fast and do more drivetrain maintenance, worsening your overall MTB experience