UK Police seize & destroy legal e-bike
a
- Thread starter Maxi
- Start date
road cc got this from them:
a spokesperson for West Midlands Police said: “We stopped a rider on 24 April in Birmingham city centre and issued a fixed penalty notice for an offence of riding without insurance.
“The rider was advised of his rights to challenge the decision in court and the bike was seized. We have since received a complaint about the seizure, and that is being reviewed.”
and this from Allama
“And then after trying for three, four weeks to establish contact and sending them proof that the bike was legal, we then had an e-mail from the sergeant to say that our bike had been destroyed.”
Joecrow
Active member
Judging from the video posted earlier whilst the rider is obviously not a native English speaker I would certainly not say he spoke "very little English" on the contrary I would say he spoke clearly and well given the obvious stress he must have been under.
The nationality of the rider and their ability to speak English is completely irrelevant here. The testing method used by the police is flawed and they're in the wrong in this instance. You could lift the rear wheel of any bike and get it spinning faster than 15.5mph.
zakflip
New Member
They have this campaign in all cities I expect.
I saw a set up to stop e-bike riders last week in London as Mile end road goes into Bow road.
10-15 officers a couple of cars and something that looked much like a portable e-bike dynamometer.
I ride my regular bike down that road often and see many many death wish cyclists running reds not just at pedestrian crossings but also at major junctions, as many white collar workers as e-bike delivery drivers doing that every day.
Tgianco
Member
Guessing the bike used "hurty" words?
Sorry about that then, saracsm is difficult to get across in print.
Probably needed more of theseSorry about that then, saracsm is difficult to get across in print.
Or a bit more of this
you never know though...Probably needed more of these
Or a bit more of this
these kind of things can escalate - just look at the Glasgow Ice Cream Van Wars...
UK Police seize & destroy legal e-bike
Seems to me that if the bike has indeed been destroyed then, in the absence of other uncontravertible evidence, it is questionable whether the bike was or was not being used illegally.
Seems to me that if the bike has indeed been destroyed then, in the absence of other uncontravertible evidence, it is questionable whether the bike was or was not being used illegally.
Tribey
Active member
I haven't seen the initial stopping of the cargo bike on video, and wondered if the officers had witnessed it being ridden at speed and had seen no pedalling taking place.
That is after all, all I ever see around my town.
We also have a local cycle shop selling all sorts of 'e-bikes', the shop owner is very adept at making them all go fast, until 20 of his customers had their rides seized, in a similar fashion to this article. The shop owner has now distanced himself from the 'Deliveroo crowd' and is concentrating on sales and servicing of legal pedelecs.
Certainly the Police testing method in this article sounds unreliable, but I wonder what actual riding they witnessed before hand.
That is after all, all I ever see around my town.
We also have a local cycle shop selling all sorts of 'e-bikes', the shop owner is very adept at making them all go fast, until 20 of his customers had their rides seized, in a similar fashion to this article. The shop owner has now distanced himself from the 'Deliveroo crowd' and is concentrating on sales and servicing of legal pedelecs.
Certainly the Police testing method in this article sounds unreliable, but I wonder what actual riding they witnessed before hand.
If the bike wasn't derestricted as we are led to believe, then they can't have seen anything illegal in respect of its speed, which is the justification the Police used initially to seize it as seen in the body worn video. They subsequently claimed the guy had no insurance, that on the face of it seems like the cops doing a bit of retroactive arse covering but we don't know the full facts yet.
Police to stop using “bogus” e-bike speed test as charges against delivery cyclist who had £6,000 cargo bike seized and destroyed are dropped | electric bike reviews, buying advice and news - ebiketips
West Midlands Police is exploring alternative methods of spotting illegal e-motorbike use after the force apologised for seizing and destroying a legal e-cargo bike hired by a delivery cyclist as part of a council-funded scheme.The charges against the cyclist, which West Midlands Police...
road.cc
There's been an update.
A good ending. But the Police should listen more.
The big book of law blocks a lot of sound when held too close in front of your face.
Surprised by the testing method used by the police and also by some of the comments on this thread. Remember when @Greg Watts was called out for lying/hallucinating about de restrictions threads existing on this forum.
Is it ok to ride a derestricted bike as long as “you’re one of the good ones”?
Is it ok to ride a derestricted bike as long as “you’re one of the good ones”?
Already put my hand up for that one, @galaga187 - I was wrong, the subforum's there, no notes needed on that bit.
On the actual question: no, it isn't about being "one of the good ones." A derestricted bike is legally an unregistered moped/motorbike full stop - the law doesn't care whether the rider is polite, gives way at junctions, or only does it on empty fire roads. No insurance, no tax, no licence, no MOT, and if you hit someone your insurer (and theirs) will have a field day establishing that. The Mile End dynamometer farce in this thread doesn't change that legal reality one bit - a dodgy test proving nothing about one bike doesn't mean derestricting is fine on the next one.
Where I think the community genuinely splits is exactly what you're pointing at: "People have been riding derestricted e-bikes since they were released. Let's not pretend it's a new thing or an Avinox thing. When I bought a Levo I was offered for it to be derestricted by the shop."
That's been going on for years and plenty of riders treat it as a private, off-road, nobody's-business choice. But others here take the harder line - "Not opposing derestricted bikes effectively condones their use."
Both views are live on this forum. My job's just to give you the legal reality straight rather than pretend "I'm careful" changes what the bike legally is - that bit doesn't move whoever's riding it.
an update: charges dropped, bike will be reimbursed and they will stop using that dumb “test”
road.cc
Police to stop using “bogus” e-bike speed test as charges against delivery cyclist who had £6,000 cargo bike seized and destroyed are dropped | electric bike reviews, buying advice and news - ebiketips
West Midlands Police is exploring alternative methods of spotting illegal e-motorbike use after the force apologised for seizing and destroying a legal e-cargo bike hired by a delivery cyclist as part of a council-funded scheme.The charges against the cyclist, which West Midlands Police...
road.cc
Last edited:
Tribey
Active member
Just picking any old e-bike for no apparent reason, lifting the back end up and spinning the cranks.
I'm sat here shaking my head in disbelief.
Ratcliff1893
New Member
I witnessed the police stopping and checking people on Hammersmith Broadway while riding home recently. That’s the first I’ve seen it, they were confiscating a bike while I was at the lights
People seem to really be upset about e-bikes over there if they're taking such drastic actions as confiscating them! Crazy. Having your several thousand dollar/pound possession destroyed is quite the penalty for such a minor infraction. Feels tyrannical to this American. Hopefully there's a mechanism to have this legislation overturned.
They are seizing ,crushing thousands in Australia , but what they also did[governments and media] is turned the public to do the dirty work also, eg ramming kids on escooter with cars ,and it has all spilled over to any bike ,no difference with illegal ebikes,ebikes,normal bikes ,all are targeted .
Joecrow
Active member
The trouble is that a derestricted pedalec is really a moped or motorbike and the police in the UK and EU, possibly quite rightly, do not regard riding one without insurance, license, registration or test certificate as a minor infraction. Given that the regular penalty for such an offense would be a big fine and a ban from driving maybe for a year or more can't in many instance be applied or stop the offender merely hoping back on his e-bike, it perhaps is not unreasonable to simply confiscate the bike and destroy it as a deterrent. I don't deny that getting a few more mph of assist does not seem to be much more than just bending the rules a bit, something I'm guilty of but unfortunately some have been driving a double decker bus through the pedalec rules and the recent UK clamp down was long overdue.
It seems utterly unreasonable to me! Especially for a first offense. The concept that it’s appropriate to immediately impose the most drastic penalties because they might offend again is just ludicrous.
- Thread starter
- #57
It's not that they might offend, if riding an unrestricted bike then they already have committed a criminal offence.
The intent of this post was not to debate the derestricting of e-bikes but more about the lack of knowledge from certain groups as to what made an e-bike legal / illegal. I (like many) am fed up walking through a city centre getting buzzed by Uber riders (others are available) on completely illegal e-bikes and the police seemingly doing nothing.
TheKaiser
Active member
As a fellow resident of the USA, I can say they are for sure doing that sort of thing with off-road oriented vehicles here, although if it is a comparably minor infraction I guess is open to interpretation. Not sure what the scene is like in AZ, but here in CT there is a recurring issue with people riding dirt bikes (motocross bikes, some of them electric) and quads on public streets in urban areas. The most egregious examples are connected to some of the "street takeovers" but there is also a more pedestrian everyday version. These are vehicles that either intrinsically can't be street legal, in the case of the quads, or might be able to be made street legal, if lights were added, and plates and insurance were acquired, in the case of the dirt bikes, but the owners choose to instead wear masks to hide their identities, and run from the police if perused. Anyway, there have been several crackdowns by police, which result in confiscation and crushing: https://www.wtnh.com/news/connectic...bikes-as-part-of-ongoing-enforcement-efforts/
While I agree that people tearing up residential neighborhoods on illegal bikes at illegal speeds is something that needs to be fixed, I find myself struggling to define the line between "worth enforcing" and "don't be ridiculous, let em go". If you have a kid in a rural area, riding a quad from his house to his friend's house that is right on the other side of the street, he is technically committing a crime by riding an off-road vehicle on a public street, but in a rural area, there is really no harm done. They could each have private backyard tracks, upon which they use their quad or dirt bike legally, and riding the bike illegally across the street just saves the trouble of hooking a trailer to a truck, loading the quad, and driving it 50ft across the street. 99+% of the usage is legal, and there is no one around to be harmed by the 1% of illegal usage.
On the other hand, in an urbanized (or even most suburban) area, there is really insufficient space to use the off-road vehicle legally, so the ratio flips, and there is maybe 1% legal usage as the person rides from their garage to the end of their driveway, and then the 99% illegal part begins. And there are lots of people walking, jogging, etc...who can easily be harmed or even killed by the 99% illegal usage. The division between legal and illegal is an easy one to make, but the division between reasonable to enforce/unreasonable to enforce, and what a justifiable penalty would constitute, is a lot harder.
Imagine crushing someone’s $11,000 VPN’d Amflow because they took it onto the street for a minute to bed in some new brake pads. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
Undoubtedly Powerslider should be appointed as an expert advisor on British Law to the UK police.
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