taxidriver50005
Active member
Will be putting bike into lbs before my 2 yr warranty expires... Is it worth having the latest software installed at the same time... What does everyone think of the new tour+
Tour+ mode
- Thread starter taxidriver50005
- Start date
I've had Tour+ for a couple of months. I find it does exactly what you'd expect, switching to the right mode for the moment. I never switch modes manually these days. Initially when I got the upgrade, my display was a Purion. After about a month I got a Nyon fitted. Neither of them actually display Tour+ , just Tour, so don't expect the display to change if you get the upgrade done.
taxidriver50005
Active member
- Thread starter
- #3
With tour+ enabled do you still have e mtb...if so isn't this the same thing.
You still have emtb mode. It's not the same thing. EMTB switches between Tour and Turbo whilst Tour+ switches between Eco, Tour and Turbo
This should answer your questions .. there's even graph's !
New Bosch Tour + Mode
In summary, this appears to be an additional mode which sits between Tour and EMTB. It automatically adjusts assistance from Eco all the way to Turbo. You potentially get more range compared to Tour or EMTB because with Tour + It shifts down to eco on the flat...
www.emtbforums.com
I had tour+ mode installed a while ago, and now having used it for quite a while I think I preferred the old tour mode.
Hard to explain why I prefer the old tour mode, but I think it because whilst tour+ does give you automatically varying assistance from eco levels all the way up to turbo levels, it takes a lot of power input from you to get access to the higher levels of support. It likes to stay in the lower levels of assistance - which I guess is what those graphs in the thread above show.
it not a big deal and I wont get it switched back to tour (mainly because I cant be bothered to go back to the dealer), but I think I did prefer the old tour mode.
Hard to explain why I prefer the old tour mode, but I think it because whilst tour+ does give you automatically varying assistance from eco levels all the way up to turbo levels, it takes a lot of power input from you to get access to the higher levels of support. It likes to stay in the lower levels of assistance - which I guess is what those graphs in the thread above show.
it not a big deal and I wont get it switched back to tour (mainly because I cant be bothered to go back to the dealer), but I think I did prefer the old tour mode.
taxidriver50005
Active member
- Thread starter
- #8
Cheers zimmerframe....i had done a quick search but hadn't found this thread, not sure I need it but also like dicking about with how these different things feel.This should answer your questions .. there's even graph's !
New Bosch Tour + Mode
In summary, this appears to be an additional mode which sits between Tour and EMTB. It automatically adjusts assistance from Eco all the way to Turbo. You potentially get more range compared to Tour or EMTB because with Tour + It shifts down to eco on the flat...
highly_Focused
New Member
Late to the discussion but the local Bosch dealer tells me i have Tour+ as shown in an eBike Dealer report (below).
There is no way the supposed Tour+ with my bike does anything like what Bosch says it does.
Tour+ is supposed to assist from Eco through to Turbo. Rubbish. It does not even provide as much assistance as eMTB. And eMTB does not provide as much assistance as Turbo, though eMTB is a very good & useful mode and has been used for the vast majority of the over 3,000 kms i have ridden.
So either the report of my bike is wrong or Bosch are wrong. I have my thoughts on this.
And why would Bosch have Tour+ mode that has a wider power spread (from Eco to Turbo) than eMTB mode with a power spread from Tour to Turbo. Something does not compute here.
I think the Bosch marketing people are on drugs.
There is no way the supposed Tour+ with my bike does anything like what Bosch says it does.
Tour+ is supposed to assist from Eco through to Turbo. Rubbish. It does not even provide as much assistance as eMTB. And eMTB does not provide as much assistance as Turbo, though eMTB is a very good & useful mode and has been used for the vast majority of the over 3,000 kms i have ridden.
So either the report of my bike is wrong or Bosch are wrong. I have my thoughts on this.
And why would Bosch have Tour+ mode that has a wider power spread (from Eco to Turbo) than eMTB mode with a power spread from Tour to Turbo. Something does not compute here.
I think the Bosch marketing people are on drugs.
May I suggest you read the recently updated information on the Bosch website about rider modes: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/products/riding-modes#c504745
There is a very good interactive line graph comparing any or all of the 13 different modes available.
The three modes you mentioned deliver motor support based either on a constant support percentage (Turbo) or with a dynamic support percentage based on rider power (Tour+ and eMTB). Tour+ does range from 60% to 340% (up to 400% after the performance update) and eMTB does range from 140% to 340% (400% after the performance update), but in addition to different ranges Tour+ needs significantly more rider power to reach the same level of support as eMTB. These two modes simply address different rider needs.
In the graph the three motor support curves look like this
To get a better perspective on the differences I have added the constant modes Eco and Tour. Now you can clearly see how much power you need from the rider before Tour+ reaches support levels above the regular Tour mode.
highly_Focused
New Member
Thanks Shark58
I had not seen this graph.
My Tour/Tour+ and my eMTB Modes never get to the 'Motor support' level of Turbo as shown in the graph.
And tbh, if i come to a steep climb, there is no way i would contemplate grunting up it in either Tour+ or even eMTB.
An Impossibility most times.
It defeats the point of having a motor and one that puts out 85Nm of torque.
I use eMTB near always and when the grade gets too much for eMTB i go to Turbo and when that climb is done, back to eMTB.
I am happy with the Modes my bike has and i think they they provide very good assist and appropriate spread for the Mode & the condition i am riding in at any time.
My Mode use from the recent report. Curiously, to get the total 3115 kms i have ridden as per the KIOX 300, the 1314 km in the OFF position needs to be added. And i do not ride with the motor turned off.
Near all my riding is off-road and I ride a lot of steep tracks that require Turbo mode but for the majority of riding, eMTB is used & is excellent.
An
I had not seen this graph.
My Tour/Tour+ and my eMTB Modes never get to the 'Motor support' level of Turbo as shown in the graph.
And tbh, if i come to a steep climb, there is no way i would contemplate grunting up it in either Tour+ or even eMTB.
An Impossibility most times.
It defeats the point of having a motor and one that puts out 85Nm of torque.
I use eMTB near always and when the grade gets too much for eMTB i go to Turbo and when that climb is done, back to eMTB.
I am happy with the Modes my bike has and i think they they provide very good assist and appropriate spread for the Mode & the condition i am riding in at any time.
My Mode use from the recent report. Curiously, to get the total 3115 kms i have ridden as per the KIOX 300, the 1314 km in the OFF position needs to be added. And i do not ride with the motor turned off.
Near all my riding is off-road and I ride a lot of steep tracks that require Turbo mode but for the majority of riding, eMTB is used & is excellent.
An
How did you do that report? in the flow APP?
You need a rider input of about 300 W to get Tour+ into the Turbo level. With eMTB about 200 W are sufficient to reach the same level.
Tour+ addresses a different need. It's ment for the tour rider who wants to save battery with Tour+ going down to only 60% support, but still being able to conquer the occasional not to steep climb without having to change modes.
Looks like an older version of the Bosch diagnostic user report. The newer ones have a new graph looking very similar to what is shown in the Flow app. The OFF for the first bar counts the km while the motor is in the OFF mode not when it's turned off. There was a time when the Bosch diagnosic system counted any time above the cutoff speed and/or any time while riding without pedalling as being in the OFF mode.
highly_Focused
New Member
The report came from the local bike shop connecting my bike to a PC with i presume the proper Bosch dealer connection.
My bike unfortunately only has the Bosch eBike Connect app which is near useless. It will not connect with the Flow app
highly_Focused
New Member
Thanks again Shark58
I will ride some more in Tour and see if i can push beyond where i normally would change up to eMTB mode and pay attention to whether the assist in Tour does ramp up to or towards Turbo.
The Mode assists on my bike have not changed as far as i can tell since i got it new. I am not sure whether the bike came with Tour+ or if was done during 2 services by a Bosch bike dealer.
I am happy with my bikes Modes (what ever they actually are) and find them flexible and provide adequate assist for the various conditions and situations i ride in.
Your comment "The OFF for the first bar counts the km while the motor is in the OFF mode not when it's turned off. There was a time when the Bosch diagnosic system counted any time above the cutoff speed and/or any time while riding without pedalling as being in the OFF mode" is feasible as i am above assist speed, coasting and down hill a fair amount but 1314 km is more than i think actual. Maybe not?
cheers
highly_Focused
New Member
Mindful of my previous comment that i am happy with my bikes Modes, having now seen this on the link Shark58 provided, the mode i really would like is eMTB+
Maybe not always, but with the amount of climbing i do on most rides, yes please.
Unfortunately, i can only get all these modes with the Gen5 motor which i think is going to precipitate a change of bike and the outlay of $$$'s
Maybe not always, but with the amount of climbing i do on most rides, yes please.
Unfortunately, i can only get all these modes with the Gen5 motor which i think is going to precipitate a change of bike and the outlay of $$$'s
highly_Focused
New Member
Hi VWsurfbum
My Focus Jam2 6.9 bike is a Model Year 2022 manufactured in 2021. It has a Gen4 motor with the latest software & firmware. I can not get the Flow app to talk to the KIOX 300 my bike came with.
When it will not connect, the Flow app shows the models it will work with and the KIOX 300 is not listed.
I have done some AI web searches and supposedly the Flow app will work with the KIOX 300.
If i can get the Flow app to work, this would petty much negate me getting a new bike.
Can you provide any clues or instructions as to how i can get the Flow app working with my bike. If you can and it works, i would be stoked.
My Focus Jam2 6.9 bike is a Model Year 2022 manufactured in 2021. It has a Gen4 motor with the latest software & firmware. I can not get the Flow app to talk to the KIOX 300 my bike came with.
When it will not connect, the Flow app shows the models it will work with and the KIOX 300 is not listed.
I have done some AI web searches and supposedly the Flow app will work with the KIOX 300.
If i can get the Flow app to work, this would petty much negate me getting a new bike.
Can you provide any clues or instructions as to how i can get the Flow app working with my bike. If you can and it works, i would be stoked.
Last edited:
Does your Kiox 300 have 2 buttons below the screen or is it just a screen?
Then you don't have a Kiox 300 but a Kiox (no number). The Kiox 300 or Kiox 500 are smart system displays and can't be connected to a non-smart bike as yours.
pinoymamba
Member
Now we need to somehow lay over the rider wattage it takes to get those assist numbers.
Not exactly but a good indication is adding the ECO+ mode to the graph.
All modes are shown in standard configuration without any modification in the Flow app. The ECO+ mode starts with the motor in OFF and engages the motor at a predefined rider input. According to the help text in the Flow app the standard engagement point is 200W rider input.
So when you add the line for ECO+, the break, where the support jumps from zero to the 60% of the standard ECO mode is at the 200W rider input point. Assuming the scale for that axis is linear this gives us a good indication of watts needed for the desired motor support.
Sorry, but not possible for your bike. See possible improvement further down.
Your Gen4 motor (BDU450) is from the non smart BES2 (Bosch eBike System 2) era. The newer Gen4 motor (BDU37) is from the smart system BES3 (Bosch eBike System 3) family. The newest Gen5 motor (BDU38) also belongs to the BES3 family.
Although they are both called Gen4 the BDU450 and BDU37 are not compatible to each other. The main difference is a newer CAN bus protocol on the BDU37 which makes it impossible for components from the smart system to talk to components from the non smart system. You simply can't mix old and new.
But there might be a small improvement possible for you. Since you have TOUR+ installed you also have the eMTB mode for standard length cranks installed. This was mandatory for bikes with TOUR+. You could ask your Bosch dealer to install the package that contains TOUR (without +) and eMTB for short cranks.
The eMTB for short cranks mode will need less rider input to reach the higher motor support levels.
Plummet
Flash Git
Why on earth does it matter?
As long as you have a few different modes with different assistance levels that's all that really matter.
I rode one motor type that only had an eco and a boost setting. That was a bit shit because you couldnt ride in inbetween values. It was full boost or sweet fa....
Personally I run the following
Eco+ 60nm
Tour+ 70nm
Emtb 85nm
Emtb+ 100nm
As long as you have a few different modes with different assistance levels that's all that really matter.
I rode one motor type that only had an eco and a boost setting. That was a bit shit because you couldnt ride in inbetween values. It was full boost or sweet fa....
Personally I run the following
Eco+ 60nm
Tour+ 70nm
Emtb 85nm
Emtb+ 100nm
highly_Focused
New Member
2 buttons below the screen
I finally did what i should have done earlier and looked on the back of the display unit and it is a BU1330 which i now read is not a KIOX 300.
Interestingly, if i search for images of a KIOX 300, i get some images of my display. Wrong.
I asked an AI i have grown to like very much (Perplexity) giving it some info about my motor and display unit and it gave me the complete run down of what App i can use (not the Flow app) and why.
So i will move on and accept the modes i currently have as 'they are what thy are'.
Last edited:
highly_Focused
New Member
Shark58
You have excelled again. Your knowledge of all this is very impressive. Thank you.
I will leave things as they are as they really are not a problem. I was keen to get some adjustability if possible and i now know, and accept, that it is not possible. And why.
I have worked out a solution that will give me plenty of tuning & tweaking. An AMFLOW eMTB. An expensive solution though.
_Jason_South_Wales_
Member
Hi. I have a Gen4 smart system on my cube 85nm along with the Kiox300 display.
I don't know much about bikes so wondered what you mean by
Eco+ 60nm
Tour+ 70nm
Emtb 85nm
Emtb+ 100nm
Does this mean I can adjust the torque on each mode manually?
If so how would I go about doing this?
Thanks
Plummet
Flash Git
Im fairly sure you can adjust torque on the flow app on gen 4. I certainly can on gen 5 bosch.
As @Plummet wrote, you can easily customise any of the available riding modes to your specific needs.
This is done inside the Flow app with the ebike connected and switched on. Select your bike in the app and go to riding modes. Tap on the mode you want to customise and a screen will open with five different parameters to change to your liking. Max torque is one of those.
You can find a detailed description on the Bosch help pages: Customise riding modes
StroudTom
New Member
- Mar 5, 2026
- 2
- 4
I went for a ride up a big mountain in Wales last weekend, my 1st ride on an eMTB. Loved it.
I used Tour+ (default settings) almost the whole way.
I haven't customised the motor at all yet, so the bike came with eco, tour+, emtb and turbo.
I really like tour+, it is very economical.
Going up the mountain i was in no rush, so sitting i was using mainly gears 1-5, and standing 5-12 most of the time.
If one is in no rush Tour+ gives great range, but gives turbo assistance when needed.
I found that just by standing on the pedals without trying very hard i could climb any obstacles with ease.
I used Tour+ (default settings) almost the whole way.
I haven't customised the motor at all yet, so the bike came with eco, tour+, emtb and turbo.
I really like tour+, it is very economical.
Going up the mountain i was in no rush, so sitting i was using mainly gears 1-5, and standing 5-12 most of the time.
If one is in no rush Tour+ gives great range, but gives turbo assistance when needed.
I found that just by standing on the pedals without trying very hard i could climb any obstacles with ease.
Similar Threads
-
-
Looking for tips on setting up different modes on Bosch Gen 5 with update
- Started by big_scot_nanny
- Replies: 30
-
-
Wireless mode switcher red light - battery replacement procedure?- Started by steve_sordy
- Replies: 27
-
