Torn between Norco Fluid VLT and Transition Relay

[f1xedgear]

Both bikes are on sale/closeout right now for $6000:

• Norco Fluid VLT C2 140 (Fox Performance)
• Transition Relay Carbon GX AXS

Potentially important context:

• I'm 6'5", just over 200lbs
• Trail area is Western Michigan
• Current bike is a 2008 Giant Anthem 1, nothing wrong with it, just want something new/different/fun
• Don't really have a hard budget, but these two seem like an unbeatable value at $6000.
• I've tried a Trek Powerfly FS+ 4 "full power" eMTB and disliked it, way too heavy
• Also tried a Giant Trance Elite which was way better, definitely want something in the "SL" category

I've read endless threads and reviews on the Fazua system and am kinda ok with taking a risk on it, since the dealer is so close. Some of the local trails are not technically e-bike friendly so taking the battery out is a nice option with the Transition. Seems like the larger battery and lower peak power output would also give me more range. The TR blue paint is also .

Leaning towards Transition here, but don't really have a way to test either option directly. There's a local demo day for Transition this week, but they will only have the Regulator SX available to test (no Relay), but at least it's something and would be the same motor as the Norco Fluid uses.

 

[Ndanger]

Both bikes are on sale/closeout right now for $6000:

• Norco Fluid VLT C2 140 (Fox Performance)
• Transition Relay Carbon GX AXS

Potentially important context:

• I'm 6'5", just over 200lbs
• Trail area is Western Michigan
• Current bike is a 2008 Giant Anthem 1, nothing wrong with it, just want something new/different/fun
• Don't really have a hard budget, but these two seem like an unbeatable value at $6000.
• I've tried a Trek Powerfly FS+ 4 "full power" eMTB and disliked it, way too heavy
• Also tried a Giant Trance Elite which was way better, definitely want something in the "SL" category

I've read endless threads and reviews on the Fazua system and am kinda ok with taking a risk on it, since the dealer is so close. Some of the local trails are not technically e-bike friendly so taking the battery out is a nice option with the Transition. Seems like the larger battery and lower peak power output would also give me more range. The TR blue paint is also .

Leaning towards Transition here, but don't really have a way to test either option directly. There's a local demo day for Transition this week, but they will only have the Regulator SX available to test (no Relay), but at least it's something and would be the same motor as the Norco Fluid uses.

Quote, "kinda ok with taking a risk"

So my first few questions are, for your part of the world isn't this the time of year that your "Snow Checked" snow mobile about to arrive With so many new bikes with qualified dependable powertrains coming early spring, would it be a good time to throw some studded tires on the Anthem1

Is knowingly buying something that has to be qualified with the phrase, kinda ok with taking a risk, part of an enduring judgement / decision process.

I really like the bike brands that you are considering, I think that there will be some great designs and motor choices soon.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I'll be placing my XL CF Relay for sale here rather shortly as I'm ordering a new bike this very week. You can buy the frame/ motor system only or an entire build. Mine has honestly been great and it's not huge hours and also doesn't get ridden in inclement weather because our trails don't do well in that stuff. The rear shock is lightly used as well as I've been running a coil. Lastly it includes 2 sizes of cranks and a Reach adjust headset.

I'm realistic about what they are worth. Maybe $3.3K for the frame only or about $4.7K as a complete build.

 

[f1xedgear]

for your part of the world isn't this the time of year that your "Snow Checked" snow mobile about to arrive

We still have a Fall season here!

I think that there will be some great designs and motor choices soon.

Are you thinking of anything specific (e.g. more Avinox bikes coming, or a new generation of Bosch) or just a general observation that manufacturers iterate on products each year?

I'll be placing my XL CF Relay for sale here rather shortly

I'll look at it for sure, but having the 2y warranty on the motor system would be nice. What are you ordering to replace it?

 

[Ndanger]

We still have a Fall season here!

Are you thinking of anything specific (e.g. more Avinox bikes coming, or a new generation of Bosch) or just a general observation that manufacturers iterate on products each year?

I'll look at it for sure, but having the 2y warranty on the motor system would be nice. What are you ordering to replace it?

Yes, Fall can be a great time of year, in the Rockies and Pacific Northwest we have been having warm Indian Summers which makes for a brilliant October. I spend time in Wyoming but not familiar with areas east.

In general there are a host of reasons for compelling changes for early Spring. A number of companies will have bikes available with both Avinox / Gen 5 Bosch that currently utilize other motor systems. They are certainly an efficient and reasonably reliable choice. There are a few bikes that I like I have been holding off with for this coming year with the new powertrain coming.

Other motor brands are stepping up to the plate as well so I am sure that since the "cat is out of the bag" in regards to Avinox there is pressure to up the game.

 

[Suns_PSD]

We still have a Fall season here!

Are you thinking of anything specific (e.g. more Avinox bikes coming, or a new generation of Bosch) or just a general observation that manufacturers iterate on products each year?

I'll look at it for sure, but having the 2y warranty on the motor system would be nice. What are you ordering to replace it?

There is a rebuilder in the USA that does them for $249 I think? That's new bearings, seals, etc. They don't have other weird problems like belts or shafts that break.

My motor is fine. We don't have mountains nor water so it's had an easy life. I usually only burn about 200 watts of the battery on a ride and due to a divorce it's not been ridden much over the last 10 months, like 1-2x per month.

I'm getting either a Regulator or the new Antidote. I actually really like the Relay but I'm only 5'11" and it's just too big for me. Also now that I'm divorced I'm going to start doing bike trips and so wanted a bigger battery to keep up with other full powers. It really does fine keeping up with full power bikes on trails, but on a road climb the full powers will motor away.

 

[f1xedgear]

I actually really like the Relay but I'm only 5'11" and it's just too big for me.

I probably need the XL size, if that's what you have, i can see how it would be too big!

I'm getting either a Regulator or the new Antidote

The Regulator SX looks awesome too, i just don't want to spend $1200 more and get Deore with a base Lyrik fork.

There are a few bikes that I like I have been holding off with for this coming year with the new powertrain coming.

Other motor brands are stepping up to the plate as well so I am sure that since the "cat is out of the bag" in regards to Avinox there is pressure to up the game.

Competition is certainly good, and Avinox seems pretty compelling. The Druid Lite 3 is $3000 more, is it that much more compelling? I haven't seen any Bosch news so unsure what if anything will change in their lineup for 2026

 

[Suns_PSD]

Well make me an offer on either the frame motor package or an entire build and let's talk.
Like I said I'm ordering a new bike this week.

 

[f1xedgear]

And for what it's worth, Michigan's ebike laws clearly limit 750W and 20mph assistance cutoff for class 1 (mirroring similar federal agency rules). Avinox greatly exceeds this at 1000W/28MPH. I am aware this is configurable, but it feels like a sketchy gray area. We should always follow the trail etiquette and be considerate of other riders, but at some point I think someone will make a stink about this and ruin it for everyone.

 

[Ndanger]

And for what it's worth, Michigan's ebike laws clearly limit 750W and 20mph assistance cutoff for class 1 (mirroring similar federal agency rules). Avinox greatly exceeds this at 1000W/28MPH. I am aware this is configurable, but it feels like a sketchy gray area. We should always follow the trail etiquette and be considerate of other riders, but at some point I think someone will make a stink about this and ruin it for everyone.

Unfortunately you may be correct, Consideration for others, respect, politeness, principles... etc are in short supply in many parts of the world. Avinox and the scramble to match power levels, did open the door for the sport to acquire a stigma.

 

[f1xedgear]

I test rode a Transition Regulator SX and a Relay at a Transition demo day this week.

Really loved the Regulator and the Bosch SX motor, no complaints other than the crank ratchet is quite loud compared to the freehub. It felt fine but sounded really weird to have the motor overrun spin that ratchet every time I stopped pedaling.

They only had a size medium Relay so I didn't bother taking it on the trail, but in the parking lot I could feel that the Fazua motor was not as strong as the Bosch. The ring remote definitely felt cheap and fiddly just like everyone says. The Transition rep assured me that they haven't been seeing anywhere near the level of warranty issues with Fazua that forum threads seem to indicate exist.

All that to say, I bought the Norco Fluid VLT . The motor system is great and the component spec on the C2 was pretty good. I did still think about an Amflow, but the frame is extremely hideous and the geometry looked like it wouldn't fit me quite as well.

 

[Ndanger]

I test rode a Transition Regulator SX and a Relay at a Transition demo day this week.

Really loved the Regulator and the Bosch SX motor, no complaints other than the crank ratchet is quite loud compared to the freehub. It felt fine but sounded really weird to have the motor overrun spin that ratchet every time I stopped pedaling.

I had a similar experience with the regulator SX , I was so distracted by the noise that I did not enjoy riding it.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yah, I still prefer the Fazua 60 motor performance over the Bosch SX. The F60 is quieter, more hidden, and has from a 430-480 watt battery.

PS. My XL Relay frame/ motor system will be for sale very soon. Within 1-2 weeks.

 

[f1xedgear]

I think I bought the last one?? Looking today every size/color is either out of stock or unavailable to ship to store.

 

[keenxxx]

I probably watched every video on the Relay as it was the primary front runner for my first EMTB purchase. The biggest pro was the XXL sizing followed by the closeout pricing. Right before I pulled the trigger I found the Fazua facebook group and it made me pause. I decided to hit up the biggest Transition dealer in my area (they had a Relay in stock though it was only a large) When I walked through the door and said Transition emtb the guy rolled over an XL Regulator and as nice as it looked I told him I was interested in the Relay specifically for the XXL sizing. He rolled over the Relay and was honest enough to say the large was too small for me @ 6'4". I poked @ the battery door and we started a conversation about the battery door, charging a Fazua in general. The dealer reeled back a bit with a funny look on his face and I didn't get the best vibe. Can you imagine buying an automobile and inquiring about the engine (or electric drive system) and having a dealer shrug on a bike? Anywys left the shop with a big S sized S6. After my first ride emtb I realized even though Fazua might have a solid warranty theres no way I wan to deal with etmb drive system problems or even some of the less minor Relay issues with the battery door, ring controller or battery securement.

 

[f1xedgear]

The purple color looks awesome!

 

[JP-NZ]

I think I bought the last one?? Looking today every size/color is either out of stock or unavailable to ship to store.

How are you finding the Fluid VLT? I see the SX just got updated to 60nm and they are VERY cheap here in NZ at currently $5250 USD. Tempting!

 

[f1xedgear]

I find that Turbo is almost always too much power for the trails I ride (singletrack without extreme elevation gain), and even eMTB(+) is overpowered. Tour+ gives me pretty great assistance level and if i mix in some Eco for the really flat bits I can ride for 30mi (48km).

I'm certainly not taking full advantage of the suspension with the trails I typically ride, but it isn't holding me back either. Feels very supportive and doesn't suck away my pedaling energy like bikes with the same travel used to do 20y ago. I used to be better a jumps when I rode more regularly, and am trying to get back into it.

The norco ride-aligned recommended suspension settings were way too stiff for me and put me at like 10% or lower sag.

Coming from a 15yo XC bike has been interesting, I'm still getting used to the handling differences, especially 800mm wide bars (which I will probably cut to 780).

One minor Bosch nitpick I have is that with gloves on I feel no tactile feedback from the mini remote. Sometimes I double-click the button by accident, and i have also changed modes by accident and not noticed immediately.

Overall very satisfied, it is quite fun to ride and the trail sections that have large drops and roots really highlight the bike's suspension capabilities and it feels very confident compared to a 90/100mm XC bike.

 

[JP-NZ]

Good to hear, that purple is a very cool colour. Sadly the green is all thats left in my size. Some thinking to do for sure

 

[Fattrick]

So anyone has a strong opinion about the Fluid VLT 2024 as a trail ripper? On the verge of buying one. Thanks

 

[Fattrick]

The purple color looks awesome!

View attachment 168344 View attachment 168345

What size is this? S4 or S5?

 

[f1xedgear]

So anyone has a strong opinion about the Fluid VLT 2024 as a trail ripper?

Not sure exactly what you mean, but on my local XC trails I never have to look behind me

What size is this? S4 or S5?

It is an S5