Levo Gen 4 Specialized Gen 4 Levo - Official Thread

[Polar]

To date, the 600 Wh battery is not even available in the stores

Neither is the T-splitter for lights and that's annoying for me since I want Supernova M99 mini pro connected to the battery.

 

[DirkWisely]

I'm excited to try riding with just the RE. Might be fun for shorter rides. I'll try it at least once.

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

Neither is the T-splitter for lights and that's annoying for me since I want Supernova M99 mini pro connected to the battery.

Really hoping Lupine make a light that will work with the levo.

 

[Polar]

Really hoping Lupine make a light that will work with the levo.

With the Y-Splitter Lupine and any other lights that can be connected to the Levo battery works.
On my G3 Levo it took 3-4 hours to make the cable harness but with Levo 4 it takes 10 minutes if you got the Y-Splitter.

 

[PaulH2B]

Hi folks, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what we can expect from future updates for the Levo 4 and the 3.1 motor.

It looks like SRAM has now opened up the wireless communication protocol used in their AXS Transmission systems. You can see this in the latest DJI Avinox update, which now supports Coast Shift, Auto Shift, and Chain Protection Mode. To eneble these features, the motor system needs to be allowed to exchange data directly with the electronic drivetrain system. Previously, this was only available for SRAM’s own Powertrain system.

Shimano has also recently opened the DI2 interface for the latest Bosch motors/bikes, enabling similar functionality on those models.

Do you think there’s a chance that Specialized will license SRAM’s protocol and bring these kinds of features to the Levo 4 and SL2 via a software update?
I’m honestly hoping for it—or maybe even expecting it.

To be fair, I don’t really need a power update. The 3.1 motor already delivers more than enough torque and performance. What I’d really like is better fine-tuning options for how the power is delivered. Even with the 10/100 “dynamic micro adjust” setting, the motor response still feels too strong. I’d prefer a setup that allows for more consistent rider input. Anything above a 50/100 setting, regardless of mode, already feels like Turbo mode to me.

What do you think—what kind of updates are coming, and what would you personally like to see?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It looks like SRAM has now opened up the wireless communication protocol used in their AXS Transmission systems. You can see this in the latest DJI Avinox update, which now supports Coast Shift, Auto Shift, and Chain Protection Mode.

This is not quite correct. SRAM’s protocol remains closed. DJI sense the shifting via the power draw from the connected motor>derailleur cable. Kinda like they intercept the shift, then rotate the front chainring a given amount to complete the shift.

What’s really smart is they know what gear you are in, and how much to rotate the front chainring, based on an algorithmic calculation - bigger rear cassette cogs require more rotation of the front ring to complete the shift.

 

[PaulH2B]

This is not quite correct. SRAM’s protocol remains closed. DJI sense the shifting via the power draw from the connected motor>derailleur cable. Kinda like they intercept the shift, then rotate the front chainring a given amount to complete the shift.
What’s really smart is they know what gear you are in, and how much to rotate the front chainring ...

OK, I didn't know that, thanks Rob. Those are interesting insights. DJI seems to have come up with a smart solution. I wonder if Specialized can or wants to do something similar? Now my hopes are a bit dampened, on similar functionality for Levo 4 / SL2.

 

[Citylad77]

Is this bike worth that cash NO

After riding the Bike i would say 6-7k Tops, and thats being generous down to the back up and support

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

OK, I didn't know that, thanks Rob. Those are interesting insights. DJI seems to have come up with a smart solution. I wonder if Specialized can or wants to do something similar? Now my hopes are a bit dampened, on similar functionality for Levo 4 / SL2.

There’s no reason why Specialized can’t do this. Although it’ll take some programming to do. Brose have the same motor to derailleur cable to power the AXS shifter, so in theory, they should be able to do it the same way that DJI have.

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

Hi folks, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what we can expect from future updates for the Levo 4 and the 3.1 motor.

It looks like SRAM has now opened up the wireless communication protocol used in their AXS Transmission systems. You can see this in the latest DJI Avinox update, which now supports Coast Shift, Auto Shift, and Chain Protection Mode. To eneble these features, the motor system needs to be allowed to exchange data directly with the electronic drivetrain system. Previously, this was only available for SRAM’s own Powertrain system.

Shimano has also recently opened the DI2 interface for the latest Bosch motors/bikes, enabling similar functionality on those models.

Do you think there’s a chance that Specialized will license SRAM’s protocol and bring these kinds of features to the Levo 4 and SL2 via a software update?
I’m honestly hoping for it—or maybe even expecting it.

To be fair, I don’t really need a power update. The 3.1 motor already delivers more than enough torque and performance. What I’d really like is better fine-tuning options for how the power is delivered. Even with the 10/100 “dynamic micro adjust” setting, the motor response still feels too strong. I’d prefer a setup that allows for more consistent rider input. Anything above a 50/100 setting, regardless of mode, already feels like Turbo mode to me.

What do you think—what kind of updates are coming, and what would you personally like to see?

I doubt this will come to Specialized ... and if it does will be for the S-works version, they not really generous that way.

Comment based on the lack of software improvements for the gen3 or the Mission Control app.

 

[Power1tobe]

Back to the subject in hand…….

seriously considering selling a kidney for……….

Levo 4 Pro in onyx blue

White SPECIALISED large decal on down tube.

GX flat top silver plated chain (just like silver chains)

with a 600w battery and a range extender (for long days out).

schwalbe radials

ergon core e-mtb

magpeds

Fidlock

Ergon Gt1 (very comfortable for those of us with arthritis in the hands)

I say do it but hop on a plane and fly across the pond to the USA and have them enable the Class 3 and fly back. Plus if you fly into a MTB mecca here you double the visit.

 

[PaulH2B]

What’s really smart is they know what gear you are in, and how much to rotate the front chainring, based on an algorithmic calculation - bigger rear cassette cogs require more rotation of the front ring to complete the shift.

Well, if they don't use SRAM's communication protocol, there's almost only one feasible method to achieve this: by calculating it based on the rotational speeds (motor/rear wheel) and the respective gear ratio. Since they know by default which chainring and cassette are installed on the bike, and they can determine the rear wheel's rotational speed with relatively high resolution, they can deduce which gear the rider is currently in. Based on that, they can also estimate how long the chainring needs to continue spinning (freewheeling) to complete the shifting process.

There’s no reason why Specialized can’t do this. Although it’ll take some programming to do. Brose have the same motor to derailleur cable to power the AXS shifter, so in theory, they should be able to do it the same way that DJI have.

Well, I’d like to point out that Specialized uses only a single magnet on the rear wheel, which means the rotational input data isn't as precise for such an algorithm to function in the same way. Some gear shifts are already completed before the wheel has even finished a full rotation, making it difficult to accurately determine the gear state or timing purely based on wheel speed data — especially when shifting several gears in a row.

Still hoping that spec developers will realize it somehow.

 

[Power1tobe]

Neither is the T-splitter for lights and that's annoying for me since I want Supernova M99 mini pro connected to the battery.

Let me check on this for you because one of the guys I ride with has the splitter and a light on his bike. So they are available here in the US.

Update: Just checked it is available here in US, or at least it says I can order it and it will ship

 

[Power1tobe]

Well, if they don't use SRAM's communication protocol, there's almost only one feasible method to achieve this: by calculating it based on the rotational speeds (motor/rear wheel) and the respective gear ratio. Since they know by default which chainring and cassette are installed on the bike, and they can determine the rear wheel's rotational speed with relatively high resolution, they can deduce which gear the rider is currently in. Based on that, they can also estimate how long the chainring needs to continue spinning (freewheeling) to complete the shifting process.


Well, I’d like to point out that Specialized uses only a single magnet on the rear wheel, which means the rotational input data isn't as precise for such an algorithm to function in the same way. Some gear shifts are already completed before the wheel has even finished a full rotation, making it difficult to accurately determine the gear state or timing purely based on wheel speed data — especially when shifting several gears in a row.

Still hoping that spec developers will realize it somehow.

I didn't want to point this out but I don't believe its as simple as Specialized developing an Algo and some SW. Again this is were DJI shines, their motors and controls on/of those motors. And it was stated above DJI is Amflow, however, Amflow was really a test platform for the Avinox eDrive System and never intended to start a Bike company. Hence why they are now partnering with other Bike companies.

 

[Polar]

Let me check on this for you because one of the guys I ride with has the splitter and a light on his bike. So they are available here in the US.

Update: Just checked it is available here in US, or at least it says I can order it and it will ship

I know it's available in US website but they don't ship outside US and asked Ridecare Nordic when it was available in EU but they didn't have a clue.
I gladly pay someone if they could ship one to me
I was sure the bike was delivered with the splitter but no.

 

[Power1tobe]

I know it's available in US website but they don't ship outside US and asked Ridecare Nordic when it was available in EU but they didn't have a clue.
I gladly pay someone if they could ship one to me

Let me talk to my dealer and see if they can get them in at cost ($47.99us) without shipping charges. Splesh wants like $15 bucks to ship to my house.

 

[Mikerb]

I know there are "tech" enthusiasts here, but for me all I want from my EMTB is top of the range components and reliability...could not give a fig about screens, stats, data, auto this or auto that....I just want a bike that performs on the trail. Every "tech" gizmo to me is just a distraction from the riding experience and the opportunity to go wrong! There is so much more that brands could focus on to enhance the experience of owning an EMTB......proper water proofing, better motor reliability, decent warranties, better value for money.

 

[DirkWisely]

Have you guys noticed the weight balance is much different from the gen3? I was struggling to get up a steep section, and I found that on the gen4 I need to get my weight back or the wheel spins, while on the gen3 I had to get my weight forward or my front wheel lifted. It's a pretty big difference.

 

[garethky]

There’s no reason why Specialized can’t do this. Although it’ll take some programming to do. Brose have the same motor to derailleur cable to power the AXS shifter, so in theory, they should be able to do it the same way that DJI have.

I don't know how the DJI bike is wired, but the Levo has the Y cable that joins the lights and the shifter power to a power out port on the TCU. I kinda doubt that they have the required current sensing hardware built into the TCU to sense the servo in the derailleur powering up. (I'm a software engineer and sometimes I dabble in hardware)

But the TCU does display the gear the AXS derailleur is in (its in there, check in the manual). So it knows when gear shifts happen (even if its slightly delayed). They don't need any magic current sensing to do this. They also don't need to read the wheel rotation sensor. They must already have some logic around the speed sensor to tell if the back wheel is still rolling. And they have a crank torque sensor which is a much better indication of pedal input.

Just run the motor a little bit if they register a shift and the pedal torque is close to 0.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

Have you guys noticed the weight balance is much different from the gen3? I was struggling to get up a steep section, and I found that on the gen4 I need to get my weight back or the wheel spins, while on the gen3 I had to get my weight forward or my front wheel lifted. It's a pretty big difference.

Yes, for me on an S5 the G4 is a better climber, even with the shorter chainstays.

My G3 used to lift at the front on really steep climbs and the G4 does not.

G4 is much better.

 

[raymondo]

Hi from the UK first ride of my alloy Gen 4.
coming from a Whyte E150(which I still have)
I absoutely love it!
motor is soooo quiet compared to the Bosch on the Whyte , suspension set up is a big step up also.
Front end seems a bit high, so may swap out to some flatter bars. Anyone else found this?
front brake needs a look over as it's not powerful enough for my very injured hand.

 

[Polar]

Hi from the UK first ride of my alloy Gen 4.
coming from a Whyte E150(which I still have)
I absoutely love it!
motor is soooo quiet compared to the Bosch on the Whyte , suspension set up is a big step up also.
Front end seems a bit high, so may swap out to some flatter bars. Anyone else found this?
front brake needs a look over as it's not powerful enough for my very injured hand.

You got DB8 brakes try Maven they're like day and night compared to what you have they're stock on the other Levo 4.

 

[raymondo]

mine is the comp which does have the Maven. The rear one is amazing, guess a potential issue. Will get the shop to have a loo at its 1st free check over.

 

[Polar]

mine is the comp which does have the Maven. The rear one is amazing, guess a potential issue. Will get the shop to have a loo at its 1st free check over.

Ok you didn't mention comp besides something can be wrong with the front when the pads are worn down try Galfer purple pads.

 

[Larsey]

mine is the comp which does have the Maven. The rear one is amazing, guess a potential issue. Will get the shop to have a loo at its 1st free check over.

3 of the 4 Maven equipped bikes I have tried or owned developed air in either one or both brakes.

I finally broke down and bought the Pro brake bleed kit when it was on sale. Make sure to use Maxima Mineral oil. Follow the SRAM YouTube video. Great brakes when properly bled but actually dangerous when not.

It is pretty easy once you do the first one. Key is to make sure pistons are fully reset and have some isopropyl to clean the caliper and lever (there will be a little spillage)

 

[DirkWisely]

I set my motor responsiveness to slow on a ride last night and I prefer it. I was having the rear wheel spin out when I first get up on the pedal with the default settings. I imagine this is one of the benefits of the DJIs vastly superior rear wheel sensor.

 

[TorAtle]

Given all the investment in the new Levo platform, what do you think is likely to be re-used in the next Tero, Tero X and Levo SL? Motor, removable batteries, display, controller?

I'd like to see everything carried over to the next Tero. Would be a great commuter, plus the ability to swap batteries between the Tero and Levo. Not sure about the Levo SL given the weight.

 

[robikinkela]

The 3.1 motor already delivers more than enough torque and performance. What I’d really like is better fine-tuning options for how the power is delivered. Even with the 10/100 “dynamic micro adjust” setting, the motor response still feels too strong. I’d prefer a setup that allows for more consistent rider input.

I completely agree with you, something like a 5/100 is needed.

 

[wildsau2]

Neither is the T-splitter for lights and that's annoying for me since I want Supernova M99 mini pro connected to the battery.

The Supernova does not have an on/off switch..

 

[garethky]

Neither is the T-splitter for lights and that's annoying for me since I want Supernova M99 mini pro connected to the battery.

I put lights on mine. The US link for the splitter is here: Y-Splitter for Wired Lights, Specialized 3.1 Full Power System

I used the Lupine SL MiniMax. It has a cable remote for on/off and high/low beam.

Unfortunately that light is set up to turn on at power up. The idea is for it to be a daytime running light. So it’s easy to run around in the daytime trying to blind people and draining the battery.

But the most bizarre thing is the TCU’s automatic charging feature. It has an internal battery and it wakes up to charge when it runs low. When this happens the light comes on! So be aware when selecting lights. Might be better to have a light that doesnt automatically turn on.