Specialized 3.1 S-Works motor review and DJI power comparison

[Fangs2k]

Indeed, but it does indicate there is no great shortcoming with the DJI, a shortcoming which was discussed in the previous posts (vs the Bosch Gen 5).

Agree, I think the more power you have available, and the more you use it, the more energy you’ll consume.

More on statistics ;

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
– Aaron Levenstein, Business Professor at Baruch College

 

[Citylad77]

Are they riding with the same level of assist though?

yes same as what they would use on the Gen 3s. 3 out of the 4 said that they would not have upgraded to 4s from 3s if they had the chance to go on one first.

 

[DirkWisely]

They're max assist - turbo, so no. The motors that support high wattage are using it.

Well then obviously they will get less range. They're getting more assist.

 

[Citylad77]

Well then obviously they will get less range. They're getting more assist.

I never said that they are useing Max assists, they are being ridden on the same tracks as before, the batt range appears less than the Gen3s a few have had the power cut off when going over jumps etc. I understand that there is a fix for this design flaw.

 

[Account Deleted]

Well then obviously they will get less range. They're getting more assist.

Sorry, I was on a different conversation than you lol... I was talking about the range tests chart

 

[JuiceStainV&RStick]

And, to publicly argue with myself, 2025 Santa Cruz Vala Review | Conventional Looks, Class-Leading Performance

The Vala, with it's new 600Wh Bosch, doesn't get close:
View attachment 165940

Again, that's in Turbo. But, even the old e160 killed it with same Wh.

These are really just tire efficiency tests . Pretty pointless without control tires. Apparently the Magic Mary rolls slow on the rear, who knew?

 

[Bikedriver19]

I spose the established brands and there Fans don’t like it when a new kid arrives in town and just wipes the floor with the best they can come up with.

Yep, wipes the floor , kicks ass, takes names, and then kills it.

The new kid , I mean.

Seems what you've got here is an efficiency test. From what I can see, DJI is running pretty damn efficient.

Interesting - Efficiency is the metric, that no one really talks about or advertises. "Power" doesn't mean much, if its at poor efficiency. Motor and gearing and control.

Like that TQ system for TREK -it was smaller, but inefficient, ran HOT. (but marketing won't tell you that)

I'd say, DJI and, now perhaps Maxon, has everyone beat, on efficiency. Efficiency is a most critical variable, all the way around, and you've got to take it all into account: motor efficiency, gear efficiency, and controller efficiency subtracts from actual power you get at the wheel.

 

[JP-NZ]

And, to publicly argue with myself, 2025 Santa Cruz Vala Review | Conventional Looks, Class-Leading Performance

The Vala, with it's new 600Wh Bosch, doesn't get close:
View attachment 165940

Again, that's in Turbo. But, even the old e160 killed it with same Wh.

The one bugbear I had with the flow tests is there is no mention of Time taken or rider input power. The Slash+ climbed more metres than Vala sure but I gurantee the Slash took a LOT longer.

 

[Citylad77]

Yep, wipes the floor , kicks ass, takes names, and then kills it.

The new kid , I mean.

Seems what you've got here is an efficiency test. From what I can see, DJI is running pretty damn efficient.

Interesting - Efficiency is the metric, that no one really talks about or advertises. "Power" doesn't mean much, if its at poor efficiency. Motor and gearing and control.

Like that TQ system for TREK -it was smaller, but inefficient, ran HOT. (but marketing won't tell you that)

I'd say, DJI and, now perhaps Maxon, has everyone beat, on efficiency. Efficiency is a most critical variable, all the way around, and you've got to take it all into account: motor efficiency, gear efficiency, and controller efficiency subtracts from actual power you get at the

Yep, wipes the floor , kicks ass, takes names, and then kills it.

The new kid , I mean.

Seems what you've got here is an efficiency test. From what I can see, DJI is running pretty damn efficient.

Interesting - Efficiency is the metric, that no one really talks about or advertises. "Power" doesn't mean much, if its at poor efficiency. Motor and gearing and control.

Like that TQ system for TREK -it was smaller, but inefficient, ran HOT. (but marketing won't tell you that)

I'd say, DJI and, now perhaps Maxon, has everyone beat, on efficiency. Efficiency is a most critical variable, all the way around, and you've got to take it all into account: motor efficiency, gear efficiency, and controller efficiency subtracts from actual power you get at the wheel.

Yes I agree..

 

[Citylad77]

Yep, wipes the floor , kicks ass, takes names, and then kills it.

The new kid , I mean.

Seems what you've got here is an efficiency test. From what I can see, DJI is running pretty damn efficient.

Interesting - Efficiency is the metric, that no one really talks about or advertises. "Power" doesn't mean much, if its at poor efficiency. Motor and gearing and control.

Like that TQ system for TREK -it was smaller, but inefficient, ran HOT. (but marketing won't tell you that)

I'd say, DJI and, now perhaps Maxon, has everyone beat, on efficiency. Efficiency is a most critical variable, all the way around, and you've got to take it all into account: motor efficiency, gear efficiency, and controller efficiency subtracts from actual power you get at the wheel.

Yes I would agree with this. As they say Power is nothing without control, that’s were DJI have nailed it. The frame is for from evolutionary, but it just works so well as a total package the new updates talked about in Robs excellent video have moved it on even further. To me the AMflow made other very expensive new bikes feel like they had launched a Beta version in some areas.

 

[Account Deleted]

These are really just tire efficiency tests . Pretty pointless without control tires. Apparently the Magic Mary rolls slow on the rear, who knew?

Nah, not "just".

 

[Powerslider]

I’m more enthusiastic about the DJI motor than Amflow. Actually I think the majority of Amflow fanboism is really DJI motor fandom. The word is Amflow was only created to showcase the DJI motor… and people are acting excited about Amflow as a brand? I predict people will wake up and realize Amflow is just a Chinese economy bike company as soon as legacy bike companies start selling DJI-powered bikes.

 

[Account Deleted]

I’m more enthusiastic about the DJI motor than Amflow. Actually I think the majority of Amflow fanboism is really DJI motor fandom.

Totally agree. In a year there will be a bunch of bikes much better than the Amflow with the Avinox motor. Assuming it proves reliable it'll get picked up by big brands. The Avinox may even not be a rattly-motor lottery by then. For ebike $$$ outlay that's too short of a longevity for me. Cashed up people will feel differently, I'm sure. Resale of ebikes in Brisbane is fuckin terrible these days. I need a 3-5 year bike this time.

 

[Account Deleted]

I'd say, DJI and, now perhaps Maxon, has everyone beat, on efficiency. Efficiency is a most critical variable, all the way around, and you've got to take it all into account: motor efficiency, gear efficiency, and controller efficiency subtracts from actual power you get at the wheel.

Wow, it's such a massive different in efficiency vs Bosch, huh?
Real world comparison, 4% over a full battery. It's a win, but It's only a small factor when choosing a bike. It's an evolutionary-sized improvement, not revolutionary.

 

[Citylad77]

I’m more enthusiastic about the DJI motor than Amflow. Actually I think the majority of Amflow fanboism is really DJI motor fandom. The word is Amflow was only created to showcase the DJI motor… and people are acting excited about Amflow as a brand? I predict people will wake up and realize Amflow is just a Chinese economy bike company as soon as legacy bike companies start selling DJI-powered bikes.

Yeah, there is nothing revolutionary about the AMflow frame, set up etc. But it just works so well with the DJI Motor and Battery.

 

[Hob Nob]

And, to publicly argue with myself, 2025 Santa Cruz Vala Review | Conventional Looks, Class-Leading Performance

The Vala, with it's new 600Wh Bosch, doesn't get close:
View attachment 165940

Again, that's in Turbo. But, even the old e160 killed it with same Wh.

These numbers are whack.

I can’t even get remotely close to these Bosch numbers, and I’m a pretty fit 80kg human, in fact one of my 60kg whippet riding friends (who is a 5w/kg beast) can’t even get close to that sort of elevation in Turbo.

Ive been riding an 800w Gen5 Bosch (100nm update) and struggle to get 1700m of vert in Turbo, and for the last few weeks I’ve been riding an Unno Mith with the 800w Avinox battery & that’s getting within a few % of the Bosch.

In fact a TQ HPR50 with a 360 battery doing nearly 1600m vert In Turbo? I’m not sure that motor / battery can do that in any mode

 

[Account Deleted]

These numbers are whack.

I can’t even get remotely close to these Bosch numbers, and I’m a pretty fit 80kg human, in fact one of my 60kg whippet riding friends (who is a 5w/kg beast) can’t even get close to that sort of elevation in Turbo.

Ive been riding an 800w Gen5 Bosch (100nm update) and struggle to get 1700m of vert in Turbo, and for the last few weeks I’ve been riding an Unno Mith with the 800w Avinox battery & that’s getting within a few % of the Bosch.

In fact a TQ HPR50 with a 360 battery doing nearly 1600m vert In Turbo? I’m not sure that motor / battery can do that in any mode

I'm pretty sure the goal is a general comparison of the same-rider same-trail between the different bikes; and with stock tires. I don't think It's meant to apply to your specific trails/tires/use case.

Also looks like they use the same Wahoo. Could report very different to whatever you're using. But again, I think the goal is to compare bikes they review rather than to tell you how much elevation you'll get.