Shimano 2nd Generation Batteries

[Spiff]

Recently Shimano has announced new 2nd Generation batteries for their EP801 motor, and it was raised the question whether they are compatible with older E8000 motor. So I searched the Shimano documents and these are my findings:

This is the summary of the current line of batteries, including the new ones:

BATTERY | SHIMANO BIKE-EU | SHIMANO BIKE-EU

To Build Closer Relationships between People, Nature, and Bicycles. We believe in the power of cycling to create a better world as we move forward. We inspire all people to enjoy our products in their everyday lives and where they take them.

bike.shimano.com

The compatibility document is 2022-2023_Compatibility_v038_en.pdf:

2023-2024 SHIMANO Product Information Web

This document shows the battery compatibility in page C-511:

• Newer Batteries require new Battery Mount (for example, the new 630W external battery BT-EN604, requires new battery mount BM-EN600)
• Newer Batteries are ONLY compatible with newest motors DU-EP801 and DU-EP600,they are not compatible with older motors like DU-EP800 and of course, DU-E8000

2023 E-BIKE PRODUCT CATALOGUE Document (SM-2023_E-BIKE_CAT-000-ENG-GB.pdf) has very interesting information:

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/sm/2023_E-BIKE_CAT_GB/SM-2023_E-BIKE_CAT-000-ENG-GB.pdf

• Page 13 shows the Battery Life information and it states: " After 1,000 charges Holds at least 60% of initial capacity". It has to be noted that it does not states the " 80% charge after 500 cycles" that is included in older documents.
• Page 91 shows the specifications of the new 2nd Generation Batteries
• Page 95 shows the specifications of older 1st Generation Batteries

So summarizing:

• Newer 2nd Generation Batteries require new mount and are intended for the latest motors DU-EP801 and DU-EP600, and are not compatible with older motors.
• Shimano has removed in its documentation the statement where they warrant their batteries to hold 80% after 500 cycles, probably because it has caused too many warranty claims and has costed them too much money..

 

[AusE]

So another reason to ditch shimano, no backwards compatibility. They obviously know their 1st gen bt-8035 has issues but they continue to ignore it.

 

[Husky430]

Yeah Shitmano does it again, shafting loyal customers

 

[esselite]

What's wrong with them. Same mounting and bms is inside battery, so why it is incompatibile with ep800. What a greedy company.

 

[jimbob]

What's wrong with them. Same mounting and bms is inside battery, so why it is incompatibile with ep800. What a greedy company.



Yes, quite. It would have been so easy to have made them backwards compatible.

 

[Strindberg]

Does anyone know how much longer Shimano will sell Gen 1 batteries >>> BT-E8010 and BT-E8016 ?

My three BT-E8010s with 107 charges each, 3 years / 33,000 km
now only allow 46 to 53 km with Eco High in the flat valley along the River Rhine.

I ask me if I should still quickly buy new batteries which are just as bad...
and this just after a few weeks of use and zero warranty service from Shimano.
The 60% after 1000 cycles is bullshit pure.

( My Husqvarna GT2 is so good as travelbicycle, but not compatible with Gen2.
Anyway, my next will be a Riese & Müller Super Charger 750 Wh Dual with Bosch )

 

[rpurdie]

Does anyone know if the battery mounts for the new battery will fit on an older frame? I have a bike with E8035/E8000 but given the motor is broken and the batteries failing, I'm wondering if I can swap the system out for the newer motor and battery in due course?

 

[steve_sordy]

Does anyone know if the battery mounts for the new battery will fit on an older frame? I have a bike with E8035/E8000 but given the motor is broken and the batteries failing, I'm wondering if I can swap the system out for the newer motor and battery in due course?

I don't know about the mounts, but I'm pretty sure that the cabling is different e8000 vs EP8. It can be done though, there are conversion kits you can buy; I saw a reference to it on this Forum.

 

[rpurdie]

I don't know about the mounts, but I'm pretty sure that the cabling is different e8000 vs EP8. It can be done though, there are conversion kits you can buy; I saw a reference to it on this Forum.

Cabling on the e8000 can be changed or converted to what the EP800 needs and I'm guessing the same cabling works on the EP801. That bit is easier, it is the frame mounts that would make or break things for this new generation.

 

[Cristian Leandro]

Hello there, I bought by mistake a 2nd generation batteri e806 630 wh, for my GT Eforce, w/ ep800, the mount is the same, the new battery fit prefect, the computer starts, but then turn off, it doesn t read the battery.

Does any one knows if there is a way to make it works 2nd gen with ep 800? By software or any hack?

 

[SEBA]

Does anyone know if the battery mounts for the new battery will fit on an older frame? I have a bike with E8035/E8000 but given the motor is broken and the batteries failing, I'm wondering if I can swap the system out for the newer motor and battery in due course?

did you got answer ?

from the shimano documentation it seems that the battery mount attachement bolt are the same

 

[Cristian Leandro]

did you got answer ?

from the shimano documentation it seems that the battery mount attachement bolt are the same

the mount is the same, but the battery doesn t work

 

[Arseni]

I just realized Shimano has two 630Wh batteries that look and feel the same but have zero compatibility.
Wondering how many people got 8036 for EP801 or 806 for EP800 and had to deal with returns...

I get it, the new 10-step battery reading requires some new internals and overal battery management was crying for improvement. But I bet it would be super easy to make at least the old battery work with the new hardware and just use 5 steps of indication. Good for customers, good for environment, good for Shimano.

But huh - they decided to do what they did. Not only I'm not upgrading to EP801 because of that - I would not buy a shimano-driven bike in future.

#thanksshimano.

 

[w2ge]

Adding onto this thread (made a new post elsewhere)..

Anyone have any luck rebuilding a bt e8036 Shimano battery? I’d like to re-cell it and possibly go to less wattage as a backup secondary battery. I’m guessing the 630wh is 10s5p? I’m a newbie to battery pack building, but not to electronics.

I don’t know about the 10 step vs 5 step battery reading process I just read in post above.. is that needed step within the EP series motors board (my guess is yes) or in the BMS?

appreciate any help, tia

 

[jimbob]

Not that I've heard of I'm afraid, although I'd assume it's the same BMS as the 8035 and I think there are reports of those ot being able to be rebuilt as the BMS bricks itself once power from the batteries is removed during the rebuild.

There are a few batteries out there like that now, done in the name of 'safety' by the manufacturer.