Levo Gen 2 Power Loss When Battery Reaches ~20%

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi all, I found one older post about this issue and I was hoping there might be new information out there now.

When the battery on my 2016 Levo reaches approximately 20%, it cuts power to the motor. I’ve had this happen over two battery charge cycles. The first time it happened I got the battery down to about 21%, during the most recent charge cycle the battery cut out at about 26%.

The bike has just under 400 miles. The battery only has 16 charge cycles, yet reports 90% health. Mission control app reports no faults.

I’d love to hear what others have done as it pertains to exploring/correcting the issue.

Thanks so much all and be well!

Mark

 

[Mcharza]

Don't worry, it only goes to the safe mode and reduce the power

 

[KeithR]

When the battery on my 2016 Levo reaches approximately 20%, it cuts power to the motor. I’ve had this happen over two battery charge cycles. The first time it happened I got the battery down to about 21%, during the most recent charge cycle the battery cut out at about 26%.

What does it say in your Levo manual?

From my Levo SL manual:

Sounds much like what you're reporting.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

What does it say in your Levo manual?

From my Levo SL manual:

View attachment 40633
Sounds much like what you're reporting.

The power comptlelty shuts off on mine. Yesterday I was still at 26% 3 LEDS and zero power in any mode. It’s so frustrating given the limited capacity of the battery anyway - I have affectively lost 1/4 of its use.

Thanks,

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Don't worry, it only goes to the safe mode and reduce the power

For me it’s a complete power loss in any mode.

It’d be great if someone has learned how to rebuild these batteries, as I suspect it’s only one or two cells causing the issue.

Thanks,

 

[krisrayner]

Had a similar problem on my wife’s ‘17 Levo. Anything over eco and it would cut out when below 30% charge. There’s a software update for the batteries that fixes that as well as adding some tuning features. Have your dealer check the firmware version of the battery and motor. There’s some info on here from SpecializedRiderCare that has current firmware info, but it can be hard to find. I’m in SLO also and Arts has hooked me up on both of my Levo’s

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi, thanks so much for the info. I had planned on trying to have the batteries updated. When I spoke with Joey at Arts he made it sound like batteries weren’t updated often. My 2016 has 2018 firmware, so I can use the factory handlebar remote that I added.

What firmware do your batteries show after the update?

Thanks so much for the support

Be well,
Mark

 

[krisrayner]

This thread had some good firmware info. If you able to use the trail remote then you likely already have one of the newer versions.

Power smashed through the roof

Battery firmware X.22.3 in MC1.2 = X.16.3 in MC2.0 (replaced in August 2018) Battery firmware X.23.1 in MC1.2 = X.17.1 in MC2.0 (Current version - required to enable infinite tune) The reason for the difference between MC1.2 and 2.0 FW version numbers is that MC1.2 displays FW in decimal format...

www.emtbforums.com

Do you have the "Infini-tune"? WIth the old firmware I was unable to set max power separately for all 3 modes. With the newer version you can fully customize the modes.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi again, I’m not sure about infini-tune. In the Mission Control app there are sliders for each mode to select power ranges in the different modes.

I followed a YouTube video on installing the 2018 handlebar remote, which meant my motor firmware had to be updated to use the remote. It’s nice having the walk switch and to have the ability to change modes on the fly.

I’ve only had the bike since March, so I’m still learning.

Thanks so much for your replies



Mark

 

[krisrayner]

The firmware version on both my batteries (460wh and 504wh) are 4.17.1 and 2.17.1 Like what was in the post about firmware, it is displayed like X.17.1 where X depends on which battery you have. Make sure of which version of Mission Control your using, that will determine how the firware numbers are displayed.

Here's the excerpt-
Battery firmware X.22.3 in MC1.2 = X.16.3 in MC2.0 (replaced in August 2018)
Battery firmware X.23.1 in MC1.2 = X.17.1 in MC2.0 (Current version - required to enable infinite tune)

The reason for the difference between MC1.2 and 2.0 FW version numbers is that MC1.2 displays FW in decimal format and MC2.0 displays in hexidecimal. Completely understand that this is confusing - ultimately using MC2.0 (hexidecimal i.e X.17.1) is all that you need to trust.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi all, found out today that I have some cells out of balance (see pic). Such a bummer in that the battery only has 16 charge cycles.

Anyone have any tips on balancing/rebuilding the pack...?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[apac]

Hi all, found out today that I have some cells out of balance (see pic). Such a bummer in that the battery only has 16 charge cycles.

Anyone have any tips on balancing/rebuilding the pack...?

Thanks,

Mark

View attachment 40781

I told you this few days ago and I didn't need a computer to work it out. I think I deserve a prize!

4.12v high cell and 3.94v lowest cell is a huge difference. 0.200v. When it should be around 0.050 At the most.

 

[apac]

The battery has Warranty for this if it's less than two years old. That is a fault of the bms or just a bad cell. You should be given a new battery.
if the pack is older than two years you will need to remove the 4 cells in that parallel group ( assuming it's a 500wh pack) or however many make up the Amp hour of the pack. No good just taking one Cell out. It will be a PITA and very fiddly and possibly easy to damage the thin wires inside. Just getting the plastic box open could be a challenge. Realistically you need a new battery pack. The new cells will spot welding together with nickel strips or worst case scenario soldered which is not recommended as the heat needed on top of the cells can damage them in the process. Try and buy a used battery, they come up in nearly new condition for sale all the time.

 

[DreamensioN]

I'm assuming that software is dealer only? That's not something Joe Public can get hold of is it?

 

[SLOTownLevo]

I told you this few days ago and I didn't need a computer to work it out. I think I deserve a prize!

4.12v high cell and 3.94v lowest cell is a huge difference. 0.200v. When it should be around 0.050 At the most.

Hi, ya good call on the cell imbalance. Unfortunately, prizes have been discontinued to do constraints as it relates to the pandemic

I did find this video -
The video isn't much help regarding cell imbalance. I have been successful in the past rejuvenating a Ryobi style 18 volt battery that would no longer take a charge. I am wondering if I can open up the Levo battery and individually charge the low cells...?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[SLOTownLevo]

The battery has Warranty for this if it's less than two years old. That is a fault of the bms or just a bad cell. You should be given a new battery.
if the pack is older than two years you will need to remove the 4 cells in that parallel group ( assuming it's a 500wh pack) or however many make up the Amp hour of the pack. No good just taking one Cell out. It will be a PITA and very fiddly and possibly easy to damage the thin wires inside. Just getting the plastic box open could be a challenge. Realistically you need a new battery pack. The new cells will spot welding together with nickel strips or worst case scenario soldered which is not recommended as the heat needed on top of the cells can damage them in the process. Try and buy a used battery, they come up in nearly new condition for sale all the time.

The battery is from 2016. I have asked my LBS to look into a warranty replacement, although I recognize that's a long shot. It would be nice if the warranty was related to the charging cycles as opposed to just time.

I thankfully had purchased a used battery a month or so ago, so I am able to still happily ride. I am not finding any used batteries on the market e.g. Craigslist or eBay at the moment. At one point there seemed to be a lot around, so not sure what why the current scarcity.

I looked around for a professional company that could rebuild the battery and one stated that the proprietary nature of these types of batteries make it nearly impossible to rebuild

Thanks so much for your replies.

Mark

 

[SLOTownLevo]

I'm assuming that software is dealer only? That's not something Joe Public can get hold of is it?

Hi, yes it is dealer specific software. I took a picture with LBS permission of the screen when they were testing my battery. I wish their programming/softwar had a way to condition the battery to help keep this type of thing from happening. I have a drone that uses expensive batteries and their internal software (BMS) seems to do a pretty good job of keeping the batteries healthy.

Interestingly, the Mission Control App does not report an issue with the "NG" battery ?‍

Be well!

Mark

 

[apac]

If you do take the battery apart you could try charging up the group of cells that are low. Make sure you charge up the whole battery first to get all The cells to top voltage. You'll need a multimeter to test each cell. it could be that the bms has lost the ability to balance because the weaker cells have become out of range, but it could be that there is more internal resistance inside the lower state cells so once cycled again they will just go out of balance once more. Internal resistance occurs when cells get older and they lose the ability to give out the amount of amps needed. They also lose the ability to take on a full charge properly. It would not cost much to buy the replacement cells for that parallel group but you MUST make sure they are the exact same cells.
though I bet that once you are inside the shell of the pack it gets gooey and sticky with glue n tape and is just a nightmare to deal with. Trying to remove the cells from their spot welded nickel will be a nightmare. And be careful there could easily be sparks. You do not want to end up with Kentucky Fried Fingers (KFF) lol?

my advice is to get a replacement.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

If you do take the battery apart you could try charging up the group of cells that are low. Make sure you charge up the whole battery first to get all The cells to top voltage. You'll need a multimeter to test each cell. it could be that the bms has lost the ability to balance because the weaker cells have become out of range, but it could be that there is more internal resistance inside the lower state cells so once cycled again they will just go out of balance once more. Internal resistance occurs when cells get older and they lose the ability to give out the amount of amps needed. They also lose the ability to take on a full charge properly. It would not cost much to buy the replacement cells for that parallel group but you MUST make sure they are the exact same cells.
though I bet that once you are inside the shell of the pack it gets gooey and sticky with glue n tape and is just a nightmare to deal with. Trying to remove the cells from their spot welded nickel will be a nightmare. And be careful there could easily be sparks. You do not want to end up with Kentucky Fried Fingers (KFF) lol?

my advice is to get a replacement.

H again, I agree that it would likely be very fiddly to replace cells. I also thought the same in regards to recharging the low cells and that the bad cells may just drop down again after a cycle or two. I've been made aware that there was as an issue with batteries of my era and am hoping Specialized will work with me, as the second owner, on a discounted replacement battery (fingers/toes crossed).

I'll report back as to what happens.

Thanks!
Mark