Orbea rise mullet—without swapping shock

[ElRosen]

I ride an M10. My local shop swapped my 29 rear for a 27.5. I did no other modifications (did not swap for a longer coil shock). The bike rides great. The only problem is that the bb came down ½ inch. I’ve had some pedal strikes. It seems I have several options to address pedal strike.

One is to accept this. Two is go back to 29. Three is to swap my shock for coil/deeper travel. Four is to go with 150 Cranks (which will stop Pedal strikes). I’m thinking of going with option four but on another forum I was highly criticized for this because… Well I’m not sure why. But I was told this was stupid and I must swap shock.

Is there any reason that you have to swap the shock when you do a mullet conversion? Is shorter cranks sufficient? Basically I’m trying a mullet so it will be more playful. The stock 140 shock is fine for me and I don’t care to add more weight or expense.

What am I missing??

 

[cookie70]

It would be great if there was a modified yoke available for the rise.

Shorter cranks are a band-aid for the real issue, you have changed the geo of the bike. I couldnt get away with it here as would be smashing my motor into rock rolls (it already is quiet low).. I run mullet on other bikes but they have flipchips etc to accommodate the smaller wheel.

Maybe try the cranks see how you get along with them if the other issues dont concern you

 

[ElRosen]

It would be great if there was a modified yoke available for the rise.

Shorter cranks are a band-aid for the real issue, you have changed the geo of the bike. I couldnt get away with it here as would be smashing my motor into rock rolls (it already is quiet low).. I run mullet on other bikes but they have flipchips etc to accommodate the smaller wheel.

Maybe try the cranks see how you get along with them if the other issues dont concern you

I’m in the Bay Area. In the half dozen rides I’ve thus far taken I have caught my bb once in a steep chute with multiple 2 foot step down. Wasn’t a big deal—but Bay Area (where I live) isn’t super rocky.

Does a ½ inch BB drop have much of an effect? Assuming the geometry feels okay (I like the increase in slackness) are there any issues beside bb height?

 

[RustyIron]

on another forum I was highly criticized for this because… Well I’m not sure why. But I was told this was stupid and I must swap shock.

The people on that other forum are the dim bulbs. Everyone knows that all the smartest riders hang out here at eMTBForums. Not that I know anything, but here are some thoughts.

If you put in a longer shock that moves your rear tire downward, the instantaneous leverage ratio at the beginning of travel might give you harsh small bump compliance. You can sort of get an idea what I'm talking about by putting your bike in the stand, and removing the shock. Let the wheel go all the way down. Now push it upward with your hand. See how the force required to initiate movement changes? Maybe it won't matter, but it's something to think about.

One option is keeping the same shock and changing the lower link. I think it's Cascade Components who might be able to help. They specialize in Specialized, but it might be worth it to take a look.

Personally, I don't think that pedal strikes are something to be concerned about. LACK of pedal strikes is something to be concerned about. It means you're not riding rough enough trails.

 

[ElRosen]

Thanks rusty! I don’t understand the option you outlined (changing the lower link). Would this somehow raise the bb? If not, what is the purpose?

 

[RustyIron]

Thanks rusty! I don’t understand the option you outlined (changing the lower link). Would this somehow raise the bb? If not, what is the purpose?

Don't feel bad. I didn't understand what they were doing until I started looking into their product. The primary goal of those using their products is to increase the progressivity at the end of travel, while using the same shock. The shock travel remains the same, and the wheel travel is increased a little bit. The stance of the bike is a little taller, while the angle of the pivot remains the same. Initial response is the same, and it's stiffer at the end of travel. I don't know if it would be really worth it for you. You might be getting progressivity you don't want, and you might only get a few millimeters at the pedals.

 

[ElRosen]

Don't feel bad. I didn't understand what they were doing until I started looking into their product. The primary goal of those using their products is to increase the progressivity at the end of travel, while using the same shock. The shock travel remains the same, and the wheel travel is increased a little bit. The stance of the bike is a little taller, while the angle of the pivot remains the same. Initial response is the same, and it's stiffer at the end of travel. I don't know if it would be really worth it for you. You might be getting progressivity you don't want, and you might only get a few millimeters at the pedals.

Okay makes sense. How though does this differ from using shock tokens?

 

[Shjay]

You can also increase fork travel to 160mm this will also increase BB height slightly
I have run a 27.5 wheel in rear with 140mm rear shock has been good although had couple of pedal strikes on rocky trials that had to pedal up over rocks

 

[cookie70]

Can you easily modify the steps software for the wheel diameter? Having smaller wheel would throw out the speedo and assist would cut out at slower (real) speed?

 

[kenevonaive]

Rise is a do everything trail bike (turns on a dime)unless you have short legs which justify's a smaller rear wheel or a longer wheelbase 29er! Save your mula ride more!

 

[Interpaul]

I have Mulleted my Rise H15 and have left the shock as standard.

Fork has upgraded internal to 160mm and I put 155mm cranks on it. I love the Slack Geo the bike has now. On the off piste stuff I ride in the Tweed Valley have had almost no pedal strikes since replacing the 170mm cranks to 155mm.

When I was running 29 rear and 170 Cranks was getting loads of pedal strikes.

I don't care that I may have lost 1 mph off my top speed as I don't do 15 mph cycling uphill and I can still put the 29 wheel back on the bike if I am doing more XC stuff.

Didn't cost much to do, second hand 27.5 Hope rear wheel off Pinkbike and glued a magnet to the rotor, 155 cranks were €60 euros from Miranda.

Bike is far more agile and easy to turn in on steep trails and much easier to manual and pop (for me).

 

[kenevonaive]

Shimano motors have weak spindles,pedal strikes should be avoided as much as possible!

 

[Plummet]

Skinny flat pedals can save you another 5-10mm.

That said 336 - 12.5 mm making bb of 323.5 is top low imo.

I wouldn't mullet it. The type of bike it is it wouldn't really benefit that much from mullet action.

 

[RiseCm10]

I have Mulleted my Rise H15 and have left the shock as standard.

Fork has upgraded internal to 160mm and I put 155mm cranks on it. I love the Slack Geo the bike has now. On the off piste stuff I ride in the Tweed Valley have had almost no pedal strikes since replacing the 170mm cranks to 155mm.

When I was running 29 rear and 170 Cranks was getting loads of pedal strikes.

I don't care that I may have lost 1 mph off my top speed as I don't do 15 mph cycling uphill and I can still put the 29 wheel back on the bike if I am doing more XC stuff.

Didn't cost much to do, second hand 27.5 Hope rear wheel off Pinkbike and glued a magnet to the rotor, 155 cranks were €60 euros from Miranda.

Bike is far more agile and easy to turn in on steep trails and much easier to manual and pop (for me).

I have always been intrigued by the mullet setup and decided to shove a 27.5 wheel on the rear of the rise with no other modifications. Holy crap it has transformed the bike. So much more nimble, agile playful and better balanced. Can be pushed harder.

For anyone on the fence just give it a go. You'll love it.

 

[lockin]

Mine is Mullet from start so I sold factory wheels without ride on 29' set. I also change fork to 150 yari/lyrik and crank arms to 165 and it rides great.

 

[LeeS69]

I have always been intrigued by the mullet setup and decided to shove a 27.5 wheel on the rear of the rise with no other modifications. Holy crap it has transformed the bike. So much more nimble, agile playful and better balanced. Can be pushed harder.

For anyone on the fence just give it a go. You'll love it.

Baffles me what the difference is? The contact patch is in exactly the same place, lose BB height (bad) and contact patch size (bad) but make the bike slacker (choice)... So is it purely the slackness that makes it feel "better"?? Oh plus the possible slight weight saving on the rear (weight is always good)...

 

[ebsocalmtb]

Baffles me what the difference is? The contact patch is in exactly the same place, lose BB height (bad) and contact patch size (bad) but make the bike slacker (choice)... So is it purely the slackness that makes it feel "better"?? Oh plus the possible slight weight saving on the rear (weight is always good)...

It has more to do with the gyroscopic effect delta of the larger front wheel vs smaller rear which seems to make it easier to initiate a rotation of the bike. This obviously helps knifing corners and bringing the rear end around. Sometimes, 29rs can feel so locked in that it can feel like the back end is pushing the front end. This is why loading up the front and weight in front can be so beneficial and with some frames, required.

Combine that with more leg clearance and an offset/different bottom bracket drop front to rear, and that's where the majority of the difference in feel is coming from. I too am running mine with a mullet setup, and I prefer it. I tried using the stock shock, the stock shock with an offset bushing turned around (making the eye-to-eye longer) and now with an 8.5x2.5 shock with 1 offset bushing. While running the bike as a mullet with the stock shock was good... the longer shock, which gets closer to correcting the geo is a better handling bike overall.

Let's put it this way, my rise with this setup is so good that riding my buddies transition repeater was not a significant upgrade to my rise. Good news for me, I don't mind keeping my money and riding my rise for another year +.

 

[squeegee]

Baffles me what the difference is? The contact patch is in exactly the same place, lose BB height (bad) and contact patch size (bad) but make the bike slacker (choice)... So is it purely the slackness that makes it feel "better"?? Oh plus the possible slight weight saving on the rear (weight is always good)...

When you properly mullet a Rise you do not get BB loss that is appreciable. Contact patch is a personal preference, no one can really say which is better except for their own personal riding preferences. I think weight has little to do with the reason for mullet as is only slight weight change.

So slacker yes, about 64 degrees HTA when fitted with a longer shock/offset bushing, 160MM fork + 275 rear wheel. The main benefits are a more descending oriented geometry and an increase of 22mm of rear wheel travel. Adds up to a bike that rides more enduro oriented than trail. The extra wheel travel and geo is exactly what some want, and to others not, all depends on the type of riding you like and your riding style.

I'll just say personally I didn't like the Rise in stock form because of the short travel. I also do not like to ride pure 29ers. At 5'9" I'm not a big guy and the smaller rear wheel makes maneuvering corners and in general quicker for me. If I were 6'2" I'm sure I'd feel differently about 29ers.

To me if you are a short guy and don't believe in "mullet", you really ought to be on a pure 275 wheeled bike. Not sure why the bike industry thinks a 29er is good for short people but seems to be what they are pushing these days, what's next 32" wheels? Maybe if you're Lebron James. Bikes come in sizes to fit body size, why not wheels too?

 

[Interpaul]

When you properly mullet a Rise you do not get BB loss that is appreciable. Contact patch is a personal preference, no one can really say which is better except for their own personal riding preferences. I think weight has little to do with the reason for mullet as is only slight weight change.

So slacker yes, about 64 degrees HTA when fitted with a longer shock/offset bushing, 160MM fork + 275 rear wheel. The main benefits are a more descending oriented geometry and an increase of 22mm of rear wheel travel. Adds up to a bike that rides more enduro oriented than trail. The extra wheel travel and geo is exactly what some want, and to others not, all depends on the type of riding you like and your riding style.

I'll just say personally I didn't like the Rise in stock form because of the short travel. I also do not like to ride pure 29ers. At 5'9" I'm not a big guy and the smaller rear wheel makes maneuvering corners and in general quicker for me. If I were 6'2" I'm sure I'd feel differently about 29ers.

To me if you are a short guy and don't believe in "mullet", you really ought to be on a pure 275 wheeled bike. Not sure why the bike industry thinks a 29er is good for short people but seems to be what they are pushing these days, what's next 32" wheels? Maybe if you're Lebron James. Bikes come in sizes to fit body size, why not wheels too?

So I am pretty convinced by the Mullet set up. I am 6'1" but prefer the slacker head angles esp on steeper trails.

What do I need to to set this up properly as you have described as I just stuck a 27.5 and shorter cranks on. What offset bushings and size of shock would I need?

Cheers.

 

[squeegee]

it's a bit more complicated than what you describe but basics are:

1. 275 rear wheel
2. 216 x 63 mm shock (8.5 x 2.5 same thing) DVO Topaz air, RS Monarch air, FOX DHX2 or Ohlins TTX for coil known to work.
3. Offset bushing set for Rise from www.offsetbushings.com, sold as set but you only need one in either shock eyelet
4. 160 mm fork
5. DU bushing press, i.e. abbey tools, rockshock, you can find cheap on Amazon
6. 155/160mm cranks if you feel is necessary after completing the above

Lots of videos out there but the best resource I found is here Orbea Rise Mullet conversion in four steps - shredlines

Forget the part about putting the DU bushings in the freezer to fit and just get the press mentioned above.

It may sound complicated but it's really not if you want what you want.

I use DVO topaz, 160mm XT cranks, Fox 36 160mm

 

[ebsocalmtb]

which offset bushing you need requires you to know what shock you want to use. I have a dhx2, so i have the offset bushing in the yoke side of the shock. If I were to put it on the top tube side of the shock, the shoulders of the top eyelet area of the shock would contact the frame. That being said, this is not the same for all shocks. Some shocks have rebound adjusters that make putting the offset bushing on the yoke side a tougher clearance problem.

 

[LeeS69]

Change the shock, change the fork, change the wheel, change the tyres, change the geometry, make the bike totally different and then it's great! ......perhaps the rise wasn't for you really...

Oh and it's ace if you're 5'6" and really can't manage a 29er....

 

[LeeS69]

It has more to do with the gyroscopic effect delta of the larger front wheel vs smaller rear which seems to make it easier to initiate a rotation of the bike. This obviously helps knifing corners and bringing the rear end around. Sometimes, 29rs can feel so locked in that it can feel like the back end is pushing the front end. This is why loading up the front and weight in front can be so beneficial and with some frames, required.

Combine that with more leg clearance and an offset/different bottom bracket drop front to rear, and that's where the majority of the difference in feel is coming from. I too am running mine with a mullet setup, and I prefer it. I tried using the stock shock, the stock shock with an offset bushing turned around (making the eye-to-eye longer) and now with an 8.5x2.5 shock with 1 offset bushing. While running the bike as a mullet with the stock shock was good... the longer shock, which gets closer to correcting the geo is a better handling bike overall.

"gyroscopic effect delta"

How to let people know you aren't an engineer without saying you aren't an engineer....

"Combine that with more leg clearance"

"different bottom bracket drop front to rear"



It's a bit slacker, and you prefer that, just accept it... You wanted a slacker bike....??

 

[squeegee]

Change the shock, change the fork, change the wheel, change the tyres, change the geometry, make the bike totally different and then it's great! ......perhaps the rise wasn't for you really...

Oh and it's ace if you're 5'6" and really can't manage a 29er....

Yea perhaps not in stock form, that's the point

 

[RiseCm10]

Ok, going to back track on this a bit. Raced an enduro today and pedal strikes are unacceptable with the bb drop. Bad one today had me off which put and end to my race.

29 is going back on the rear and I’ll see if I can emulate the geo changes without the bb drop or buy a more enduro bike to start with.

Was handling great up till then tho!

 

[ebsocalmtb]

Ok, going to back track on this a bit. Raced an enduro today and pedal strikes are unacceptable with the bb drop. Bad one today had me off which put and end to my race.

29 is going back on the rear and I’ll see if I can emulate the geo changes without the bb drop or buy a more enduro bike to start with.

Was handling great up till then tho!

You just need to source an 216x63 rear shock and an offset bushing. You only lose about 4mm of bb height with that conversion.

 

[LeeS69]

Ok, going to back track on this a bit. Raced an enduro today and pedal strikes are unacceptable with the bb drop. Bad one today had me off which put and end to my race.

29 is going back on the rear and I’ll see if I can emulate the geo changes without the bb drop or buy a more enduro bike to start with.

Was handling great up till then tho!

Could you put a 160mm fork on to get the geometry - and actually raise the BB height in the process?

 

[ebsocalmtb]

Could you put a 160mm fork on to get the geometry - and actually raise the BB height in the process?

In my opinion, you need to do both in order to get the bb clearance that I would want. I put a 160mm fork, a 216 eye-to-eye shock with offset bushing and put 160mm cranks on mine. With all of those things done, the pedal strikes are no worse (maybe slightly better) then the stock bike with 170mm cranks.

 

[LeeS69]

In my opinion, you need to do both in order to get the bb clearance that I would want. I put a 160mm fork, a 216 eye-to-eye shock with offset bushing and put 160mm cranks on mine. With all of those things done, the pedal strikes are no worse (maybe slightly better) then the stock bike with 170mm cranks.

I'm on about not wasting your time with the "mullet" - as I bet 95% of what people feel is the geometry on a bike not designed with shorter chain stays.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I'm on about not wasting your time with the "mullet" - as I bet 95% of what people feel is the geometry on a bike not designed with shorter chain stays.

Depends on what you're after. I prefer a longer chainstay on a mullet setup then 29 if all else is equal. The offset bottom bracket drop front to rear of mullets, means to me that I don't need the assistance of a shorter chainstay to initiate manuals and weight transfer. In addition, a mullet setups willingness to initiate a corner/drift makes it so I am not wanting short chainstays.