OChain on a Bosch Gen4

[HeatproofGenie]

As the title says, will an OChain work on a Bosch Gen4 with Sram cranks? I think the OChain could be really good for emtbs; it will isolate the clutch to a degree and should help suspension action for most designs. OCHAIN MTB ACTIVE SPIDER PEDAL KICKBACK SOLUTION

I've got a '21 Trek Rail and it's quite good, certainly the Bosch Gen4 is hugely better than the E8000 systems I had on my past Commencals but I definitely get pedal kickback although it's not bad and on rocky descents the Bosch clutch makes quite a racket. Anyone play with an OChain on emtb yet?

 

[Doomanic]

I want some of what the ad copywriter was schmoking...


What a complete crock of new age shite!

 

[Doomanic]

As the title says, will an OChain work on a Bosch Gen4 with Sram cranks?

To answer this question; no, they don't offer a Bosch fitment.

 

[Mikerb]

As the title says, will an OChain work on a Bosch Gen4 with Sram cranks? I think the OChain could be really good for emtbs; it will isolate the clutch to a degree and should help suspension action for most designs. OCHAIN MTB ACTIVE SPIDER PEDAL KICKBACK SOLUTION

I've got a '21 Trek Rail and it's quite good, certainly the Bosch Gen4 is hugely better than the E8000 systems I had on my past Commencals but I definitely get pedal kickback although it's not bad and on rocky descents the Bosch clutch makes quite a racket. Anyone play with an OChain on emtb yet?

looks like a good question to put to OCHAIN themselves

 

[steve_sordy]

I would have referred a description of how it works and what it is supposed to do, rather than all that feelgood crap from the art director.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I would have referred a description of how it works and what it is supposed to do, rather than all that feelgood crap from the art director.

"Your Transmission is naturally engaged by Ochain into an instinctive action, suddenly revealing the universal pedalling mood"

What more could you possibly want Steve ? Did you even watch it ! ?

 

[steve_sordy]

"Your Transmission is naturally engaged by Ochain into an instinctive action, suddenly revealing the universal pedalling mood"

What more could you possibly want Steve ? Did you even watch it ! ?

Yes I did watch it, time I will never get back!

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Yes, I'll reach out to OChain.

Lol on their ad writing, however these things are on many pros in both DH and EWS bikes and they are talking them up. So there's that.

The main thing though for an emtb is that anything that can isolate the clutch same would be a huge winner.

 

[B1rdie]

I want some of what the ad copywriter was schmoking...


What a complete crock of new age shite!

The sound track says it all
“Estamos todos borrachos”
Does it need translation?

 

[Mikerb]

Its obviously some form of clutch and since it is adjustable it is not a simle sprag type bearing.........they dont go into the design of it from what I can see. I see no reason why it should not work with a motor and may provide the benefit of the torque sensor not being activated by the pedal kick unless the motor software already prevents the torque sensor activating if the cadence is effectively zero. In that case it would have no effect on the motor other than perhaps reducing shock through the crankshaft. @Bearing Man is better placed to comment I would think.

 

[Mikerb]

I would have referred a description of how it works and what it is supposed to do, rather than all that feelgood crap from the art director.

It separates the crank arms from the chainwheel with a clutch so that chainwheel rotation ( kick) via the chain caused by the compression of the rear suspension does not rotate the crank arm.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It separates the crank arms from the chainwheel with a clutch so that chainwheel rotation ( kick) via the chain caused by the compression of the rear suspension does not rotate the crank arm.

That's exactly what they already said in the video : "Your Transmission is naturally engaged by Ochain into an instinctive action, suddenly revealing the universal pedalling mood"

Doesn't anyone watch the video ?

 

[Gary]

The freewheel in your EBike motors crank already pretty much does the exact same thing an O-chain does. And contrary to Dom's thoughts this does actually make fairly noticeable a difference to how your bike's suspension performs and how the bike rides. So if you haven't already noticed these benefits on your EBike... Well... you're unlikely to notice until you've listened to the marketing, spent £300 on the product and then no doubt it'll be so good you'll feel compelled to harp on about it to everyone.
Ie. The Placebo effect but not actually placebo in function.

 

[Doomanic]

And contrary to Dom's thoughts this does actually make fairly noticeable a difference to how your bike's suspension performs and how the bike rides.

My comment was referring to the video, not the product.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The freewheel in your EBike motors crank already pretty much does the exact same thing an O-chain does. And contrary to Dom's thoughts this does actually make fairly noticeable a difference to how your bike's suspension performs and how the bike rides. So if you haven't already noticed these benefits on your EBike... Well... you're unlikely to notice until you've listened to the marketing, spent £300 on the product and then no doubt it'll be so good you'll feel compelled to harp on about it to everyone.
Ie. The Placebo effect but not actually placebo in function.

PLUS .. some crank/chainring movement is already isolated from the cranks on an EMTB compared to an MTB.

Or "Your Transmission is naturally disengaged without Ochain into an instinctive none action like a castrated horny ram, suddenly revealing the universal lack of pedalling mood "

 

[Zimmerframe]

My comment was referring to the video, not the product.

Did you watch it ? I still think it was dubbed from another product ?

 

[Gary]

Sorry. Dom. I didn't watch the vid

 

[Gary]

Watched it now.
TBF to them.. How the fuck do you sell a new product who's main benefit is only really worthwhile to a competitive DH racer when there are no DH racers left?

Turns out you just talk pish (slowly) about flow and enjoyment.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Watched it now.
TBF to them.. How the fuck do you sell a new product who's main benefit is only really worthwhile to a competitive DH racer when there are no DH racers left?

Turns out you just talk pish (slowly) about flow and enjoyment.

That's where it's from .. it was @BAMBAMODA's sales pitch off his dating site.

 

[millemille]

I did a bit of research into these last year for a down hill bike (Amish, not electric) I was contemplating building.

They're similar in concept to a Dual Mass Flywheel, the spider is able to rotate in a very limited arc relative to the crank arm around the bottom bracket axle. There are elastomers that sit between the spider and crank arm to cushion the movement when the chain tension increases as the suspension compresses and the spider fully rotates and to return the spider to the unwound position when the chain tension decreases as the suspension extends.

They are sold in a variety of arcs of movement and to determine which one you need you measure how much angular movement you get of your pedals as the rear suspension goes through it's full stroke and then select the one that has just a bit more rotation than the pedal movement.

But they only work when you're not pedalling, as soon as you pedal the torque generated by pedalling causes the spider to rotate to its limits and the system is then just a heavier version of a conventional chainset.

And you get a greater lag/crank rotation between putting effort into the pedals and drive at the rear wheel happening, akin to having a really really coarse freehub ratchet.

Unless you are using your bike as pure down hill machine and the motor is just there for an uplift I can't see the point...

 

[Gary]

Flow bro. Flow. ?

 

[HeatproofGenie]

I am interested in trying it as I like a quiet bike, honestly that's my biggest reason.

Biggest con is reduces pedal engagement in a pretty significant way.

Descents are definitely my focus ? but I do like a good technical climb of which we have many, many here in Colorado. If I can determine it will fit or if OChain comes out with one I'll likely get one to experiment with. Only money and not bad if it does what I want. Not sure I'd be willing to live with the lag in engagement but maybe so too.

Besides a lot of having fun on the bike is when that machine is dialed as it gives confidence and the Bosch clutch banging when you really get after it here in our chunk does not say dialed to me.

 

[Gary]

It won't eliminate that

 

[HeatproofGenie]

Certainly won't but I would bet it decreases it markedly.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Certainly won't but I would bet it decreases it markedly.

I don't think so ? Have you tried it with the chain removed ? I think it still rattles around the same.

Not sure I'd like a rubber ring between my cranks and the chainring on an emtb. We all get used to subconsciously adjusting crank force as we change gears for smooth changes, that would go, it would be like riding with wellies on full of jelly.

You'd also loose all the sensitivity to the torque sensor when you're feeding power in. It would build in the ring then release suddenly so you wouldn't have the control over power and acceleration you have now.

 

[Bearing Man]

Its obviously some form of clutch and since it is adjustable it is not a simle sprag type bearing.........they dont go into the design of it from what I can see. I see no reason why it should not work with a motor and may provide the benefit of the torque sensor not being activated by the pedal kick unless the motor software already prevents the torque sensor activating if the cadence is effectively zero. In that case it would have no effect on the motor other than perhaps reducing shock through the crankshaft. @Bearing Man is better placed to comment I would think.

Don't think this product would help the Bosch Gen 4 motor as the clutch system is fairly bullet proof, but Brose! Would be perfect for that motor.
If the motor is activated the sprag clutch bearing disconnects the drive from the pedals, so although it will push the bike forward a little, but won't kick the pedals.
not sure if this Ochain would stop the clacking noise either? I have basically narrowed this down to something like "backlash" in the small transfer gear cluster.

 

[Mikerb]

I don't think so ? Have you tried it with the chain removed ? I think it still rattles around the same.

Not sure I'd like a rubber ring between my cranks and the chainring on an emtb. We all get used to subconsciously adjusting crank force as we change gears for smooth changes, that would go, it would be like riding with wellies on full of jelly.

You'd also loose all the sensitivity to the torque sensor when you're feeding power in. It would build in the ring then release suddenly so you wouldn't have the control over power and acceleration you have now.

If the Bosch "rattle" bothers you buy a Whyte E180 RS!! I have never noticed any rattle on mine.........that said I dont get pedal kickback either! There has been previous discussion on the Bosch rattle and it is clear some bikes do not experience it........or at least the rider does not hear it. I think it has a lot to do with rear suspension design and shock set up.

 

[Doomanic]

I said the same Mike, but when I posted a video everyone was telling me that trail clatter was the Bosch rattle. I neither know nor care who was right in that case as the noise is the noise and mithering about it won't change it.

 

[NotSoSikMik]

If you look at what Williams Racing Products out of Australia has just released it is essentially the same as what a E-Bike already does. I have heard of people just zip tying the chain ring to a spoke to allow for constant driver train movement. Another plus is that you can shift gears while not pedaling.

 

[HeatproofGenie]

I did write OChain, here's what they said:
"
The Ochain for Bosh version will be out from December, our worldwide preview will be at the EICMA FIERA in Milan, for a very special Collaboration with an Italian new Ebike brand.
Best regards,

Enrico.
"

That said, taking the chain off as I believe Zimmer suggested above and doing a chainless descent is a cheap easy way to see if this has any true merit for use on whatever frame, e.g. Rail here. I'll have to try that soon. Just bring some pliers to pop the quick link off and then a bag to put the chain in. I'll report back after.