Companies that want to grow must excel in customer service. Sometimes you eat the cost. You shouldn’t always eat the cost, based on the situation, and the money involved but the goal is to secure your customer for life.
Need advice/help: New Turbo Levo delivered damaged - IBKBIKE (Spain) refusing to help
- Thread starter polbec
- Start date
Exactly why my approach differed on high margin loudspeakers that are relatively easy to ship vs extremely low margin displays that are more difficult to ship.
This further adds to my confusion, if you wrapped the bike yourself or LBS, how did you not see the marks before hand?
You could probably buy a second hand fox rhythm 36 for the price of the replacement CSU too.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
I think the OP had a different resolution in mind and is now annoyed. I can only speculate, but I'll assume he contacted IBKBIKE before wrapping the bike. I'm sure they gave him the, " we'll figure this out, put in a claim with the carrier, etc..." In his mind maybe was expecting them to replace just the fork and not the entire bike or refund.
Dumb idea. The vendor obviously knows the customer bought the same bike, and has submitted a damage claim on it. If they're on top of things they shouldn't even process the order for the second bike, but they sure as hell aren't going to authorize a return! If OP tries to ship it back without return authorization the shipment will be rejected and sent back. Now they'll have paid for two bikes and paid to ship one for no reason. Further, if someone tried this bullshit I'd see them as a bad actor and would blacklist them from ever doing business with us again. I've been there and done it.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
Agree, terrible idea… plus frame SNs won’t match order.
My speculation is less generous.
I disagree, this is a suggested response to the issue the shop have presented. By all means check with the shop first before doing it. Is it really realistic to expect the owner to rip off the wrap etc and send the whole bike back unnecessarily?
If the vendor truly authorized this as a resolution what's OP upset about?
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Sending a whole bike back and shipping out a whole new bike just seems inefficient. A fork doesn't cost that much and is way cheaper to ship.
I’ve been here in my industry. The challenge here is the purchase was for a bike. So there will usually be a reluctance to swap just a part of the purchase/bike.
Think about the logistics of the situation… Where will the vendor obtain the replacement fork? They almost definitely cannot take a standalone fork out of inventory for the swap. They would have to open up another bike box and borrow a fork from a virgin bike. This usually presents an issue because besides having dead stock while the new replacement fork becomes available for the donor; now that bike they stole the fork from becomes an open box unit that is less desirable to buyers. I know I’d rather not buy a new bike and discover the original fork has been used as a donor! This is why it’s usually seen as cleaner/more desirable to swap/warranty the entire item purchased. In my experience usually the end user finds this as an acceptable solution because they’re getting an entirely new item that they purchased instead of a replacement part of what they purchased. There’s nuance in these situations though. The supplier may let you use the damaged fork while they wait for a replacement fork to arrive from parts; then swap just the fork with the end user.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Yeah I can see the complications for sure. Someone is going to have to eat the cost of a new fork. Hopefully it's the shipper who damaged it.
I also live in the USA, and never worked for a global manufacturer. But I've got to chime in with the way we really do business. If an item arrives damaged, we contact the seller. They arrange for another to be sent. If they refuse, then we contact our credit card company, explain the situation, send documentation supporting our attempts to rectify the situation, and then the credit card company reverses the charges. Easy peasy.
We do NOT deal with the carrier, as we have no business with the carrier. The shipper has the contractual agreement with the shipper, not the recipient. Nor is the manufacturer responsible for damage. They might help out, in the interest of customer satisfaction, but their business agreement was with the retailer.
Do credit card comanies in France not support their customers?
We do NOT deal with the carrier, as we have no business with the carrier. The shipper has the contractual agreement with the shipper, not the recipient. Nor is the manufacturer responsible for damage. They might help out, in the interest of customer satisfaction, but their business agreement was with the retailer.
Do credit card comanies in France not support their customers?
your contract is with the seller, and the seller has contracted that courier, so seller is the responsible
full stop
Right, so let me get this straight. @polbec bought a Levo from IBK, it arrived with a scratched stanchion, they've spent two months getting nowhere, applied protective film (which IBK initially said was fine), and now IBK want the bike back in "perfect condition" without the film they previously approved?
That's not customer service, that's performance art.
The protective film thing is particularly brilliant. "Yes, apply the film, send us the invoice... actually no, remove all evidence you ever owned this bike and pretend none of this happened."
Look, damaged stanchions are proper annoying - I'd be fuming too. But honestly? Sand it smooth, ride it, and never buy from IBK again. @Robson already gave them the review they deserve, and now we've got two people saying they're terrible to deal with.
Sometimes the best revenge is just having a functioning bike while they're still arguing about packaging tape two months later.
Though I do love that they asked for the film invoice. "We need documentation of your mistake before we can properly ignore it."
That's not customer service, that's performance art.
The protective film thing is particularly brilliant. "Yes, apply the film, send us the invoice... actually no, remove all evidence you ever owned this bike and pretend none of this happened."
Look, damaged stanchions are proper annoying - I'd be fuming too. But honestly? Sand it smooth, ride it, and never buy from IBK again. @Robson already gave them the review they deserve, and now we've got two people saying they're terrible to deal with.
Sometimes the best revenge is just having a functioning bike while they're still arguing about packaging tape two months later.
Though I do love that they asked for the film invoice. "We need documentation of your mistake before we can properly ignore it."
- Thread starter
- #48
nécessaire fait et en cours ...
- Thread starter
- #49
ne vous inquiétez pas j'ai fait des recours absolument partout ou je pouvais ... , je suis triste pour IBKBike, car dans le fond ils ne sont responsable que par interim ... mais responsable quand même !! de plus ma commande est incomplète il me manque un lot de valve que je n'ai jamais reçu !!! et là pas d'infos ?
5XDude
New Member
Like Rustyiron above, I live in United States and purchased a bike that had a cracked AL wheel from Orbea. It also had scratches on the fork, but not on the stanchion. The bike was sent via Bikeflights and it was insured by the LBS through bikeflights. Therefore, the shipper in California contacted bikeflights and got me a percentage discount with the BikeFlights insurance warranty. The LBS also contacted Orbea and they sent me a new wheel directly from Spain . I think manufacturers and bike shops- AKA suppliers -are willing to do the right thing. But I agree with all the above, if the package is damaged, you should not receive it. Finally, if your bike is rideable, just enjoy it and realize you might lose a little bit on resale. Nothing in this world is perfect. Nice purchase. 
- Thread starter
- #51
PAs de soucis, effectivement il faut relativiser !! mais ce qui m'agace c'est que j'ai été patient , cool et poli ... et bien rien n'y fait !!! ma commande est incomplète , il me manque des obus ... en solde certes mais quand même ils pourraient me les envoyer !!! Bon weekendLike Rustyiron above, I live in United States and purchased a bike that had a cracked AL wheel from Orbea. It also had scratches on the fork, but not on the stanchion. The bike was sent via Bikeflights and it was insured by the LBS through bikeflights. Therefore, the shipper in California contacted bikeflights and got me a percentage discount with the BikeFlights insurance warranty. The LBS also contacted Orbea and they sent me a new wheel directly from Spain . I think manufacturers and bike shops- AKA suppliers -are willing to do the right thing. But I agree with all the above, if the package is damaged, you should not receive it. Finally, if your bike is rideable, just enjoy it and realize you might lose a little bit on resale. Nothing in this world is perfect. Nice purchase.
It is the same in Germany. If you did this reservations with shots of the packaging, you have to confront FEDEX because this is obvious a damage which occured in their responsibility.
I know IBK well they are a good Shop. If FED EX is not reacting, go and see your lawyer. in that Situation , FED Ex will Never Risk to go to Court for a 200€ damage with all the Proof you have in yor hands
Rod B.
E*POWAH Master
Polbec,
That totally blows receiving a new bike that has been damaged. Having been in a similar situation on occasion, I totally get your disapointment.
Sometimes you have to ask yourself, is it worth my time, effort and general headache inducing fraustration, trying to deal with a Seller who is making it difficult and costly to return a product.
If you would like to just deal with the situation yourself, you have several repair options.
Repair Option One: As others have rightly mentioned, your cheapest, quickest, and easiest option is to buy some black acrylic nail polish. Dab the polish into the scratch. Buff the polish so that it's flush with the stanchion. Bob's your uncle, ride your bike like you stole it. You will occasionally need to reapply the polish to the scratch, it will wear off with time.
Repair Option Two: You can buy a brand new Fox 36 Upper Stanchion for about $280. This option is your absolute best repair option and will make your damaged fork as good as new.
I would suggest contacting the Seller or shipping company and see if they would be willing to pay for a new upper stanchion or at least a portion of the replacement cost. This avoids the hassel of return for all parties involved and the damage to the fork is completely taken care of.
The process of replacing an upper stanchion can be easily done and is not difficult. However, it does requires tools and some mechanical skill. You will need to completely disassemble the damaged fork in order to swap stanchions, the air shaft, and fork damper. You will also need to swap the lower fork crown seal and install it on the new stanchion. Lastly, you will need to cut the steerer tube down to the correct length and install a new star nut. If you are not mechanically inclined, your local shop can easily perform the service for a small labor fee.
Fox 36, Upper Stanchion, Performance
Fox 36, Upper Stanchion, Factory Kashima
Downhillr
Active member
I’m a bit confused. If the shipping policy was followed as you say, why are you expecting the seller to do anything, wouldnt this policy indicate the damage liability lies with FedEx?
Downhillr
Active member
I’m not sure I follow the reasoning here. If I ordered an item (let’s say a wedding cake, chandelier, porcelain sink) from a vendor and you as the shipper picked up it up from that vendor in good condition and then you dropped and broke it during shipping/delivery you’d expect the vendor to replace the item, meanwhile you bear no respondinility?The responsibility for the damage may well be on the carrier but the end responsibility for correcting the damage lies with the supplier who may or may not get reimbursed for damage incurred during shipping. The supplier is the customer of the carrier and it should fall on the bike supplier to resolve the problem with their customer! After all FedEx can't fix or replace the bike. Anyone who buys a Specialized bike from an approved dealer of that brand is perfectly entitled to complain of a service problem to the manufacturer and if still not satisfied throw somearound!
P.S. Normally in the EU you can return items for a full refund without reason for up to 30 days after receipt but since, according to the OP, it was received 2 months ago, that option is no longer available. I have no idea what the legal situation is with regard to an on ongoing dispute of this nature beyond it being down to the supplier!
Downhillr
Active member
True story… several years ago we purchased an art sculpture item while in Kenya from a local shop supporting very poor local artists and their families. The shop was to ship item to us in USA, (via DHL) however when the well packaged trunk arrived it didn't weigh near enough to contain the Africa ebony sculpture and when opened there was a letter in Dutch I gad translated explaining Dutch customes had cut the sculpture in two since they couldn’t x-ray it for drugs! I had VISA stop payment and also emailed tge shop explaining I would re-order item and pay once I cleared things with carrier… to shorten the story I had to deal with Dutch gov’t (2 months and 2-3 levels of supervision) to finally get a check from them covering costs. VISA had a hold on payment to the shop during that time and released it after I cleared it (cashed Dutch gov’t check).
VISA did not refund me, nor did DHL, I gad to pursue the party (customs) since they opened trunk and sawed sculpture… we then reordered sculpture from Kenyan shop since a considerable share of sculpture price supported the local artist directly. Point being the vendor was not responsible for damage and VISA didn't just refund me.
Side story… my wife’s friends couldn’t believe I did all that, she said “he's like a pitbull that won’t let go”, lol’
- Thread starter
- #57
ok mais c'est pas le destinataire qui peut faire un recours ... uniquement l'expéditeur , donc IBKBike !!!
Joecrow
Active member
What do you expect me to do as a shipper that dropped a wedding cake, bake a new one for the vendors customer? My business business is shipping not baking! Of course as shipper I might have some responsibility, or not (if the wedding cake was not properly packaged or labeled fragile etc.) but any reimbursement is between me and the vendor. When someone wants me to ship something they become my customer and in normal circumstances my contract with the customer will limit my liability for loss or damage incurred during shipping (for DHL, from memory, it used €50,- standard unless the customer paid for additional insurance). What ever shipping arrangements were made in this case it was between between IBKBIKE and FedEx, nothing to do with the end customer, even if the vendor passed on the shipping costs to the customer. The customer has a contract with IBKBIKE not FedEX!
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Downhillr
Active member
Learn to bake or pay the cost of the cake…What do you expect me to do as a shipper that dropped a wedding cake, bake a new one for the vendors customer? My business business is shipping not baking! Of course as shipper I might have some responsibility, or not (if the wedding cake was not properly packaged or labeled fragile etc.) but any reimbursement is between me and the vendor. When someone wants me to ship something they become my customer and in normal circumstances my contract with the customer will limit my liability for loss or damage incurred during shipping (for DHL, from memory, it used €50,- standard unless the customer paid for additional insurance). What ever shipping arrangements were made in this case it was between between IBKBIKE and FedEx, nothing to do with the end customer, even if the vendor passed on the shipping costs to the customer. The customer has a contract with IBKBIKE not FedEX!
49 U.S. Code § 14706 - Liability of carriers under receipts and bills of lading
bmwpowere36m3
Member
Generally the shipper needs to initiate the damage claim because they are under "contract" with the carrier and not the end customer. Noting damage or refusing the item is the end customer's responsibility, but its still on the shop to deal with the carrier. Most sellers are going to claim the item was packaged accordingly and try to pass the claim onto the shipper.
What's funny, it most packages I get nowadays (UPS/Fedex/DHL/USPS)... rarely I have to sign. Even my last eMTB was delivered by my garage. With proper photos of the package, as delivered/dated, in place of delivery should be sufficient to make a claim. Then let the shipper/seller resolve it. If that fails, credit charge back... though I wouldn't have waited 2 months for resolution.
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