Massively complex question - should I buy EMTB and if so, which one?

[MateNako]

Well gentleman, and ladies - if there are any here
I know this question seems as trivial and beating a dead horse, but please bear with me and prepare for a small essay

--------------

I've become extremely unsure of my decision to buy an EMTB as I spent last year educating myself about EMTBs, what they offer and what would be the best choice for me and more I read the more unsure I become.

• First of all, I am an analog MTB rider - I've been for ages and I do enjoy it greatly.
• Second of all, if I would live in or near mountains I would not waste you time.
  I live by the sea with not much of an elevation.
• Thirdly, I do not have much if any experience with EMTB.

All these aspects I mention create my unsureness.
You see, spending circa 6k eur on a bike is a MASSIVE challange for my budget.

Currently I ride 150mm travel (f&r) 29er, with 465mm reach, 66 degree head angle and 74 degree seat tube angle.
On most trail rides and daily basis, it is "ok" but due to my weight, height, but most importantly not the best (to say at least) suspension I feel it is heavily limiting me on my local bike park, which I enjoy greatly.

Here is 1min video of one of the trails just so you get an idea -
Since there is not much elevation most people in this region rides EMTB as it allows them to do more runs/loops.
I can do 6-8 runs and I'm completely done, where some of my mates are doing double in same amount of time.

Obviously an EMTB was my first idea of an upgrade, and I prepared full google sheet breakdown with models/specs I fancy the most (screen shot attached) but more and more I dive into the subject I get more and more unsure.

My main issues/worries are the weight of EMTB and the power delivery.
I know the engine helps with the weight but at the same time I do not want to feel like I'm riding an off-road motorcycle.

So my second idea was choosing something equipped with Fazua or TQ motor but then Bosch presented SX and there is no info what bikes will have it.

--------------

So to sum it all up, should I not be worries about the weight and just get full power EMTB, or due to my liking of analog bike should I get something mid-powered. And if so, should I wait for SX, or should I hunt Focus JAM SL or Trek EXe?

Any insight of people with lots of experience would be massively appreciated.
Thank you

 

[Zimmerframe]

Everyone's going to have a different opinion !

You don't have the Kenevo SL on your list ? There were lots of places with these at 50% off which would give you a really capable bike, for not "stupid" money, which isn't too heavy compared to a Full Fat (normal motor) bike. You potentially wouldn't benefit from a FF bike on your terrain as the SL motor would be sufficient power wise.

But no, none of them feel like an off road motorcycle, even an FF bike has tiny power compared to a motorcycle.

 

[MateNako]

Everyone's going to have a different opinion !

You don't have the Kenevo SL on your list ? There were lots of places with these at 50% off which would give you a really capable bike, for not "stupid" money, which isn't too heavy compared to a Full Fat (normal motor) bike. You potentially wouldn't benefit from a FF bike on your terrain as the SL motor would be sufficient power wise.

But no, none of them feel like an off road motorcycle, even an FF bike has tiny power compared to a motorcycle.

to be fair, the motorcycle part was a bit of exaggeration
And regarding Kenevo I didn't know about the discounts they are doing right now. A new one must be coming soon
I do love Spec but not sure if 170mm and such small battery would be the way, maybe a Focus JAM SL with bit bigger batter and just tiny bit less travel would feel more playful?

 

[Plummet]

My advice. Go and test ride some bike. Ideally on your local trails and formulate an opinion.

I started of thinking mid power light weight to keep the bike closer to my meat bike weight. But then after testing I realized that there was more fun to be had uphill on a full power bike and more fun to be hand down hill on a big travel bike. I also realized that I would burn through batteries and needed large battery capacity and the ability to change out batteries during the day.

All that added up to a full fat full travel big battery 25kg monster. I have a 190mm travel Pole Voima with Bosch motor and 750wh removable battery and it is a thing of beauty and rediculousness.

So... Get out there and test. Hire some bikes if you need to and discover what you like and don't like.

Regarding weight a 25kg bike is a bigger fish to push around. It does work your upper body more. Its less nimble and harder to pop. You do have build upper body strength and physically muscle the bike around more. Since you have a motor going for more travel doesnt have a concequence for pedalling. So if you select a higher travel ebike it will be more capable than your current bike and give you more confidence.

 

[MateNako]

My advice. Go and test ride some bike. Ideally on your local trails and formulate an opinion.

I started of thinking mid power light weight to keep the bike closer to my meat bike weight. But then after testing I realized that there was more fun to be had uphill on a full power bike and more fun to be hand down hill on a big travel bike. I also realized that I would burn through batteries and needed large battery capacity and the ability to change out batteries during the day.

All that added up to a full fat full travel big battery 25kg monster. I have a 190mm travel Pole Voima with Bosch motor and 750wh removable battery and it is a thing of beauty and rediculousness.

So... Get out there and test. Hire some bikes if you need to and discover what you like and don't like.

Regarding weight a 25kg bike is a bigger fish to push around. It does work your upper body more. Its less nimble and harder to pop. You do have build upper body strength and physically muscle the bike around more. Since you have a motor going for more travel doesnt have a concequence for pedalling. So if you select a higher travel ebike it will be more capable than your current bike and give you more confidence.

Yeah, I think you are 100% right, I just need to test some bikes. There is no other way to do it.
I'll have to reach out to my LBS and just rider some.

 

[rzr]

If you like bike parks, maybe bike park orientated bike?
Torque ON
Kenevo (heavy)
Kenevo SL - lighter, but weak motor and battery
Meta Power SX (heavy as well)

there are some other 160-170mm travel ebikes on your list.

at the end, i'm super happy with my Levo (but it weights ~23kg, 170/165mm travel).
Some other alu ebikes weight 25-27kg, this could make big difference.

My friend has Kenevo SL, great bike, but she lacks full power at the end (and regrets the buy), but mainly because other ppl have full power emtbs.

la fenasosa road gap

www.youtube.com

 

[Plummet]

Yeah, I think you are 100% right, I just need to test some bikes. There is no other way to do it.
I'll have to reach out to my LBS and just rider some.

Yeah man, Hire some if you need to. If not available locally go for a holiday somewhere where you can test and ride on actual mtb trails. Only you can tell what you like best for you.... all us internet experts and say what we like. But that might not translate to what give you the most joy. Its a lot of cash to spend so its worthwhile formulating and optinion before you drop the cash.

My other bit of advice is buy the bike to suit the riding you most like to do.

Thats why I ended up with a 190mm monster. I really love the stupid technical black/double black scare ya shitless riding. So that is what I bought for a emtb. My mate who really loves smashing flow trails enduro racing and bike park trails got a trek rail and he loves that to bits. He looks at my bike a says too much travel... to wollowy,,, not for him. I look at his and go not enough travel, not slack enough wont handle the gnar as well. There is a lot of cross over in our riding and we are both having fun I hit the flow trails with him and he hits the tech with me. His bike is ideal for his joy and mine for mine...

 

[Dax]

KSL is a lot of fun to ride, the weight saving over a full fat e-bike more than makes up for the lower powered motor, downhill it’s one of the best bikes I’ve ridden, uphill it’s got enough power to drag you up fire roads, although it’s not as fun on steep technical climbs as a full fat.

 

[Nomad1]

I think in your case you really really need to ride some different emtbs both sl and full. There a good chance you'll end up rolling on both the analog and a new E and enjoy both!

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

@MateNako Get a full powered bike to do more runs as it will propel you uphill in no time, again and again! Lighter mid powered emtb have lower capacity batteries, so less range, and less runs!

Going downhill, a full fat can be advantageous over a light eMTB (more stability, feels more anchored and secure, allows you to go faster) and a lot of fun to ride on descents if you can tame the beast!

You've compiled quite a long list of brands and models. I'd suggest narrowing it down a bit. Shortlist the bikes that you have access to (nearby dealers), the ones you have test ridden, the ones that are still being sold (i noticed some 2020/2021 models in your list)

Most importantly, buy from a LBS. Avoid buying from online/internet retailers. Most of them are just into sales, and they seriously lack customer service or workmanship if something goes wrong or needs repair.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome
My advice is find out which brands an LBS near you deals with and start from there
After that get in as many test rides as you can
Happy Hunting

 

[Dave_B]

Speak to @VWsurfbum he is extremely good at making spreadsheets for this kind of thing……

 

[rzr]

looking at your trails, they are quite fast and no slow hairpins (czy innych agrafek ), so i don't see any problems with emtbs there.

the only problem (it's a bit harder) is with very windy/narrow/slow/technical trails like here:

.
the rest, a bit faster, no probs after few weekends

 

[lamerecycles]

Well gentleman, and ladies - if there are any here
I know this question seems as trivial and beating a dead horse, but please bear with me and prepare for a small essay

--------------

I've become extremely unsure of my decision to buy an EMTB as I spent last year educating myself about EMTBs, what they offer and what would be the best choice for me and more I read the more unsure I become.

• First of all, I am an analog MTB rider - I've been for ages and I do enjoy it greatly.
• Second of all, if I would live in or near mountains I would not waste you time.
  I live by the sea with not much of an elevation.
• Thirdly, I do not have much if any experience with EMTB.

All these aspects I mention create my unsureness.
You see, spending circa 6k eur on a bike is a MASSIVE challange for my budget.

Currently I ride 150mm travel (f&r) 29er, with 465mm reach, 66 degree head angle and 74 degree seat tube angle.
On most trail rides and daily basis, it is "ok" but due to my weight, height, but most importantly not the best (to say at least) suspension I feel it is heavily limiting me on my local bike park, which I enjoy greatly.

Here is 1min video of one of the trails just so you get an idea -
Since there is not much elevation most people in this region rides EMTB as it allows them to do more runs/loops.
I can do 6-8 runs and I'm completely done, where some of my mates are doing double in same amount of time.

Obviously an EMTB was my first idea of an upgrade, and I prepared full google sheet breakdown with models/specs I fancy the most (screen shot attached) but more and more I dive into the subject I get more and more unsure.

My main issues/worries are the weight of EMTB and the power delivery.
I know the engine helps with the weight but at the same time I do not want to feel like I'm riding an off-road motorcycle.

So my second idea was choosing something equipped with Fazua or TQ motor but then Bosch presented SX and there is no info what bikes will have it.

--------------

So to sum it all up, should I not be worries about the weight and just get full power EMTB, or due to my liking of analog bike should I get something mid-powered. And if so, should I wait for SX, or should I hunt Focus JAM SL or Trek EXe?

Any insight of people with lots of experience would be massively appreciated.
Thank you

View attachment 123546

Here's my completely biased advice as owner of LaMere Cycles:

1- Definitely get an eMTB, your volume of exercise will go way up as the eBike is so much more fun to ride, and more fun with bigger suspension and bigger tires, etc...
2- Make sure to get a speed tuned bike with the new Shimano EP801 from an OEM like LaMere Cycles that can remove the speed governor or set it up to 28mph. All the above bikes you're looking at, from the bike shop, will top out at 19mph which is plenty fast for most trails but super annoying much of the time when you just wanna go faster on the road to the trails or on the fast sections of trails but especially when hitting jumps as the heavier eBike needs more speed on jumps to clear them properly.

Check out some of our full carbon hand-built super eMTB bikes here:

Enduro

LaMere Cycles custom carbon bikes and eBikes online store

shop.lamerecycles.com

Thx! JP

 

[Tubby G]

You see, spending circa 6k eur on a bike is a MASSIVE challange for my budget.

EMTB’s also cost a fortune to maintain. Have you factored this into your budget? They chew through cassettes, chains, chain rings, brake pads etc. Fork & shocks need servicing more regularly as you’ll be doing twice the mileage. Tyres will also get replaced more regularly. They’ll be issues with your motor no matter what brand you choose, and expensive maintenance & servicing costs will follow for this. Leg powered mtb’s may be slower on the climbs but they’re far easier on your wallet!

 

[losgatosgtr]

Just get the Kenevo Expert and enjoy! Fantastic bike which can be run with any wheel size combo you wish. Big battery, Fantastic warranty and all at a generous discount. Get it and go ride…

 

[MateNako]

After quite some thought I limited my choices to these 4, as they are available in similar price range and specs.
Question that stays is which one to choose

Focus	JAM² 6.9	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 36 Factory	Shimano XT
Commencal	Meta Power SX (2022)	Shimano EP8	Fox 38 Performance	Shimano SLX
Canyon	Strive:ON CFR Underdog	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 38 Rhythm	Sram DB8
Propain	Ekano 2 AL	Shimano EP601	Rockshox Zeb Select+	Formula Cura 4

 

[VWsurfbum]

After quite some thought I limited my choices to these 4, as they are available in similar price range and specs.
Question that stays is which one to choose

Focus	JAM² 6.9	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 36 Factory	Shimano XT
Commencal	Meta Power SX (2022)	Shimano EP8	Fox 38 Performance	Shimano SLX
Canyon	Strive:ON CFR Underdog	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 38 Rhythm	Sram DB8
Propain	Ekano 2 AL	Shimano EP601	Rockshox Zeb Select+	Formula Cura 4

what one has the nicest colour?
Which one has the best local dealer?
Personally I like the look of the Focus, I dont like Commencal and Propains always seem to do something quirky, Canyons are great, a bit like buying a Golf, dull but good.

 

[Zimmerframe]

After quite some thought I limited my choices to these 4, as they are available in similar price range and specs.
Question that stays is which one to choose

Focus	JAM² 6.9	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 36 Factory	Shimano XT
Commencal	Meta Power SX (2022)	Shimano EP8	Fox 38 Performance	Shimano SLX
Canyon	Strive:ON CFR Underdog	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 38 Rhythm	Sram DB8
Propain	Ekano 2 AL	Shimano EP601	Rockshox Zeb Select+	Formula Cura 4

Personally, I'd cross the two Shimano bikes straight off the list. For longer term support, repairability, resale you'd only really want to go the Shimano route if it was a specific bike you really had to have - otherwise, there's just too many other good options out there.

I have a Jam2 6.9. It's a really good bike. Very capable, nice to ride, stable, predictable, nicely made. Can be a bit tricky getting the rear setup to be just how you like it.

Given your options, I'd go for the Canyon. It's a newer design and the Spec is generally good. I suspect it's a much quicker bike descending and will do everything else just as well. I did almost buy one as it seemed to offer everything you could want.

In the end fancied trying something entirely different though, because I wanted something which should do everything out of the box, but something I could play with a bit down the line and something with a motor/battery I could repair/upgrade if I wanted so I also have an E-Mythique - which is presently my favourite bike as it does everything better than the Focus or the Kenevo.

 

[rzr]

Jam2 6.9 is more long travel trail bike, 150/160mm travel, 66HTa.

Strive:On on has 160/170mm (up to 180), HTa 63.5*with burly Fox38 (however Rhythm is most simple model), and it's a bit lighter.
summary:
striven is designed for more aggressive riding, and probably more durable than Jam2 6.9, has more travel and it's lighter.


however I can see that Ekano (180/190 mm front travel, 170 mm rear travel) is a heavy hitter! (like Meta Power SX 165/170mm travel)

 

[lamerecycles]

After quite some thought I limited my choices to these 4, as they are available in similar price range and specs.
Question that stays is which one to choose

Focus	JAM² 6.9	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 36 Factory	Shimano XT
Commencal	Meta Power SX (2022)	Shimano EP8	Fox 38 Performance	Shimano SLX
Canyon	Strive:ON CFR Underdog	Bosch CX Gen. 4	Fox 38 Rhythm	Sram DB8
Propain	Ekano 2 AL	Shimano EP601	Rockshox Zeb Select+	Formula Cura 4

These are all nice bikes, but none have the new EP801 Shimano speed motor, so you will be limited to 19mph which, after you get used to riding an eMTB, will drive you nuts. Buy a full carbon hand-built LaMere from us built up just the way you like with carbon hoops and instant engagement Onyx hubs!

 

[rzr]

new Torque:On has revised geo and bigger battery Torque:ON CF

 

[steve_sordy]

looking at your trails, they are quite fast and no slow hairpins (czy innych agrafek ), so i don't see any problems with emtbs there.

the only problem (it's a bit harder) is with very windy/narrow/slow/technical trails like here:

.
the rest, a bit faster, no probs after few weekends

Wow, there are more than few handlebar-snagging saplings that would have felt the benefit of my folding saw in the first video. (The only one I watched).

 

[Karkiler]

My choice will be probably Canyon Strive On. They made another price drop

 

[RiderOnTheStorm]

@MateNako, from your list Canyon gets my vote, better motorisation and better specs!

 

[dad_jokes_sc]

YT Decoy FTW

 

[2WheelsNot4]

Nowt with Shimano on it, which leaves only 2
Focus. Way better all round bits.

"Faster descending" I think I'd prefer a fox factory and just go a bit slower. Its a suss and this has good suss bits. Better by far than the Canyon
Other than the important suss bits, theres next to nothing in it. Yes the canyon is carbon, but these days I dont think thats the be all end all. Carbon originated in the racing game, for big teams who pretty much discard the bikes at the end of the season. I dont feel that really gives it the longevity of the average user.

 

[ilostmypassword]

I would buy what you can afford not on massive credit. Thats just me though

 

[militantmandy]

The weight saving over a full fat e-bike more than makes up for the lower powered motor

Great bike, but this is just not true. Any FF will absolutely murder a KSL uphill with way less effort.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Great bike, but this is just not true. Any FF will absolutely murder a KSL uphill with way less effort.

I don't think he's saying that. You're only reading one line of what he's said and therefore quoting/reading out of context ?

KSL is a lot of fun to ride, the weight saving over a full fat e-bike more than makes up for the lower powered motor, downhill it’s one of the best bikes I’ve ridden, uphill it’s got enough power to drag you up fire roads, although it’s not as fun on steep technical climbs as a full fat.

He means that the fun and capability downhill because of the weight saving, makes up for having a lower powered motor.

That's how I read it anyway and seen as he has both I'm pretty sure he knows his KSL in Turbo is more like Eco on his Kenevo.