Levo, when I stop pedaling, the motor doesn't for a bit

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
5,052
3,648
Weymouth
It is a matter of degree. There is always a short delay which tends to be slightly longer is modes with higher pedal assist settings. Acceleration setting greater than zero also has an impact. You learn to control it eith the brakes. Set acceleration to zero and see if that helps.
 

Stuart McLaren

New Member
May 25, 2020
10
5
Scotland
It is a matter of degree. There is always a short delay which tends to be slightly longer is modes with higher pedal assist settings. Acceleration setting greater than zero also has an impact. You learn to control it eith the brakes. Set acceleration to zero and see if that helps.
Hey, Thanks for the response.

I always have my acceleration response to zero, iv tried putting it to 100, then back etc, with no luck. I'm sure I could get used to it, however, I feel its slightly dangerous when I'm doing very technical trails.

the only thing I haven't tried is a factor reset of the TCU Display
 

salko

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Aug 29, 2019
1,170
784
SLO
I also get this few seconds delay occasionally on Levo. You should always have fingers on brakes when going through sketchy terrain, you just can't trust that motor will stop pulling when you stop pushing.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
5,052
3,648
Weymouth
Teaching my wife to ride her new emtb has reminded me of things I do automatically having ridden my emtb now for hundreds of miles. Using a high assist most on techy climbs requires you to control the motor power by dragging the rear brake. It also requires an even amount of rider torque input to the cranks. The same applies when you pull away from a stop....apply the power but also drag a brake. It becomes instinctive after a while.
 

salko

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Aug 29, 2019
1,170
784
SLO
The same applies when you pull away from a stop....apply the power but also drag a brake. It becomes instinctive after a while.
I do this only uphill when on very slippy terrain to prevent slip and clogging tire with mud.
 

KennyB

E*POWAH Master
Aug 25, 2019
826
560
Taunton
I understood the motor should run on for 0.2 secs, about 1/4 of a revolution of the chain ring.
 

Stuart McLaren

New Member
May 25, 2020
10
5
Scotland
Yes, I do agree, especially uphill, almost like a hill start in a car using the brake similar to the clutch, however, this is not how EMTBs should be, and mine never used to be like this.

I myself almost backpedaling to try to stop the motor and also dragging the brake, but I feel this is going to do damage to my cassette overtime. Anyway, I just feel this shouldn't be the case, and something must be wrong with the sensors as its well over the 0.2 seconds stated by specialized
 

speedkills

Member
May 17, 2020
230
221
Boulder, CO
I have much more than .2s of overrun as well sometimes. Luckily I am in the habit of covering my brakes and the brakes are far stronger than the motor so I can get it shut down quickly enough that it's not a showstopper for me, but it did catch me out a couple of times my first day riding it. I'm quite surprised by the whole thing really, I mean .2s is ages in electrical terms, how in the world can they not manage to get a signal back from the strain gauge and cut power to the motor in 50ms or less? I have no answers there, maybe they have really low sample rate or super slow chip in the computer? If anyone else has some guesses I'd be interested to hear them. Not that it would change anything, but fun to think about.
 

Stuart McLaren

New Member
May 25, 2020
10
5
Scotland
Ok, so an update on my overrun.

When I lift the back of the bike up, spin the pedal and take the pressure off, it continues for maybe a second or two. however, if I backpedal straight away, the motor disengages pretty quickly(possibly close to the normal .2s).

My cassette is clean and lubed, as is my chain. Any suggestions?
 

kntr

Active member
Sep 19, 2019
146
231
USA
I have my acceleration set at 100%. I love that it pedals for a sec after I stop pedaling. After you learn to use it, you can get through rooty and rocky sections without hitting your pedals. My daughter is 17 and a very good rider and said the same thing and I never told her about it. My buddy hates it and says it's unsafe. Everyone is different. Try it both ways and see what you think.

Another thing people can't agree on is clipless on ebikes. I like that I can pedal with one foot while dabbing with the other foot on techy sections. I clear sections that none of my Buddys can being clipped in. I can dab and move the bike to get through super rocky sections.

What Im getting at is everyone is different. Try everything and see what you like.

Ride on!

F90113C9-F728-480A-8926-343BFFC9102A_1_201_a.jpeg
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
5,052
3,648
Weymouth
Ok, so an update on my overrun.

When I lift the back of the bike up, spin the pedal and take the pressure off, it continues for maybe a second or two. however, if I backpedal straight away, the motor disengages pretty quickly(possibly close to the normal .2s).

My cassette is clean and lubed, as is my chain. Any suggestions?
Not sure that is a true test
 

Zimmerframe

MUPPET
Subscriber
Jun 12, 2019
12,021
16,904
Brittany, France
I think some of the motors come out of the factory with a hardware/software calibration error with the torque sensor. A few people have this and it's normally fixed with a motor swap. Some people adjust to the overrun and use it to their advantage once they're familiar (@Christian I think has it on one of his). Others understandably hate it and get the motor swapped.
 

Christian

PRIME TIME
Subscriber
Jan 1, 2019
1,579
2,264
Melbourne australia
I think some of the motors come out of the factory with a hardware/software calibration error with the torque sensor. A few people have this and it's normally fixed with a motor swap. Some people adjust to the overrun and use it to their advantage once they're familiar (@Christian I think has it on one of his). Others understandably hate it and get the motor swapped.
Yes I had it on my old one. Initially I loved the over run but the record was around 15 seconds so I thought best to swap it over. I did however bury that motor in river crossings several times and high pressure hosed it every ride so yeah could have been my fault.
 

speedkills

Member
May 17, 2020
230
221
Boulder, CO
I enjoy the overrun sometimes, hate it others. In a perfect world I could set it by mode, in turbo hill climbing mode, I would enjoy it, but it would be nice to have a mode that would absolutely turn it off as well. I mean, this motor was initially a power steering motor right? It's not like people turning their steering wheel would be cool with it continuing 1/4 turn after they stopped turning the wheel.
 

Rusty

E*POWAH BOSS
Jul 17, 2019
1,519
1,677
New Zealand
I will say, after living with the Levo and the Shimano powered Scott - the over-run on the Levo was a pain and a blessing. It was a pain when peddling hard out and trying to blast through nice, fast, fun trails but it was a blessing on gnarly uphills with step-ups and roots (as long as you were on the over-run when you hit the root.
 

Jeff McD

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2018
330
341
Kona, Hawaii
Having the same problem now with my 2020 S Works Levo. 10 months old, 1000 miles on the motor. Never did this in the beginning. Had the 2018 Levo and now this replaced it so I am quite used to the strong assist in Turbo. I've learned to manage it quite well and use it often on our tight, technical, very steep mountain trails with even steeper rocky step-ups where it is impossible to make it in trail, needing 100% assist for extended periods of time. I believe this has led to this problem, possibly secondary to overheating of motor? Never thought to check the motor temperature in the app unfortunately.
This is definitely not something one can get used to. I am a skilled rider and this bike is scary. It will suddenly shoot you off the trail in 100% assist at a moment when you don't want that and you cannot cover it quickly enough with the brake. Those who are suggesting that simply have not experienced what we are talking about. Yes I know I loved the normal, very brief run on initially which helped you over obstacles. This is not that. This is an abnormality of the torque sensor with unexpected intermittent accelerations to 100% assist that persists for 2-3 sec while riding as well as after stopping pedaling.
With my bike, the motor whine also got noticeably louder as this developed. Finally under extreme torque on very steep sections the motor is now making a tic tic tic tic sound, almost like a creaky crank arm except that the sound is not there under the same pressure with the motor turned off, only when the motor is on. Therefore it's not the crank arm which is properly torqued down anyway. And the tic sound disappears as soon as you let off the pedal pressure. This suggests some component is deteriorating (sprag clutch starting to disintegrate?) and sure as heck sounds like it is about to break.
LBS has a call into specialized but of course they are understaffed and taking about two or three weeks to get back because of the pandemic and will just have to wait. Thankfully the bike is still rideable although it shoots me off the trail multiple times on any three hour ride without warning. Has started to loop out several times on steep climbs which is difficult to control with a 47 pound bag ha ha. The date on my motor is April 2019. Hoping to get one of the 2020 motors in replacement. Really not happy to hear that some people are getting a 2019 motor in replacement. Keeping fingers crossed.
Forgot to add that it is now also beginning to do it in trial mode, just not as powerful as in Turbo. Even in Eco mode the assist will become suddenly variable as you're peddling along at a steady speed on the road. Trying to be thorough to help others who might be experiencing similar.
 

Lev-no

New Member
Oct 8, 2020
3
5
USA
The only gripe I have with the Brose s mag motor is that it has the same issue cheap ebay ebike kits have, they keep pushing after you clearly stopped pedaling. It's not a huge deal when you have the support level set below 40% but as you crank it up higher lets say 75% the bike charges forward after you stop pedaling, some times for up to a whole crank revolution. This can be super sketchy when I am in ridge line trails.

I wonder if Spesh could fix this with a software update such as (no crank user torque means STOP the motor output) but instead they seem to use a cadence sensor for deactivation in which can and does have a massive delay because it's biased on an old magnetic disk spinning around a sensor design.

thoughts?

I'm here to tell everyone that this issue has caused the biggest wreck in my biking career. I'll save the details as I'm wincing in pain typing this but I know 100% this problem of the bike charging forward after you stop pedaling is so freakin' dangerous. I was one of very first adopters of the levo and like everyone else i said it was kinda of cool how the power stayed on when you stopped pedaling...not cool at all! I'm surprised this isn't a bigger issue and my take on ebiking has changed forever.
 

Lev-no

New Member
Oct 8, 2020
3
5
USA
I have much more than .2s of overrun as well sometimes. Luckily I am in the habit of covering my brakes and the brakes are far stronger than the motor so I can get it shut down quickly enough that it's not a showstopper for me, but it did catch me out a couple of times my first day riding it. I'm quite surprised by the whole thing really, I mean .2s is ages in electrical terms, how in the world can they not manage to get a signal back from the strain gauge and cut power to the motor in 50ms or less? I have no answers there, maybe they have really low sample rate or super slow chip in the computer? If anyone else has some guesses I'd be interested to hear them. Not that it would change anything, but fun to think about.


Wait until the big off happens. How would you like it while roosting through a technical section if your dirtbike kept revving when you absolutely didn't want it to? How much time would you have to react when literally every inch counted? What would you do if it caused the biggest wreck of your life? This is the biggest elephant in the room for pedalec mountain bikes which are inherently dangeroius, and all I see here is people more worried about the way their bike looks rather than how it performs, or doesn't. As I stated before, still wincing from my injuries while typing, my outlook on e-biking, pedalec, and whether or not it belongs in the bicycle world has significantly changed. These are motorized vehicles plain and simple, and until this overrun issue is resolved, either by litigation, trends, or what have you, my outlook will remain the same.
 

Giggaz1

New Member
Oct 14, 2020
2
0
Australia
[IMG alt="Giggaz1"]https://www.emtbforums.com/community/data/avatars/m/12/12874.jpg?1602657030[/IMG]
Giggaz1
Hi
I live in Northern Victoria ,Australia.
I have a 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo Comp. I have had some issues with it since new , Creaky headset, pulsing off and on whilst riding at most speeds up to 25km, Red and third blue led flashing. Replacement power cable,and a few others .
I had my bike into LBS here and got a very ordinary response from him when trying to explain problems. After the new software update 2 weeks ago .
Went for a ride and when I got back the motor sounds like a coffee grinder.
I put the bike up on the workshop stand and spun the pedal.
I tried to upload a video of it not sure yet how to do it .it runs by itself at quite a fast speed. It ran for over 5 minutes on the worksop stand Peddling by itself from the motor
I notified Specialized about it then went for a ride 2 days later it flipped me off on a steep sharp switchback it took off on me .
Hurt me a bit. It is back at Specialized.
This is just a little warning to others displaying similar issues.
I might need some.e help in uploading the video its on my mobile. I will load it up as soon as I work out how too.

Cheers Russell
 

kntr

Active member
Sep 19, 2019
146
231
USA
My buddy had this same problem and did a reboot and now it doesn't do it anymore.
 

Giggaz1

New Member
Oct 14, 2020
2
0
Australia
The bike had just come back 2 weeks before from software update and 2 days before the massive 5 minute overrun/ and flipped me off it had been rebooted.
Also a reboot would not stop the grinding noise from the motor. The noise is only there when power is being used , no noise when pedalling without power! It also has had massive resistance for months after using motor then switch off and pedal.
If I stopped push bike backwards it made it pedal like normal till I put power on again it would have resistance. Like the clutch was not released.
 

1Nixxxo

Member
Nov 29, 2019
65
33
Russia
@Specialized Rider Care Hi.
Recently my Levo 2021 gained the ability to pedal itself without me touching the pedals )
It happens when the cadence is low and on level road when I’m slowly moving my feet off the pedals with pedaling slowly. Also I can switch assist modes and the motor is applying more or less torque. I’m not using Walk mode as you might have guessed.

Is it a normal behavior (never noticed it before)? Latest firmware, the Levo is cleaned and greased, all bearings in the freehub was checked that day, ODO is almost 950 km, no errors are shown, Shuttle mode is 0%.

Here’s a link on the video. I even had a longer ride without pedaling, but this one is the second longest. Please let me know if I should claim the warranty or it is just “normal”.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
5,052
3,648
Weymouth
No...it means the sprag bearing on the motor crankshaft is not disengaging. Levo overrunn is usually about half a pedal stroke.
 

1Nixxxo

Member
Nov 29, 2019
65
33
Russia
No...it means the sprag bearing on the motor crankshaft is not disengaging. Levo overrunn is usually about half a pedal stroke.
Precisely. On my previous Shimano e8000 in the Boost mode the overrun was max half a turn of the chainring.
It’s a kind a fun, but still worries me when it will break. Asked my friend mechanic to contact local Specialized representative for the warranty claim.
What upsets me is that I mostly rode it in Eco with low power settings, knowing it could break anytime, and it happened after 950 km ? Holy crap
 

rodomotion

Member
Sep 3, 2019
58
46
Chile
2019 levo here, 1650 km, is doing the same thing you all mentioned. One time I was climbing a very steep trail, and when I got to the top, flat part, I obviously pedaled with less force applied to the cranks, but the motor was applying full torque for about 2 or 3 seconds, scary for sure. you are thinking of stoping and the bike wants to run full speed. also happened something similar a couple of times when I left the bike on the ground, and the cranks moved a little, the bike wanted to go by itself.
I think is a thing from 1000 km and above.
 

Orb

Member
Jul 14, 2020
17
9
New Jersey, USA
So my 2021 Bulls E-Stream EVO AM 4 (Brose S-Mag motor) just started developing the same symptoms, with the motor not disengaging after pedaling stops. Has anyone had any success with a solution other than having the motor replaced? The BMC software does not offer an option to reduce/turn off the overrun settings.
 

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