As we have someone knowledgeable from Romania posting in the thread I thought I'd stick this here ... but mainly because reading this thread hurts my head and I think everyone needs a time out .. 
Just a rant on restrictions - Tired of non-involved regulators
- Thread starter ep8-rs
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I'm not a rocket scientist and I don't see mountain bikes as a mode of transportation. I ride my mountain bike because I like riding mountain bikes, not to get from one place to another. If I want to go someplace, I hop into my truck.
Someone needs to tell that bǐťċħ to get out of the middle of the street before she gets run over. At least she's not flailing around in the middle of the trail oblivious to the mountain bike riders.
Surely this one accommodates all tyre sizes, butt hell no! Trying to get that out of my mind…
Andyd1966
New Member
Personally I’m not that bothered. The bike has more then enough power to get me out and about where ever I go.
If I waned more would have bought an off road trials bike.
I love the pedal assist as it just makes mountain biking a bit more enjoyable.
If I waned more would have bought an off road trials bike.
I love the pedal assist as it just makes mountain biking a bit more enjoyable.
Just because most vehicles on the roads today can far exceed 100mph doesn't mean that you should drive them that quick, they are restricted by law not to exceed set limits set by regulatory bodies who have deemed what is what is not safe, to drive quicker than the limits states is both illegal and irresponsible, if speed tickles your pickle then do as myself and friends do by racing MotoX on private land, or as others have suggested, buy a Suron and take away the very essence of what constitutes the hobby / sport of cycling, or derestrict your emtb and void your warranty.
Bajakid
Member
Please don’t confuse a motorcycle and a bicycle. That’s our first problem. Because they have two wheels and a motor the undereducated like to call them “e-bikes”. In my area this is really killing the class 1 group. 2nd, I disagree, we must have limits on the mixed use trails. EBikes at 30mph really don’t have business around hikers. Most adults will control their behavior, however, it’s those that don’t that I find the restrictions necessary.
Mario Antony
Active member
You are imagining ebikes going uphill...
Now imagine, all bikes and ebikes descending. Some won't slow down when passing hikers some will...
It's not the speed limiting assistance, it's really lack of common sense
Bajakid
Member
No, I was speaking to e-bikes on the trails in general. Not downhill, anything is fast downhill. I am speaking to the flats, the blind corners, yes uphills. The entire trail.
You clearly think of a city as a pavement with a crowd of people, and you trying to avoid them at 35km/h. City is not that, city riding is streets that are full of traffic, and you either stay with the traffic (30 - 35km/h) or make everyone hate you because you're just a roadblock that everyone has to pass.
Marvin2Shoes
Member
Pedestrians are the only group likely to be injured by an e-mtb.
Look at how many pedestrians are killed by trucks, cars, motorcycles and walking into trains while texting on their phones...
Now what dill decided the way to reduce the fatalities was to speed-limit pedalecs? Does nobody see how moronic this is?
Kids on e-scooters with no helmet or protective gear (and often no shoes) will zip past e-mtbs effortlessly without gaining any useful exercise. If ever there was a form of transport that required speed-limiting it's that one. BTW to the truck guy... Transport is any device that can move a person from a to b. Just because you use a truck to get about doesn't mean you get to tell others not to use bicycles in this way or that they should buy a truck like you. Even more to the point would be that, as a truck user, you should not be able to restrict the speed of a bicycle to a quarter of the speed of your truck. This is the very definition of hypocrisy.
Look at how many pedestrians are killed by trucks, cars, motorcycles and walking into trains while texting on their phones...
Now what dill decided the way to reduce the fatalities was to speed-limit pedalecs? Does nobody see how moronic this is?
Kids on e-scooters with no helmet or protective gear (and often no shoes) will zip past e-mtbs effortlessly without gaining any useful exercise. If ever there was a form of transport that required speed-limiting it's that one. BTW to the truck guy... Transport is any device that can move a person from a to b. Just because you use a truck to get about doesn't mean you get to tell others not to use bicycles in this way or that they should buy a truck like you. Even more to the point would be that, as a truck user, you should not be able to restrict the speed of a bicycle to a quarter of the speed of your truck. This is the very definition of hypocrisy.
You clearly just don't understand. It is just not safe for any cyclist to ride at this speed in the traffic, period.
You can think whatever you want but any collision or fall at this speed among cars. truck, whatever as we all know cyclist tends to burn red light to go into some directions (tolerated not allowed) and it will be a plain drama.
Look around and ask any cyclist if in moderate to big city it is safe to already ride over there. Add 10-20 km/h more and ask again.
Time to react, time to initiate break, time to have your vehicule stopped is just not enough in traffic city from bike, ebike, car especially at higher speed to avoid 100% of crash. And on a mtb, you just don't have the traction/stability to stop as fast as a car neither a motorbike.
So the argument of saying you should go as fast as the other vehicle is just again, not safe at all.
Just have in mind that on asphalt road with speed you really need tons of protection to avoid loosing your skin and you really need to not cross a static object or another vehicle.
Remember that yes, in a Care Bears world, anyone could do anything, but by being crazy with such topic, someone could just kill you in traffic and who cares about the fault? If I kill you with my car because you did a top 50 km/h, burn a red light blabla, I still killed you, will feel responsible no matter what and will have to live with it.
NB: we already had last week one dead cyclist crushed by a truck from a dead angle, trial said he could not see him, cyclist was at fault to not respect road rules -> still he is dead now.
NB: more and more cities are now going towards the 30km/h max in town center etc so I guess one day we might all go towards 25km/h or use automated taxi
Joecrow
Active member
Further to the various posts on city riding, here in Munich we are blessed with a very bike friendly road system, lots of cycle paths, off the road adjacent to but mostly not seperated (no kerb) from the sidewalks and elsewhere bike lanes on the roads(which delivery vehicles use as parking spaces
). It may not be 100% but cycle path coverage is very very good. None the less riding at speed on the cycle paths can be very dangerous as pedestrians, particularly tourists, will often wander into them without realising bikes have right of way and 20-25 kmh seems to the norm for most cycle path traffic (all forms of bikes and e-scooters which are allowed). If you want to faster you can always use the street which many road racing bike riders do but will still be restricted to the fairly general 30 kmh speed limit for all vehicles.
All in all I would have to say that the 25 kmh motor assist restriction works really well without hindering or being hindered by other vehicles in this city!
). It may not be 100% but cycle path coverage is very very good. None the less riding at speed on the cycle paths can be very dangerous as pedestrians, particularly tourists, will often wander into them without realising bikes have right of way and 20-25 kmh seems to the norm for most cycle path traffic (all forms of bikes and e-scooters which are allowed). If you want to faster you can always use the street which many road racing bike riders do but will still be restricted to the fairly general 30 kmh speed limit for all vehicles.All in all I would have to say that the 25 kmh motor assist restriction works really well without hindering or being hindered by other vehicles in this city!
Old Codger
Member
Restricting E-bikes was a way to save us from a test, insurance and MOT.
Don’t stir up the politicians.
Don’t stir up the politicians.
Boo hoo. Please take this tissue to wipe your tears. I'm a mountain bike rider and I ride on trails. If your mom sends you out to pick up groceries for dinner on your bike, at least it gets you out of the house. Just remember to look both ways before crossing the street.
Bajakid
Member
Confidence is silent, insecurity is loud and rude.
Trek-Rail-eBike
Active member
I've just watched this too.
Makes sense really- DJI released a motor setup which clearly breaches the 'rules'
Marvin2Shoes
Member
No, you clearly don't understand that it isn't your right to tell others how they must ride a bicycle based on your obvious superiority as a motor vehicle driver.
Most fatalaties for cyclists occur by being struck from behind... quite often while stationary. Hardly fits with your worldview on bicycles being the cause of accidents does it?
I think the last thing anyone should be doing is asking an obvious motor vehicle advocate what it is cyclists should or should not be doing.
Same time to react as when driving a motor vehicle... your point is? Oh and it's 'brake'.
So you think a pedelec cant go over 25km/h safely but an e-scooter at twice the speed is obviously ok?
You will be just another motorist who blames the cyclist when it will likely be you hitting said cyclist from behind because you are
1. Adjusting your sound system,
2. Distracted by kids fighting in the back seat,
3. Texting on your phone,
Should I go on? But hey.... it's always those pesky cyclists fault!
Specify which road rules. If crushed due to blind spot in truck drivers vision that is so obviously the cyclist not respecting the 'stay visible to the mobile monstrosity driver' road rule. Victim blaming much?
And with such anti cyclist rhetoric let's all hope you aren't able to have a vote to deny cyclists their rights in that future cycling utopia.
Marvin2Shoes
Member
So nothing to say then, just belittling superior truck-driver banter?
I ride an e-mtb and a motorcycle every day. I see how people with your attitude treat cyclists of any description. Thanks for making your intentions so clear by finishing with a threat. I'd have expected no less from a car/truck driver.
Bajakid
Member
Thank you for posting this. Watching the video and hearing the noise of those motors, really makes me appreciate the Trek and the TQ. For me, I have just enough power in the first two settings to get up anything, I point at, very silently. I am in no way putting the riders of the bigger motors down, to each his own enjoyment. I will agree with the video, we need to have a limit “gentlemen’s rules”. As I too don’t want to be on my MTB trail and have to deal with motorcycles disguised as mountain bikes on the same trail. That will indeed ruin it for everyone soon enough.
Marvin2Shoes
Member
Agreed... as a pedalec road-only user with an open motorcycle licence I would just like to have the restriction lifted. When they apply speed restrictions to cars we'll be able to see real lowering of the carnage on our roads.
Bontee
Active member
To be fair lads (and lasses) the discussions we have lose a lot in translation when the rules on either side of the Atlantic differ so massively.
We in Britain want our ebikes classified as bicycles ,you guys in the US have completely different views on this.
I doubt we will agree on the right way forward since the “right way” is very different for us depending on where we live.
We in Britain want our ebikes classified as bicycles ,you guys in the US have completely different views on this.
I doubt we will agree on the right way forward since the “right way” is very different for us depending on where we live.
Marvin2Shoes
Member
And it seems Australia is closer to UK on this issue as we have 25km/h limiting on pedalecs, very few e-bikes and millions of unrestricted e-scooters.
We in the US want our ebikes classified as bicycles ,and they are, and up to 28mph....You guys in the UK have completely different views on this and think that 15mph is great!!
Old Codger
Member
In the U.K. we have a system of bridleways country wide on which motor vehicles are prohibited. An E-bike is a motor vehicle but because it is not self propelled and has been given an assisted speed limit we have a dispensation to ride on bridleways and shared use paths. Any overt plans to increase this will likely be opposed by ramblers who have a large presence and mums with prams, not to mention politicians who oppose any change. Bike parks would probably be ok but some are already becoming anti e-bike.
I would be happy with a 10 mph speed limit if it protected my freedom to ride where I do now. It’s not policed anyway.
edruid
Member
I think 15.5mph as the cap to use an ebike the same way with the same freedoms as an acoustic is a good deal, not compalaning. Really wish people like you would stop rocking the boat because honestly I just think your pushing a pendulum that's going to switng back and land us with tougher restrictions and vehicle tax
LeftItLancs
Active member
The UK government is cracking down on ebikes, police forces are seizing illegally modified bikes and or issuing penalty notices, etc. There are also consultations to allow higher powered bikes properly taxed insured etc, which will make it easier to police (if it can be) and no doubt to raise more revenue for government coffers.
The problem is, no matter what the restrictions are, there are people who will, completely, disregard any rules. Whether it is young people and antisocial riding and associated crime in urban areas or out on mixed trails or bridleways by adults who really should know better.
Is the 15.5 mph limit the 'sweet spot' on purpose built tracks for experienced riders, definitely not, but for mixed used trails and bridleways etc it is probably just about right.
The problem is, no matter what the restrictions are, there are people who will, completely, disregard any rules. Whether it is young people and antisocial riding and associated crime in urban areas or out on mixed trails or bridleways by adults who really should know better.
Is the 15.5 mph limit the 'sweet spot' on purpose built tracks for experienced riders, definitely not, but for mixed used trails and bridleways etc it is probably just about right.
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