I struggle to justify the price of EMTBs when this cost less….

Semi_Colon

Semi_Colon

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I love my Turbo Levo and big fan of e bikes, but my new Honda CRF 300 Rally costs £6,500 BRAMD NEW. When you look at the engineering and kit on the motorbike (ABS etc) , it does make e bikes look very expensive. And the motorbike will hold its price better. I admit I have insurance, tax and fuel to factor in on running costs for the motorbike..

Just had a week in the Pyrenees on the Honda which was epic. But promised my wife the motorbike will be sold after the trip. 🥲.

Can’t work out if it’s the Honda that’s amazing value for money, or the Speicialized that’s too expensive..

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Smart wife and I agree with her! Unfortunately, motor cycles or motor bikes are too much of limb or life losing type vehicles. And I used to own motor cycles too when I was in my 20's. Once you have a family you realize they need you alive and whole to be the bread winner and a father figure bringing up the children. Sad part of owning motor cycles is the people driving the cars that will kill you. Even for motor bikes they are not welcome on most trails. Stick with your E-bike . . . Example of a sad recent motor cycle mishap: https://parade.com/news/police-statement-treat-williams-death-motorcycle-accident
 
Semi_Colon said:
I love my Turbo Levo and big fan of e bikes, but my new Honda CRF 300 Rally costs £6,500 BRAMD NEW. When you look at the engineering and kit on the motorbike (ABS etc) , it does make e bikes look very expensive. And the motorbike will hold its price better. I admit I have insurance, tax and fuel to factor in on running costs for the motorbike..

Just had a week in the Pyrenees on the Honda which was epic. But promised my wife the motorbike will be sold after the trip. 🥲.

Can’t work out if it’s the Honda that’s amazing value for money, or the Speicialized that’s too expensive..

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As with all ebikes it's too expensive..however I'm assuming you knew the price before you bought it ..
As mountain biking is my main pastime the cost of the bike is a price worth paying in terms of the freedom & enjoyment it brings ...
 
My wife was an orthopaedic nurse and forbids me from from riding a motorcycle anymore. She’s seen to many bad results.

Similar to my old bike I had years ago. It was only a pub jumper and was a constant money pit. I’m embarrassed to say what this cost me.🫣.

IMG_6468.png

But now I only risk damaging myself on our local trails with an eMTB.🤔

(1949 Panhead, 101 hp evo retro engine, low sweeping bars, kick only. Optional ear pugs).
 
Semi_Colon said:
I love my Turbo Levo and big fan of e bikes, but my new Honda CRF 300 Rally costs £6,500 BRAMD NEW. When you look at the engineering and kit on the motorbike (ABS etc) , it does make e bikes look very expensive. And the motorbike will hold its price better. I admit I have insurance, tax and fuel to factor in on running costs for the motorbike..

Just had a week in the Pyrenees on the Honda which was epic. But promised my wife the motorbike will be sold after the trip. 🥲.

Can’t work out if it’s the Honda that’s amazing value for money, or the Speicialized that’s too expensive..

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You are not wrong. The price disparity is horrendous given the additional tech and material moto has in it.

The answer is supply and demand. The price of the bike is what you are willing to pay. Specialized are banking more margin than honda.

Its would be interesting to do a comparison over time. Moto cost to purchase is low but ongoing maintenance cost is high. Maybe moto runs lower margins to sell the bike then hits you in the wallet with servicing and rebuilds over time?
 
Stihldog said:
My wife was an orthopaedic nurse and forbids me from from riding a motorcycle anymore. She’s seen to many bad results.

Similar to my old bike I had years ago. It was only a pub jumper and was a constant money pit. I’m embarrassed to say what this cost me.🫣.

View attachment 119318

But now I only risk damaging myself on our local trails with an eMTB.🤔

(1949 Panhead, 101 hp evo retro engine, low sweeping bars, kick only. Optional ear pugs).
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Gotta love a Panhead 👌
 
Does anyone know what the production volumes are? Mass production reduces costs. I have never owned a motorbike, do they come in a range of sizes like mtbs do?
 
steve_sordy said:
Does anyone know what the production volumes are? Mass production reduces costs. I have never owned a motorbike, do they come in a range of sizes like mtbs do?
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Mine seemed to be a one-size-fits-all. So I tried to gain some weight and grow a beard …no success in either.
 
Honda probably have a huge production of the engines and fits them to a range of products.
Ditto forks, wheels, tyres - just like the e/mtb industry does!
 
I never noticed that option for Harley’s(old style). Maybe the bars. Mine had sweeping drag bars so maybe that helped. The seat was a small cushioned piece of leather that was fixed to the frame/fender. Rider only and not very comfortable.…at all.
 
steve_sordy said:
Does anyone know what the production volumes are? Mass production reduces costs. I have never owned a motorbike, do they come in a range of sizes like mtbs do?
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Honda have a turnover of $125 billion and Specialized have a turnover of half a billion. Way better economy of scale for Honda who've also been refining their motorbikes for getting on 80 years, decent off-road capable eBikes have been a thing for barely a decade.
Isn't the CRF300 an update of the (released in 2013ish CRF250?) So they've paid for developing some of the bike over a decade?

Specialized are seen as giants in cycling but compared to a mega corp like Honda...
 
I'm scared to think of how much earlier I could have retired if I never discovered motorbikes. Or how crazy it is to have 2 motorbikes parked in the shed with less k's on the clock than my 2 yo specialized.

In the nicest possible way, coming from someone who had a honda adv fetish before adv was a thing.....that crf is NOT a levo! Even this doesn't come close - at a price which makes an s works seem cheap.

IMG_4719.jpeg


And if we want to talk engineering equivalent - single pot brakes, brackets for brackets, the look but not the capability....how about. ;
IMG_4720.jpeg
 
Even in wife $ , an emtb is good value.

The last time she question my motorbike selection I had a KTM 640 adv, KTM 400, and a moto guzzi lemans.

When I was looking at adding my levo sl to the fleet, she commented on how much I was using the giant and how happy it made me.
 
Motorbikes are great value, but replacement parts or upgrades can cost a lot more as a %age of the bike than with MTB parts. Most motorbikers never seem to buy the upgrades or make changes MTBers do. MTBer will spend £70 on a better compound of tyre, a Motorbike will likely still have the stock tyre it came with. Motobikers will still use clunky looking and heavy brake levers and brakes, at best a rotor may be changed for a drilled on. MTB's will have floating, anodised, 'XT not Deore' etc.

At best Motorbikes get a louder exhaust and a new indicator and wing mirror to replace the ones they broke when it fell over at the petrol station ;)
 
STATO said:
Motorbikes are great value, but replacement parts or upgrades can cost a lot more as a %age of the bike than with MTB parts. Most motorbikers never seem to buy the upgrades or make changes MTBers do. MTBer will spend £70 on a better compound of tyre, a Motorbike will likely still have the stock tyre it came with. Motobikers will still use clunky looking and heavy brake levers and brakes, at best a rotor may be changed for a drilled on. MTB's will have floating, anodised, 'XT not Deore' etc.

At best Motorbikes get a louder exhaust and a new indicator and wing mirror to replace the ones they broke when it fell over at the petrol station ;)
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Tyres can wear out in 3k miles so that's 1 year for a lot of bikers . . then we fit the latest sticky multi compound rubber . .

Brakes usually need one finger to easily lock the wheel so no point changing anything there . .

Free-flow exhaust plus remap easily gives an extra 15bhp plus quickshifter for easy wheelies and seamless acceleration to 140+ mph . .

Suspension upgrade to suit; linear link plus new adjustable shock to optimise handling was an easy fit . .

It's a lot of bike for the money 😉
 
I think bikes are difficult to comprehend price wise. I know we complain about the prices, but ultimately it the component costs which are hard to fathom if you compare them to other things.

The difference is lower volumes and more time spent obtaining strength/longevity against weight. Which in the bike world is even more focussed than the Moto world, until you get to hige end competition and then Moto prices start feeling like crazy prices. @Pdoz summed it up earlier.

I always found Moto expensive on tyres. 200 miles and a day out and they're destroyed if you're in the fun zone. EMTB is way cheaper there.

For me the biggest difference is ability. On a Moto I was at one with the bike. (Except one time I wasn't and I've no idea how I'm alive)

MTB - I have the control of a turd being flushed down the toilet. Moto, broke my big toe. MTB I've broken most of my upper body.

Its expensive in pain, but the bikes generally survive better than the human, plus you get the same rush going considerably slower !
 
As always. Strong, light, cheap. Choose two.
Weight is far less of a factor (relatively) on any motorbike, and the prices reflect that. Add 5-10 kg to the weight of your ebike and watch the price plummet. Plus all the other factors covered well in the above discussion.
 
I think we’re forgetting about the Pit-Crew for our eMTB’s. My helper keeps an eye on anything I do to the bike. Makes me nervous sometimes but he gets his nose into everything. …until I scratch his chin. 👍🏻IMG_5625.jpeg
 
I bought a reign e+2 for 6100 dollars last year. The carbon version of my Ripmo AF is thousand dollars more. At least i got a battery and motor for that! Jokes aside this is an expensive sport but I love it anyways!
 
I wonder how many bike parts are designed by AI now.
some cassettes cost hundreds and they are surely just stamped rings of metal.
it's not like some guy is doing them by hand... also loads of parts are just CNC machined there's no skill or great cost involved int he actual manufacturing

Probably cheaper to just go back to 1930s manufacturing tech...
 
Ark said:
also loads of parts are just CNC machined there's no skill or great cost involved int he actual manufacturing
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😂😂😂
I suppose the equipment capable of designing and manufacturing a cassette is cheap as chips.
 
Motorbikes are better value on the face of it but cost a lot more to maintain.
My Ducati reached its desmo service last year and that plus a couple of tyres was £1200! I also have to pay to insure it all year and tax and MOT and I ride it less than six months of the year.
It’s good fun and I’ve done over 20,000 miles around the UK and Ireland but if I had to choose between that and the EMTB I’d definitely choose the EMTB.
It gets used way more thanks to the UK weather and if I do have an accident on it then it’s a 99% probability that it was my fault unlike the motorbike where you have to deal with drivers who aren’t looking where they’re going playing with their phone’s.
My wife also has a motorbike so I’m under no pressure to sell mine!
 
Stoffel said:
Motorbikes are better value on the face of it but cost a lot more to maintain.
My Ducati reached its desmo service last year and that plus a couple of tyres was £1200! I also have to pay to insure it all year and tax and MOT and I ride it less than six months of the year.
It’s good fun and I’ve done over 20,000 miles around the UK and Ireland but if I had to choose between that and the EMTB I’d definitely choose the EMTB.
It gets used way more thanks to the UK weather and if I do have an accident on it then it’s a 99% probability that it was my fault unlike the motorbike where you have to deal with drivers who aren’t looking where they’re going playing with their phone’s.
My wife also has a motorbike so I’m under no pressure to sell mine!
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the Tyres for my WR250r(I did pick a low maintaince bike at least) that i sold in the last year of C-19 cost about the same as for my MTB's, Brake pads cost more for the MTB etc etc

MTBs are high maintenance if you want them to keep functioning as they should, its one of the reasons i look forward to the Pinion Motor gear box units.
 
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