How to gain confidence

[flash]

ok...

But... er...

You really think so Dude?

I've no idea how you can even corner at all in the dry at those pressures.
I'd roll a 2.5 Exo clean off the rim at 19psi

Small nuts! What can I say....

I didn't say I was fast. I said the tyre could hold up to *my* riding. I'm in about the middle speed wise if Strava is to be believed (eBike ratings) for my local trails and 25-30 percentile for my age. *If* I get faster I might need to adjust. And I'm not telling anyone to use my settings.

I don't run EXO. I use DD casings and EXO+. 23-24 on the back.

Gordon

 

[Gary]

I'd hold back on giving out tyre advice until you improve and gain some experience mate. Someone's likely to get hurt following your advice.

Exo+ honestly doesn't offer significant sidewall support over Exo to go as low as you're suggesting at your weight and actually corner agressively

if Strava is to be believed (eBike ratings)

It isn't

 

[Tubby G]

At the end of the day I just want to go as fast as possible and try and increase battery range in the process too. I’m not too fussed about rear grip as I enjoy sliding and drifting, I want the grip in the front and I have no issues with my DHF. My bike does feel heavy in the rear, and yes it’s a heavy emtb but I also think the wide 2.8 DHR is contributing to the feel of the additional weight

I also want an all rounder tyre for the summer, most trails are now hard & compact, moors’ rides are mainly rocky bridleways so at speed it’s straight ish lines with long sweeping bends and not berms. Leeds Urban is extremely grippy concrete type surface and my tarmac rides eat through the mid grip on the DHR’s, and yes I don’t like the wide 2.8. Hence why I went for a ‘playful’ SS in the skinniest size available for my 35mm rims, a 2.3 - the centre slick tread will be ideal for tarmac, rocky bridleway, smooth hard trails and Leeds Urban concrete, and they also have DHR side ‘knobs’ for when I need grip in the berms and tight flat corners

Not too arsed abut technical climbs in the summer so don’t need rear grip for that, I leave that for the winter when everything slows down a little

 

[Tubby G]

Interesting thread

Been out today again and about twelve miles of forest fire roads.
Although there is still work to do, l am definitely faster just for looking through the turns.
The front still doesn't inspire confidence though. l feel a new set of tyres coming on.

Some of the fire roads were pretty vicious, not the small gravel but large stones and pieces of flint.
These threw the front wheel about a bit, obviously faster is better and it took some effort to keep off the brakes.
Particularly as the location is so remote, that if l crashed it's likely to be days before l would be found.

l also lowered the saddle a bit, l don't know if this was the right thing to do but it felt more stable.

Do you have a dropper post on your bike ? If so get that saddle as low as possible in every opportunity, you get far more control of the bike with the saddle out of the way. Also, with emtb’s, you can still climb easily with the saddle low (unless your knees ache from the weird position) so yes keep that saddle down as much as possible I’d say

 

[steve_sordy]

.................
I'd roll a 2.5 Exo clean off the rim at 19psi

Try using Gorilla tape for your rims!

 

[mak]

A lot of talk about suspension and tire pressures hear, can you actually get any grip on loose gravel as the original post eludes to?
To be honest dry gravel is asking for a front wash out regardless .

 

[Gary]

of course you can

gravel or not a front wheel washout is generally user error though

 

[Coolcmsc]

ok...

But... er...

You really think so Dude?

I've no idea how you can even corner at all in the dry at those pressures.
I'd roll a 2.5 Exo clean off the rim at 19psi

Really good point. The issue not really mentioned here is rider skill and speed. As rider skill improves from starter through intermediate to skilled, my own little theory is that pressures are best higher, then lower and then need to go back up again, soemetimes a lot. The pro DH’ers generally don’t advertise their pressures, but I’d be interested to hear if any one knows the ‘range’.

 

[flash]

Really good point. The issue not really mentioned here is rider skill and speed. As rider skill improves from starter through intermediate to skilled, my own little theory is that pressures are best higher, then lower and then need to go back up again, soemetimes a lot. The pro DH’ers generally don’t advertise their pressures, but I’d be interested to hear if any one knows the ‘range’.

Yes they do. Have a look at Jack Moir's latest video where he does a local event as a last *training* ride before leaving for the EWS season. He lists his pressures front and rear during the video.

Gordon

 

[Coolcmsc]

At the end of the day I just want to go as fast as possible and try and increase battery range in the process too.

So, I’m an e-biker and really not at all skilled — people watching me expect me to crater at every turn as we used to call it (I don’t ). But I am really experienced — 55 yrs off road — and my experience has taught me that good technique plus higher pressures will lead to less energy use and faster times (up and down hill). Lots will disagree — I can only speak for me.
And btw, in my opinion, you don’t need to be skilled (gifted?) to use good technique. I think this is often Gary’s point.
Anyway, and so it is with e-bikes, in my opinion: ride a less sticky tire with better technique at a higher pressure (especially up front) and you’ll get round the corners just as fast (faster probably) and go really a lot further on one battery (some say up to 30%, but in my experience going from, say, Assegai MaxT to DHF MaxT it’s more like 25% at 30psi and 20% at 25psi and it’ll be different for everybody for all the reasons and I’ll never be good enough to explore the difference between the two tyres at their limits).

 

[Coolcmsc]

Yes they do. Have a look at Jack Moir's latest video...

Gordon

Thanks mate, he’s obviously v happy to share!

 

[Gary]

Really good point. The issue not really mentioned here is rider skill and speed. As rider skill improves from starter through intermediate to skilled, my own little theory is that pressures are best higher, then lower and then need to go back up again, soemetimes a lot. The pro DH’ers generally don’t advertise their pressures, but I’d be interested to hear if any one knows the ‘range’.

Lighter World Cup downhill riders run as little as 23/24psi front 26psi rear with 2.5 dual ply DH casing tyres. Whereas heavier riders will need to run higher pressures up to low 30s.
Pressures are dropped a little more if the track becomes very wet/muddy and doesn't have an abundance of rocks or raised if hardpack and littered with sharp rocks

 

[Gary]

At events like Fest, Crankworks, Rampage. Audi nines etc where the riders are hitting 90ft doubles 40psi+i isn't uncommon (also using 2.5 dual ply tyres)... But that's mainly for maintaining good rolling speed and stability on the lips as they're pulling pretty big tricks. #understatement

 

[LetRippr]

l seem to have lost confidence in my front end, as in, when l take a corner on rough ground/gravel tracks l slow down because l am afraid that the front will wash out.
l never used to have this problem. My bike has a 2.8" Maxxis Minion tyre on the front, maybe it's the tyre that's no good?

lt's inflated to 20psi. The suspension is set to around 30% sag with the recommended compression and rebound settings, so l think that's alright.

How can l gain confidence and go faster?

Your set up is fine. One thing was a game changer for me. The shoulder lugs on the tyre are bigger for a reason, increased grip. So I learned how to use that increased grip. That came with body position, the sweet point is to have it just in front of the seat, then bank the bike into the turn and dig those shoulder lugs in, you need to be upright in front of the seat in order to really bank the bike down then all your weight pushes through the outside crank and really digs those shoulder lugs into the ground. If your on the seat or your ass is behind it, you end up unweighting the front end, hence risk of washout. Practice banking like this on wet grass, you'll see it work.

 

[Old Mike]

How can l gain confidence and go faster?

I go faster and faster until I fall off and break a bone.

Then I rest until the bone has almost healed and then go out and do the same again.

I'm getting quite quick now and last year was the first year since I started 4 years ago that I didn't break something. Lots more skin missing but that doesn't count.

So its working - I'm getting better!

And I have made some good friends at the Orthopaedics department at my local hospital.

 

[Julie]

l seem to have lost confidence in my front end, as in, when l take a corner on rough ground/gravel tracks l slow down because l am afraid that the front will wash out.
l never used to have this problem. My bike has a 2.8" Maxxis Minion tyre on the front, maybe it's the tyre that's no good?

lt's inflated to 20psi. The suspension is set to around 30% sag with the recommended compression and rebound settings, so l think that's alright.

How can l gain confidence and go faster?

Interesting...I have been slammed to the ground 4 times now when the front washed out on my Small LEVO Turbo unexpectedly. I have never experienced this on my analog bikes. It has typically not been on turns but rather when going over a rut or rocks. I am a very light rider (120 lbs fully loaded) and have to run a short stem as the bike is really too big for me. I have about 12 lbs in the tires and replaced the one that came on the front with a trusted Maxxis. I am beginning to think all the weight toward the rear of the bike, unbalanced by ballast in the front, is the cause of the problem. Needless to say, my confidence is badly shaken, as I fear it is only a matter of time before I get injured, having already broken one helmet and sprained a knee.

 

[Mteam]

Interesting...I have been slammed to the ground 4 times now when the front washed out on my Small LEVO Turbo unexpectedly. I have never experienced this on my analog bikes. It has typically not been on turns but rather when going over a rut or rocks. I am a very light rider (120 lbs fully loaded) and have to run a short stem as the bike is really too big for me. I have about 12 lbs in the tires and replaced the one that came on the front with a trusted Maxxis. I am beginning to think all the weight toward the rear of the bike, unbalanced by ballast in the front, is the cause of the problem. Needless to say, my confidence is badly shaken, as I fear it is only a matter of time before I get injured, having already broken one helmet and sprained a knee.

That does sound like a problem caused by not enough weight over the front wheel, which in turn is probably caused by a stem that is too short. You'll need to be consciously weighting the front wheel more than you are doing in order to give decent traction.

Try going back to a longer stem, or even rolling/rotating the bars to move the grips forward a little might be all that's needed.

If a longer stem makes seated pedalling uncomfortable, you could try sliding the saddle forward on the rails.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Interesting...I have been slammed to the ground 4 times now when the front washed out on my Small LEVO Turbo unexpectedly. I have never experienced this on my analog bikes. It has typically not been on turns but rather when going over a rut or rocks. I am a very light rider (120 lbs fully loaded) and have to run a short stem as the bike is really too big for me.….

Tricky one. And I think you‘re saying you have the smallest frame. Some detail on your riding position at these moments would help but, curiously, a lot of people are not very good at reporting what they are really doing without an opinion from others who’ve watched you…. Not you, or me, obviously ?

Some would say get a friend to video you over the sort of thing that’s changed (ruts and so on). If you could also borrow a small analogue bike (assuming you sold yours) you could video riding that at the same time/place to prove you’re riding them both the same way. Putting the camera on a tripod at ‘waist‘ height is ideal, but involves all the fuss of tripods and so on.

You might see the issue, or a friend might.

My own experience (fairly meaningless then…) is that for the reasons you give, e-bikes expose those riders who aren’t keepin their centre of gravity over the bottom bracket. And remember, achieving that sometimes involves getting your bum behind, to the side of or at other times towards the front of the saddle, all depending on what you’re doing and the slope of the ground. It also involves keeping your heels down. And it can often involve getting your upper body nearer the bars, sometimes slightly to one side of the centre line or the other (the most obvious version of the so-called ‘attack’ position, if you subscribe to that simple phrase being used to describe many things).

@Gary (for example above) posts great advice on this general topic in practical language. Search for his advice for how and when to get more weight onto the front tyre and how to increase your courage in using the front brake (although the latter obviously isn’t the issue for you in your question today) — the topic of moving your body dynamically over the front is not just about turning (often described), it‘s also about your current dilemma too.

Good luck ?

 

[1oldfart]

Interesting...I have been slammed to the ground 4 times now when the front washed out on my Small LEVO Turbo unexpectedly. I have never experienced this on my analog bikes. It has typically not been on turns but rather when going over a rut or rocks. I am a very light rider (120 lbs fully loaded) and have to run a short stem as the bike is really too big for me. I have about 12 lbs in the tires and replaced the one that came on the front with a trusted Maxxis. I am beginning to think all the weight toward the rear of the bike, unbalanced by ballast in the front, is the cause of the problem. Needless to say, my confidence is badly shaken, as I fear it is only a matter of time before I get injured, having already broken one helmet and sprained a knee.

My torso is way shorter than my legs so any bike/ebike i ride the sadle is slammed all the way forward.
I am also a light rider so i suggest you try that and obviously when you feel the need add weight on the front.
Maybe with the new saddle position a longer stem will be an option.

 

[Gary]

Try sitting down over ruts and rocks?

This place never fails to deliver.

One of the things new riders generally struggle with when riding ruts, roots and rough technical terrain is staying loose and allowing the bike to move around underneath you but maintaining a good strong centralised neutral body poosition while weighting and unweighting the tyres appropriately. looking further ahead helps massively with this but you need the experience to have scanned and taken in the upcoming trail allowing you to rarely ever need to look down.

After years of riding it's just muscle memory and instinct but when you type it all out I can see why it's a lot to ask of a beginner.

 

[Tonybro]

Gary's correct for ruts and rough terrain.

I always say to people, let yourself become a passenger. Let the bike track naturally within reason and, as Gary states, find a neutral, relaxed position so the bike can move around underneath you. Trust the bike's tyres to grip. You need some momentum too. Don't try to do this too slowly because without momentum you will need to balance the bike also. Momentum doesn't mean hurtle into the rough stuff, just have enough to overcome the need to balance the bike if going slowly.

It does become muscle and technique memory after a while and you just do it. Then you are less fatigued also as you are relaxed...

 

[RustyMTB]

You need some momentum too. Don't try to do this too slowly because without momentum you will need to balance the bike also. Momentum doesn't mean hurtle into the rough stuff, just have enough to overcome the need to balance the bike if going slowly.

That's the trick imo. When I see people going down with the ship, often as not they're sat down when they shouldn't be. Riding stood up is much more tiring than seated but it's a key skill to cope with trails, let the bike move beneath you & use the biggest suspension component I.e. your legs, arms & body to move around the bike to keep it supple, balanced & smooth. Thing is, like all skills, it does have to be learned & we all learn at different rates.

 

[Tonybro]

Can you believe this guys, I noticed on one of my videos, my shadow was in frame and shows the technique from the riders position and viewpoint.

Short clip riding down the rough and rutted descent from the top of Winter Hill.

CAVEAT: I am not the world's best, nor am I a coach but I have 30 years experience of riding MTBs!

Watch my upper body shadow and watch the bike bucking and moving around underneath.

Just an example and I am sure there will be comments about how I am (I wouldn't expect less of this friendly crowd! ?)

For those looking for confidence and technique, if this 56 year old cripple can do it, you youngsters can too!

 

[RustyMTB]

Probably been said in here before but another truism is look where you want to go. If you do that, you'll end up there. Every pro I've ever seen asked about riding tips has offered that at one time or another.

 

[The Hodge]

Tonybro..
Havent watched the video yet ..but just so you are not left disappointed ..you're sh1t..??


edit : that looked good for a shadow ..

 

[B1rdie]

I use to check my shoulders position by the shadow, if theyr shape is convex, shoulders far from the ears, as you do, its OK, all relax on the way to the trailhead…

 

[Gary]

It's kinda eye opening seeing what sort of terrain some folk consider to be rough for an mtb.

 

[RustyMTB]

Insecurities manifest themselves in many forms.

 

[Tonybro]

It's kinda eye opening seeing what sort of terrain some folk consider to be rough for an mtb.

After living in NE Scotland for 14 years, Gary, and racing there, I do know what rough is. That isn't too bad in the video mainly rutted which is a problem in and of itself. Same on skis - raced on them too, downhill at 80+mph, rough doesn't come into it...

But at 56 and some paralysis in the left leg, spinal surgery and shoulder surgery, I don't do too bad...

Only downside is, my shadow does better than I do!

 

[Tonybro]

Tonybro..
Havent watched the video yet ..but just so you are not left disappointed ..you're sh1t..??


edit : that looked good for a shadow ..

Cheers, Hodge, I knew I could rely on you...