Forbidden Druid - Avinox Powered
- Thread starter jbrown15
- Start date
As normal people with normal budgets and time limitations, we have to read these reviews very carefully to discern what is likely to serve us best. I replace each bike every 2 years so I'm pretty stuck with the decision once I hand over my money.
I run long reach bikes, and flat like them. Even though I'm actively trying to get down from my usual 490-495mm Reach to my next e-bike being closer to 480-485mm reach.
Anyways, Kaz said this:
"After a few laps things started to click on the CoreE, but I never quite felt like I fully unlocked its potential. I'd be curious to try a 50mm stem; that's what I ran on the Norco Range VLT, which happens to have an almost identical reach number to the Forbidden. I have a hunch that would force my weight a little more towards the front of the bike and improve the balance, at least for my riding style. I don't get too hung up on achieving a certain reach number, since there's more to a bike's geometry than just one figure on a chart, but in this case it felt like I was settling more towards the back of the bike; maybe the tractor beam of that longer rear center was pulling me in."
I've really disliked short reach bikes in the past and I don't really buy in to the whole 'Stack is the same as Reach' argument because when I run tall bars, I do not tilt them back, therefore I don't lose any Reach. But I had decided to risk it and had a hold on an E-core. But had huge concerns.
Also, I have to acknowledge that Brian Cahal is a younger and better rider than I am so his preferences might not always track.
But several things including, the motor efficiency tests that e-mtb review did, the notably lower system weight of the Regulator, the geo being more my taste on the Regulator, the introduction of the CRX motor, the likely very high tariff effected price of the Forbidden AND in particular Kaz's statement (he's the same height as me, yet I like bikes even longer than him) have swayed me over to the Transition as soon as I can get the CX-R in it.
I’d love to see a picture of your bikes, because you’ve referenced this oddity before about your bars rising perfectly at 90 degrees to the ground. Various people have explained the basic trig & the effects on reach, yet your bike (and logic) seems to defy the laws of maths
FWIW, im not sure anyone has said ’stack is the same as reach’. More that you cannot just isolate one measurement and say “yeah, I’m good”. Bikes with similar reach, and varying stack DO feel different, regardless of any weird sh*t you do with handlebars.
Just buy the bloody Transition.
jbrown15
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #424
I sell Transitions, great bikes and I already have a buddy on the Regulator. I think you're getting your hopes up on that new CX-R motor, I have seen zero announcement from Transition that they plan on offering that motor in their Regulator. Even Orbea only offered it in their Top spec Wild. So I think you're jumping the gun a little thinking you'll be able to buy it in a bike from Transition.
I didn't think that you particularly understand.I’d love to see a picture of your bikes, because you’ve referenced this oddity before about your bars rising perfectly at 90 degrees to the ground. Various people have explained the basic trig & the effects on reach, yet your bike (and logic) seems to defy the laws of maths
FWIW, im not sure anyone has said ’stack is the same as reach’. More that you cannot just isolate one measurement and say “yeah, I’m good”. Bikes with similar reach, and varying stack DO feel different, regardless of any weird sh*t you do with handlebars.
Just buy the bloody Transition.
My high rise bars (when I've ran them) are not tilted back in my lap. I run the bare minimum of under stem spacers.
If you don't understand that, I don't know what else to say. Bar rise is a vertical dimension, plain and simply and the rise is perpendicular to the ground.
If you prefer to set your bars where the rise is inline with the HTA, then yes you will see a corresponding reduction in reach.
Since I stand up over the front end and not behind my bars, I have my rise going vertical. Just like MX bikes are set up.
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Ridgydidge
Member
I like to be balanced on the pedals in the attack position, and have the rear wheel to break traction first, when you lay it over hard, then, reluctantly, the front wheel. This gives a lovely controlled full wheel drift - the best feeling, particularly here in our sandgroper pea gravel. I find that bikes that are too slack / too long in the reach = too much front centre over rear centre for the steepness of the terrain being ridden (and tbh I’m just your average ‘blue/easy black’ kind of a dude) - that leave you arsed too much over the back wheel - tend to break front wheel traction first. Then you are always fighting to get over/onto the front wheel as you initiate into a turn. No fun, hard work, slow.
I think this is what Kazimer might be alluding to, perhaps - reading between the lines - and giving my personal biases full send…
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Same regarding balance and my priorities.
But what I think Kaz was referring to in the case of the e-core was that the reach was too short for him and had him riding off the back and that he suspected that a longer stem would have helped.
Many years ago I was a fast motorcycle racer and I can feel right away if a bike is balanced or not. It's my main goal with a bike and why I've been pro long chain stay for years now.
The Forbidden took it pretty far, but maybe it's amazing.
But what I think Kaz was referring to in the case of the e-core was that the reach was too short for him and had him riding off the back and that he suspected that a longer stem would have helped.
Many years ago I was a fast motorcycle racer and I can feel right away if a bike is balanced or not. It's my main goal with a bike and why I've been pro long chain stay for years now.
The Forbidden took it pretty far, but maybe it's amazing.
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Kaz has been riding a v3 Raaw Madonna for a while, with a stack of 664 and reach of 480. eDruid core s3 is 662 stack and 467 reach. Tracks he would want to get some length back because that’s what he has been riding the last couple of years and what he is adapted to.
I’m a half inch shorter than Kaz, had three 485 reach bikes that I adapted to no problem. But some of my fastest times were on similar geo, but different travelled bikes — a Raaw Jibb v2 and a Banshee Titan — tall stack, long stays, moderate reach. Centered, stable, maneuverable. Long reach is great for point-and-shoot straight ahead downhill stability, but if your trails have a lot of turns, you have to work harder. BB height can mitigate long reaches too, but eBikes seem to run higher.
Or just get the regulator and save yourself the anguish. By July, if there is no clarity on US ship dates, I'll probably do the same.
There you go again, obsessing over one singularity.
FWIW, the Regulator, which he tested in large & was complimentary of, has a smaller span than the Druid (which is actually, right in the middle of the Regulator & V3 Madonna).
The Druid is actually comparable in that respect to most XL bikes (810+ mm is around the tipping point).
Have you bought a Regulator yet?
Not yet bud.
Going through a nasty divorce at the moment so can't have any large expenditures, but also I'm waiting on the CX-R which I've been told will be available in the Regulator 3rd quarter, which should coincide well with my freedom.
I enjoy combing through the reviews and creating my little spreadsheets to try and determine which bikes hit my personal desires the best. So I've been in no hurry while studying the many new options.
But unless I read or personally test something really intriguing out there, I've decided. I have full Avalanche coil suspension on my Relay, huge benefit that I can reuse my suspension on the Regulator as well. I also get a deal on Transitions, so that matters a bit as well.
Regarding Kaz and his brief E-Druid review. It's true the 'span' on the E-Druid is larger than the Span on the Regulator. Yet he felt too far back and in need of a longer stem on the E-Druid and not the Regulator. This indicates that I'm not the only one that wants around a 480mm reach on my e-bike. It's okay that we have different opinions on this, but within reason, I don't consider Span to compensate for Reach as I need my arms and elbows positioned in a natural way. Of course if stack is 60mm too low, that's a problem that can't be corrected with modern high rise bars. At it's extreme, would a 0mm reach yet a 1200mm stack (or whatever the number is) be the same as a more normal reach & stack? Of course not. This still applies even when not taken to an extreme.
The E-Druid & the Mith are still the most exciting new e-bikes being released even if they don't appear to hit my bullet points and I'm enjoying learning all about them.
Going through a nasty divorce at the moment so can't have any large expenditures, but also I'm waiting on the CX-R which I've been told will be available in the Regulator 3rd quarter, which should coincide well with my freedom.
I enjoy combing through the reviews and creating my little spreadsheets to try and determine which bikes hit my personal desires the best. So I've been in no hurry while studying the many new options.
But unless I read or personally test something really intriguing out there, I've decided. I have full Avalanche coil suspension on my Relay, huge benefit that I can reuse my suspension on the Regulator as well. I also get a deal on Transitions, so that matters a bit as well.
Regarding Kaz and his brief E-Druid review. It's true the 'span' on the E-Druid is larger than the Span on the Regulator. Yet he felt too far back and in need of a longer stem on the E-Druid and not the Regulator. This indicates that I'm not the only one that wants around a 480mm reach on my e-bike. It's okay that we have different opinions on this, but within reason, I don't consider Span to compensate for Reach as I need my arms and elbows positioned in a natural way. Of course if stack is 60mm too low, that's a problem that can't be corrected with modern high rise bars. At it's extreme, would a 0mm reach yet a 1200mm stack (or whatever the number is) be the same as a more normal reach & stack? Of course not. This still applies even when not taken to an extreme.
The E-Druid & the Mith are still the most exciting new e-bikes being released even if they don't appear to hit my bullet points and I'm enjoying learning all about them.
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Highland Wheels
Well-known member
More importantly, @Rob Rides EMTB when you getting a ride/video up of one?
Red Peekay
Active member
Interesting take by DJI on the whole power debate now occurring around e-mtb's, and the notion that they should be governed to lower power outputs.
ebike-mtb.com
Official DJI Statement on the 750 W Regulation and DJI Avinox 1000 W Update
DJI releases 1,000 W update for the Avinox M1 and rejects the proposed blanket 750 W limit – we break down the update and their statement.
ebike-mtb.com
Chrysaor
Active member
ahahah what a bullshit justifying the 1000w for disable and overweight people (my gf rides an E-bike with disability)Interesting take by DJI on the whole power debate now occurring around e-mtb's, and the notion that they should be governed to lower power outputs.
Official DJI Statement on the 750 W Regulation and DJI Avinox 1000 W Update
DJI releases 1,000 W update for the Avinox M1 and rejects the proposed blanket 750 W limit – we break down the update and their statement.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Have you considered that a 750 watt is more powerful for a 120 pound rider than 1000w is for a 250 pound rider? You know there are large and heavy men that aren't overweight right?
Chrysaor
Active member
Let’s cut to the chase, the 1000W update is meant to shred the ups and have the most powerful motor on the market which is probably fun and totally fine by me I don’t understand why hiding under other justifications as an opening statement.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Hey there's no doubt that the core pitch is that it is fast and fun. That doesn't change the fact that 1000w is just as reasonable as 750w depending on context. If we're ok with 750w for a fit woman, then we should be ok with 1000w for a fit 225 pound man.
I think as long as they're speed limited so people aren't a true danger, it's fine.
bakedbun
Active member
So much want! Hopefully my LBS can get one, so I can make a financially irresponsible decision.
Tell me me about it. Official USD pricing has been on the forbidden website for a few days now. I'm sure the specs will be subject to change but the core spec 1 doesn't even come with carbon bars? and the core spec 2 has an eagle 70 cassette?? hopefully that is a huge typo because the eagle 70 cassette is HG and core spec 2 comes with crankbros XD freehub. We don't even get the fast charger.
MTB-WALES
Active member
It’s the fast charger that kills me, I have a lot of respect for forbidden but it took a dent when they mention this in the overview: Both equipped with the revolutionary Avinox . The ability to run 600 Wh or 800 Wh batteries, and the fastest charging available on the market.
Then stealth add the shit charger in. The alloy bar on a 10k bike is also pretty poor but the charger is a big part of the avinoxs allure. Surely they could have rolled it into the cost of the bike somehow, or even as an option.
I wonder if the charger thing is because fast charging might kill off your battery quicker. Not sure if this is fact or fiction however
Using Ev cars as guidance, fast charging does cause a bit more wear, but it's way overstated.
If you used the slow charge feature most days and only used fast charging when you need to head back out for some more loops, you'd be no worse for the wear. EV cars that have been fast charged daily for AirBNB service, get worn batteries after about 3 years. I don't think you are going to fast charge that often. Besides, new batteries can be purchased.
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Special item for sure. With the tariffs the price in the states will likely be silly.
It's definitely way overpriced, not even accounting for the Trump tax. Nickel-and-diming with the fast charger is just a bad look.
Local dealer texted me Aug-Oct (gonna assume October) for the Core3. Now I will debate for a few hours on whether to retain my reservation.
Local dealer texted me Aug-Oct (gonna assume October) for the Core3. Now I will debate for a few hours on whether to retain my reservation.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
Pretty sure the price they listed is with the tariffs in mind. There's a reason they had TBD posted for a while while they figured it out. They're assembling the bikes in the USA.
Even though it is way overpriced, what would you swap out? The wheels are not fancy but will work, run them till they break. Suspension is good. Brakes are good (though, not a fan of Mavens myself). Dropper is fine. Cheap cassette doesn't bother me, it's a heavy wear item.
My only two changes: SQLab saddle, of course. Carbon OneUp bars (or if We Are One ever releases their updated carbon bar) are also a mandatory for me. Maybe grips.
I just checked the price and it's the exact same that they told me months ago and frankly doesn't seem outrageous at all.
I only paid a few hundred less for my Relay (before they went on sell soon after).
If I were to buy it, I'd go with the Core 3, shed all of the turd parts and install them on my old Relay to sell it off.
I only paid a few hundred less for my Relay (before they went on sell soon after).
If I were to buy it, I'd go with the Core 3, shed all of the turd parts and install them on my old Relay to sell it off.
bakedbun
Active member
Same here i would be replacing too many things on 3 so went with spec 2.
I heard they've setup shop somewhere in Bellingham for partial assembly in the USA.
I am going with the core 3. Tbh I am pretty happy with that build. If I can't get the forks set up how I want I will just put another damper in mabe a fast. Otherwise I think she will be good to go although I am sure I will run it at 170 not 160. I always seem to like the Xtra bit of security 
I currently run mt7 brakes so if I am unhappy with the mavens I will swap out.kinda like the thought of a lewis lt4s also. I will give the mavens a fair old test first though.
I currently run mt7 brakes so if I am unhappy with the mavens I will swap out.kinda like the thought of a lewis lt4s also. I will give the mavens a fair old test first though.
DirkWisely
Well-known member
I went with the core 1 just so I wouldn't be immediately inclined to start swapping parts. I'm interested to see how it rides as set up from Forbidden. The value proposition doesn't seem too bad in comparison to buying the upgrades myself. The carbon wheels alone make up half the price difference from the core3.I am going with the core 3. Tbh I am pretty happy with that build. If I can't get the forks set up how I want I will just put another damper in mabe a fast. Otherwise I think she will be good to go although I am sure I will run it at 170 not 160. I always seem to like the Xtra bit of security
I'm not expecting to like the Mavens though, so I might sell those.
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