Forbidden DreadNought E

[ntm95]

My experience has been that there's not much difference between the current model 38, zeb, and rxf38.
Slower speed comfort it's zeb, 38, then rxf.
For pushing the pace, it's the opposite, as one would expect.
It's shades of gray though. My old avalanche hybrid zeb still kicks all their asses noticeably. Particularly in rough, fast, off camber corners.

It's worth noting that grip 2 fox 38's had some wildly differing damping curves due to manufacturing tolerances, and many were completely unsuitable for lighter riders. My wife couldn't use one at all at 115 pounds riding weight.

 

[mhueschen]

I run way lower than recommended air pressure and have been happy. Prior to that my experience mirrors yours.
For fork, why not get a Dorado?

ah, that's good info to have about the lower air pressures!

the Dorado Pro isn't approved for ebike use, and the Comp/Expert add substantial weight, I also know and like the RXF38 m.so I went with the Ohlins

 

[zizajaun]

I demoed two Tier 1 Dreadnought Es (S2 and S3) at Forest of Dean the other day. I started with the red Freeminers XC trail and skills area (jumps and drops), then mostly did repeated runs of black tech: Elephant Man, Y2K, Ski Run, Corkscrew, etc. Most climbs were on fire roads, but I also climbed up the loose bank at the bottom of Y2K/Elephant Man to test climbing traction. Here are my notes:

• I'm 172cm tall with 32 inch inner leg and weigh about 108kg kitted up.
• Current bike is a medium Geometron G1 (roughly 490 reach, 1310 wheelbase, 440 seat tube, depending on settings) with CYC X1 Pro motor and either a 750 Wh (4 kg) or 1300 Wh (8 kg) battery, giving a total weight of about 28 kg or 32 kg. The motor puts out up to 6kw and 28 Nm with a throttle (which I haven't installed) but 'only' 3kw and 210 Nm with pedal assist.
• The S3 feels (and is) a similar size to my medium Geometron G1, and likewise was a bit hard to corner, tending to understeer. I didn't notice much benefit in terms of stability on the rough straights either, but it might be more apparent on proper DH tracks. It also has a 440 seat tube, which is too long for someone of my height. The remaining comments are about the S2, which I spent more time on.
• With a 75mm-rise bar and 40mm stem to replace the stock ones, the S2 is almost the right size for me, but I'd want it to be 10mm longer reach ideally. Even after accounting for the high stack and growing chainstay, the S2 is a bit shorter than most mediums in other brands, and very similar to a small Geometron G1. Ideally the seat tube would be shorter as well (e.g. 400mm instead of 420) so I can run a Switchgrade and/or a comfy touring saddle without losing too much freedom of movement, but 420 is just about acceptable.
• It is remarkably nimble and playful for a long-travel bike, even on tame, low-angle trails. I suppose anything would feel nimble compared to my current bike; but it also felt lighter and more chuckable than any of the Bosch bikes I've ridden (Vala, Bullit, Sight VLT, Regulator). It's possible some of that is due to my using my own high-rise bars for the Dreadnought demo; I felt way too hunched over with the stock bars, but I like an unusually high front end. Note also that the S2 has pretty middle-of-the-road geometry, e.g. 449mm chainstays, whereas the bigger sizes have chainstays and stack that are off the charts.
• It wasn't an amazing jumper, but not terrible either - it just felt like there was a bit of a delay and a bit more effort was needed to pop, as the chainstays extend during preload.
• I didn't notice any weird cornering characteristics. With the Norco Sight, which has mid-pivot iTrack suspension (same as the Velduro Rogue), it seemed to wallow and understeer in supported corners, but I didn't notice that on the Forbidden, despite the pivot being higher. This might be due to suspension differences: I think the Norco was undersprung, and not much effort was put into setting up the bike properly for me, whereas I had 30% sag and recommended clicker settings on the Forbidden. I actually found the bike excellent at cornering: both nimble (easy to tip over onto the side knobs, and to change direction) and stable, with good front-wheel traction. I did wash out the rear wheel a few times on very loose ground, but I think that's because the Mavens are super grabby and I have poor braking technique. The bike's traction and composure in rough corners is probably its stand-out characteristic for me.
• The BB is pretty low so I had quite a few pedal strikes and down tube strikes. It might not be the best bike if you mostly ride natural tech with lots of big rocks/logs.
• On the brakes: the Maven Ultimate B1 brakes on the S2 were by far the most powerful I've ever tried, even with just 200mm rotors. I've had Hope Tech 4 V4, Hope Evo GR4, Hayes Dominion A4, Radic Kaha, Shigura XT5, Shimano SLX, Maven Bronze A1, and a few others. None of those had as much power as I'd like, even with 223mm Galfer Shark rotors on both ends. Interestingly, the identical brakes on the S3 were much less powerful, so I guess a lot of it is down to the bleed/setup.
• XO Transmission: Good, but not massively better than Linkglide, which is a fraction of the price. It still crunches if you shift more than one gear at a time under high power. The main benefit of SRAM wireless is coast shifting, which is genuinely helpful, though it would be better if you could shift at a complete standstill (you have to be rolling).
• 2027 Zeb Ultimate Charger 3.2: Excellent overall. Much more supple and composed than my 2025/26 Charger 3.1 model with WPS Podium piston kit. I kept bottoming out with 23% sag, not realising that the ABO was at the minimum, because it was so linear, so I'd probably want to run 15-20% sag with 2-4 clicks of ABO.
• Avinox M2S motor: Felt slow and underpowered on steep fire road climbs, even in 'Boost', but anything would next to the CYC. The 'traction-control' was impressive: not much slipping on steep, loose climbs that I struggle to clean on the much more powerful but much less refined CYC motor.
• Battery lasted less than 2 hours. Unfortunately I left my phone in my van so I can't compare the range to my other batteries.
• Overall, the S2 Dreadnought E was by far the best bike I've ever ridden, with the caveats that I haven't ridden a huge number of bikes, and that more effort was put into setting up the cockpit and suspension on the Forbidden than on other bikes I've demoed/rented.
• Suggested improvements for the next iteration: shorter seat tubes, slightly longer reaches (ideally, more sizes with smaller gaps between them), high/low BB flip chip, frameset option, removable battery (which would make it easier to offer framesets, as batteries don't need to be shipped internationally), lower prices, maybe a cheap alloy option (but with the M2S motor or equally-powerful gearbox for us fatties).

 

[Highland Wheels]

Interesting thoughts on the Zebs


I've got 25/26 Uktimates and was gonna fire a WPS piston in them come service time but if the MY27s are still better then maybe I'll not bother and just go for them

 

[mike172]

Interesting thoughts on the Zebs


I've got 25/26 Uktimates and was gonna fire a WPS piston in them come service time but if the MY27s are still better then maybe I'll not bother and just go for them

I have 25/26 with the WPS. FWIW I find the only way to get decent levels of mid support is by using 3 tokens, but then they lack composure over rougher riding terrain where I need to drop back to 1 token, at which point they lack decent mid support. I like them a lot but they aren't as good as Ohlins RXF.

I thought the WPS was very subtle (have it in my vivid too), worth doing? Maybe.

ntm95s post above sums it up nicely.​

 

[Highland Wheels]

The Ohlins are quite a firmly camped fork arn't they? In comparison to soemthing like the Zeb that is a little more plush?

If the WPS wasn't a massive difference then maybe not worthwhile doing then

 

[mike172]

The Ohlins are quite a firmly camped fork arn't they? In comparison to soemthing like the Zeb that is a little more plush?

They can feel woody off the top until you get moving (mine are Jtech tuned with the spacer removed), definitely suit a faster rider but once I got a taste for the mid support I couldn't go back to anything else. Hence the 3 spacers in the Zebb.

 

[Highland Wheels]

My Zebs will be due a service after the summer so I'll see whats what then. Might try to optimise them before commiting to a whole new fork

 

[zizajaun]

I have 25/26 with the WPS. FWIW I find the only way to get decent levels of mid support is by using 3 tokens, but then they lack composure over rougher riding terrain where I need to drop back to 1 token, at which point they lack decent mid support. I like them a lot but they aren't as good as Ohlins RXF.

I thought the WPS was very subtle (have it in my vivid too), worth doing? Maybe.

ntm95s post above sums it up nicely.​

Sounds like they gave you the wrong tune. I think the piston kit has 5 possible shim stacks, so you might want to ask them to give you a firmer one on the next service. Unfortunately they won't share the details with customers so you can't easily do it yourself. I got the second-stiffest tune and the fork seemed to feel harsher after they installed the kit, but I can't be sure as I was off the bike for a few months with injury between riding the stock fork and the one with the kit.

I certainly wouldn't expect it to have a dramatic difference on performance, unless the tune is very different from the original, so I'm pretty sure the 2027 fork would be better for most people.

 

[Red Peekay]

If anyone is on an S3, approx 187cm or 6' 2" and swapped in a Reverb dropper post, what length did you run with? Cheers.

 

[Mars2]

I just Got my Dreadnought E T2 S2 600WH battery

I come from a Strive-on Size S with a 50mm rise handle bar. Cockpit hight about same high as the Dread with the original 20mm rise handle bar.

I Ride Saturday and Sunday on my home run that I ride 2 or 3 time a week. So I have good comparable base.
This place is more like a mini bike park than a Super twisty tight curve mountain enduro

The bike is amazing!!!
I was worry that I took to "Radical" bike for myself. specialy after reading the report from Loam wolf
But it is defenetly not.

After the first downhill I felt totaly at home on this bike. like I always have ride it.
So I started to adjust my suspension setting at each run to get it like I want.
I ended with 8 psi less in the fork than plush setting on Forbidden and 7 Psi more in the rear than Firm setting.
I also ride with the rebound quite open in the rear. I like my bike's like that.


The bike is amazing in rock garden, like a flying carpet, then when you come to curve it has so much grip its surprising.
I read that this bike doesn't have pop. Compare to my Strive-on it has much more,I over shot the first table.
The high front end make me feel so confident almost like every thing is happening in slow motion. So much that I thought I was slow.
but when I look at time I'm not.
I feel it very easy to, move right and left t change direction.

Going uphill it also has crazy traction and on the super steep hill where my Canyon Strive on with only a Gen 4 bosch would start to lift front wheel this one doesn't move even though it has double the power and torque. very surprising.

The only thing that I don't love so much is how the M2S deliver the power. I feel it's like their is some lag. Its not as direct as Bosch.
It's like for cars if the bosch was a naturally aspirated engine with instant medium power and the M2S is Turbo engine with big power and lag.
So when you pedal between two curve to accelerate at the beginning you feel like their is no power so you press harder on the pedal and then it all come and you arrive too fast in next curve.
I have to play more with setting. I will for sure get use to it. Like when I got my first car with big turbo.

And one little thing that help a lot at my place is the M2S being so easy to derestricted ( VPN New zealand). Being able to have power assist to give those two or 3 pedal kick before some jump is amazing good. The Bosch was crazy heavy above 25KM/H. The first day I run M2s without having derestricted it and I have to say that it is already much more easy to pedal above 25KM/H than Bosch.

So happy of the present I did to myself

I just changed the following on it.

- Pirreli race Enduro M in front great on super dry like now in south of France. don't like the High Roller
- Burgetec 38mm rise ( other wise with original handle bar it would be same front high as my Strive-on)
- Pinnd 145mm cranck from my old bike because they are beautiful and 5mm shorter.
- cut brake hose shorter and put front brake right like on my motorbike. too much confusing other wise.

 

[Slowerontheups]

I just Got my Dreadnought E T2 S2 600WH battery

I come from a Strive-on Size S with a 50mm rise handle bar. Cockpit hight about same high as the Dread with the original 20mm rise handle bar.

I Ride Saturday and Sunday on my home run that I ride 2 or 3 time a week. So I have good comparable base.
This place is more like a mini bike park than a Super twisty tight curve mountain enduro

The bike is amazing!!!
I was worry that I took to "Radical" bike for myself. specialy after reading the report from Loam wolf
But it is defenetly not.

After the first downhill I felt totaly at home on this bike. like I always have ride it.
So I started to adjust my suspension setting at each run to get it like I want.
I ended with 8 psi less in the fork than plush setting on Forbidden and 7 Psi more in the rear than Firm setting.
I also ride with the rebound quite open in the rear. I like my bike's like that.


The bike is amazing in rock garden, like a flying carpet, then when you come to curve it has so much grip its surprising.
I read that this bike doesn't have pop. Compare to my Strive-on it has much more,I over shot the first table.
The high front end make me feel so confident almost like every thing is happening in slow motion. So much that I thought I was slow.
but when I look at time I'm not.
I feel it very easy to, move right and left t change direction.

Going uphill it also has crazy traction and on the super steep hill where my Canyon Strive on with only a Gen 4 bosch would start to lift front wheel this one doesn't move even though it has double the power and torque. very surprising.

The only thing that I don't love so much is how the M2S deliver the power. I feel it's like their is some lag. Its not as direct as Bosch.
It's like for cars if the bosch was a naturally aspirated engine with instant medium power and the M2S is Turbo engine with big power and lag.
So when you pedal between two curve to accelerate at the beginning you feel like their is no power so you press harder on the pedal and then it all come and you arrive too fast in next curve.
I have to play more with setting. I will for sure get use to it. Like when I got my first car with big turbo.

And one little thing that help a lot at my place is the M2S being so easy to derestricted ( VPN New zealand). Being able to have power assist to give those two or 3 pedal kick before some jump is amazing good. The Bosch was crazy heavy above 25KM/H. The first day I run M2s without having derestricted it and I have to say that it is already much more easy to pedal above 25KM/H than Bosch.

So happy of the present I did to myself

I just changed the following on it.

- Pirreli race Enduro M in front great on super dry like now in south of France. don't like the High Roller
- Burgetec 38mm rise ( other wise with original handle bar it would be same front high as my Strive-on)
- Pinnd 145mm cranck from my old bike because they are beautiful and 5mm shorter.
- cut brake hose shorter and put front brake right like on my motorbike. too much confusing other wise.

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The bike look incredible. There is one at my Local shop that I'm seriously considering, wondering what your height and inseam are, i'm 5,10 31". Currently riding a large Yeti SB165. Looking at the numbers the S2 is just a touch longer than the yeti in wheelbase, top tube and reach are significantly smaller. I sat on it in the shop and it didn't feel strange. I've read this entire thread, and forbidden GEO, plus the the Loam wolf review. People 6,2 enjoying the s3 seems to indicate that I'd be ok on the S2. Just trying to get feedback from as many people as possible. Cheers on the bike

 

[Mars2]

I'm 172cm and 79cm inseam

 

[tahoedeaner]

im 5'10" and 31" inseam and the S2 feels great, I'm sure you could go S3 and feel good but it depends how you want your bike to handle. The bike is indeed incredible, for me the S2 retains tons of playfulness but can still plow! The s2 comes with a 20mm rise bar, which is wild. I swapped mine out to a 38mm rise and it feels much better!

 

[zizajaun]

im 5'10" and 31" inseam and the S2 feels great, I'm sure you could go S3 and feel good but it depends how you want your bike to handle. The bike is indeed incredible, for me the S2 retains tons of playfulness but can still plow! The s2 comes with a 20mm rise bar, which is wild. I swapped mine out to a 38mm rise and it feels much better!

I'm 172cm (5'7 1/2") with ~81cm (31-32") inseam. The S2 felt about 10mm too short in reach (or 20mm too low in stack), which fits my experience on other bikes, but the S3 was much too big. I put a 75mm rise bar on the S2 for the demo, which felt about right (could go down to 65 ish maybe). I didn't change bars for the S3 demo, which might be part of the reason it felt too long, but I'm still pretty sure the S2 would fit better. It's a shame they don't use a 56/56 headset so I could extend the reach by 5mm or so. As it is, I don't think I'd want to buy the Dreadnought as it would compromise fit too much. I really wish manufacturers would either make reach adjustable or offer more sizes.

One workaround might be to reduce fork travel or use an upside down fork like a Dorado, which are about 10mm shorter axle to crown for a give travel figure, which would gain about 5mm of reach. But then the BB would be even lower; I was already getting lots of pedal and frame strikes on the demo.

 

[tahoedeaner]

I'm 172cm (5'7 1/2") with ~81cm (31-32") inseam. The S2 felt about 10mm too short in reach (or 20mm too low in stack), which fits my experience on other bikes, but the S3 was much too big. I put a 75mm rise bar on the S2 for the demo, which felt about right (could go down to 65 ish maybe). I didn't change bars for the S3 demo, which might be part of the reason it felt too long, but I'm still pretty sure the S2 would fit better. It's a shame they don't use a 56/56 headset so I could extend the reach by 5mm or so. As it is, I don't think I'd want to buy the Dreadnought as it would compromise fit too much. I really wish manufacturers would either make reach adjustable or offer more sizes.

One workaround might be to reduce fork travel or use an upside down fork like a Dorado, which are about 10mm shorter axle to crown for a give travel figure, which would gain about 5mm of reach. But then the BB would be even lower; I was already getting lots of pedal and frame strikes on the demo.

to each their own, I love the fit of my s2!

 

[Slowerontheups]

im 5'10" and 31" inseam and the S2 feels great, I'm sure you could go S3 and feel good but it depends how you want your bike to handle. The bike is indeed incredible, for me the S2 retains tons of playfulness but can still plow! The s2 comes with a 20mm rise bar, which is wild. I swapped mine out to a 38mm rise and it feels much better!

Really helpful thanks. S2 seems really like a solid direction. Its primarily going to see steep natural trails with, drops, rocks and slabs. Modern Quebec Enduro trail centres. Putting the S2 versus my size large sb165 in the Geo compare, the decrease in reach form the yeti is near identical to the increase in stack on the Dread, and the wheelbase is nearly identical. I honestly can't tell if these kind of comparisons are even meaningfull, other than to say the bike seems like it's a similar size, but orients the rider in it differently due to the design approach.

 

[ShapeThings]

The bike look incredible. There is one at my Local shop that I'm seriously considering, wondering what your height and inseam are, i'm 5,10 31". Currently riding a large Yeti SB165. Looking at the numbers the S2 is just a touch longer than the yeti in wheelbase, top tube and reach are significantly smaller. I sat on it in the shop and it didn't feel strange. I've read this entire thread, and forbidden GEO, plus the the Loam wolf review. People 6,2 enjoying the s3 seems to indicate that I'd be ok on the S2. Just trying to get feedback from as many people as possible. Cheers on the bike

I bought a s3 eDruid and would've bought the S2 if I did it over again. I'm a half inch taller. For our size, Forbidden ebike geometry is basically an exercise in cognitive dissonance. I rode the Reya this weekend in s2 and s3. I'm right in the middle!

I went with a shorter stem, that helped out.

 

[Slowerontheups]

"For our size, Forbidden ebike geometry is basically an exercise in cognitive dissonance. " . Sums it up well. Its really challenging when you can just ride the two sizes on a trail you know.

 

[zizajaun]

"For our size, Forbidden ebike geometry is basically an exercise in cognitive dissonance. " . Sums it up well. Its really challenging when you can just ride the two sizes on a trail you know.

I don't understand. Where does the cognitive dissonance come from? And how does riding both sizes on familiar trails make it worse?

If the issue is that the bikes have a short reach and high stack, which makes reach-based fit misleading, you can easily compare bikes using normalised reach. I do this in a spreadsheet using this formula:

norm_reach = ((reference_stack - stack)*reach_per_stack) + reach

where:
reference_stack is an arbitrary figure, perhaps your preferred stack or the stack of a bike you're familiar with (I use 650mm as it's round number and I like a high stack, but it can be anything)
and
reach_per_stack is the change in reach per millimeter increase in stack (roughly -0.45 mm for bikes with 62-64 degree head angles)

If you don't want to make a spreadsheet, you can do quick, rough calculations in your head when looking at geo charts. Basically, norm_reach decreases by about half as much as the stack increases. So you just subtract the reference stack from the actual stack (this might be a negative number), divide it by two, and add it to the actual reach.

Example:

Suppose your current bike is a medium Whyte Kado with a reach of 460 and stack of 634, so you want to use 634 as your reference stack. The 'NoughtE S2 has a stack of 648, which is 14 mm higher than the Kado, so you add 7 mm to the reach of the 'NoughtE, giving you 445+7 = 452. So the S2 is basically 8mm 'shorter' than your current bike. The S3 has a reach of 461 and stack of 669, so it's as if your current bike had a reach of ((669-634)/2)+461 = 478.5 mm, which is 18.5 mm longer.

This approach assumes that you want the same riding position on both bikes, i.e. your stem/bars/grips are in the same place (both vertically and horizontally) relative to the bottom bracket. In other words, it treats reach and stack as fungible: having more stack is equivalent to having more reach, because you can adjust your stem height to compensate for any differences. I think this is a fair assumption when comparing bikes of the same kind, e.g. two enduro bikes or two XC bikes. It's less useful when comparing across styles, e.g. you may want to be more 'upright' on a DH bike than an XC bike.

 

[Slowerontheups]

I don't understand. Where does the cognitive dissonance come from? And how does riding both sizes on familiar trails make it worse?

If the issue is that the bikes have a short reach and high stack, which makes reach-based fit misleading, you can easily compare bikes using normalised reach. I do this in a spreadsheet using this formula:

norm_reach = ((reference_stack - stack)*reach_per_stack) + reach

where:
reference_stack is an arbitrary figure, perhaps your preferred stack or the stack of a bike you're familiar with (I use 650mm as it's round number and I like a high stack, but it can be anything)
and
reach_per_stack is the change in reach per millimeter increase in stack (roughly -0.45 mm for bikes with 62-64 degree head angles)

If you don't want to make a spreadsheet, you can do quick, rough calculations in your head when looking at geo charts. Basically, norm_reach decreases by about half as much as the stack increases. So you just subtract the reference stack from the actual stack (this might be a negative number), divide it by two, and add it to the actual reach.

Example:

Suppose your current bike is a medium Whyte Kado with a reach of 460 and stack of 634, so you want to use 634 as your reference stack. The 'NoughtE S2 has a stack of 648, which is 14 mm higher than the Kado, so you add 7 mm to the reach of the 'NoughtE, giving you 445+7 = 452. So the S2 is basically 8mm 'shorter' than your current bike. The S3 has a reach of 461 and stack of 669, so it's as if your current bike had a reach of ((669-634)/2)+461 = 478.5 mm, which is 18.5 mm longer.

This approach assumes that you want the same riding position on both bikes, i.e. your stem/bars/grips are in the same place (both vertically and horizontally) relative to the bottom bracket. In other words, it treats reach and stack as fungible: having more stack is equivalent to having more reach, because you can adjust your stem height to compensate for any differences. I think this is a fair assumption when comparing bikes of the same kind, e.g. two enduro bikes or two XC bikes. It's less useful when comparing across styles, e.g. you may want to be more 'upright' on a DH bike than an XC bike.

Cool thanks for this, also I mistyped, meant to say, its really challenging when you "Can't" just ride both sizes.