Forbidden DreadNought E

[eDrifter80]

Are you guys going with 600wh or 800wh battery?

Currently, I have a SC Vala and I love how nimble and fun the bike is. I’m a bit afraid of the 24kg of the Dreadnought if I go with the 800wh battery…

 

[ntm95]

Are you guys going with 600wh or 800wh battery?

Currently, I have a SC Vala and I love how nimble and fun the bike is. I’m a bit afraid of the 24kg of the Dreadnought if I go with the 800wh battery…

Mine's coming with the 800, but I'd much prefer the 600.

 

[iJak]

As far I know, 600wh seems to be hard to come by and probably not in the initial batch of shipments in Canada. LBS are carrying only 800wh.

 

[Powerslider]

A S3 Dreadnaught E has a super-long wheelbase... 1298.2 mm; yet has a really short reach at only 461 mm. The rear center @ 463 mm is actually longer than even the longest setting on a Crestline 181.2 (adjustable 435-460 mm)! I wonder if this abnormally-long rear end is why Forbidden is hiding their chainstay length spec.

Wheelbase specs for context:
Levo Evo (S4) - 1263 mm
Crestline 181.2 (RH3) - 1268-1293 mm
Orbea Wild (MD) - 1252 mm
Pivot Shuttle LT (MD) - 1280/1288

 

[ntm95]

A S3 Dreadnaught E has a super-long wheelbase... 1298.2 mm; yet has a really short reach at only 461 mm. The rear center @ 463 mm is actually longer than even the longest setting on a Crestline 181.2 (adjustable 435-460 mm)! I wonder if this abnormally-long rear end is why Forbidden is hiding their chainstay length spec.

Wheelbase specs for context:
Levo Evo (S4) - 1263 mm
Crestline 181.2 (RH3) - 1268-1293 mm
Orbea Wild (MD) - 1252 mm
Pivot Shuttle LT (MD) - 1280/1288

That's not even that crazy. I wouldn't ride a crestline in anything but the 460mm position.
Heck, the acoustic dreadnought has a 470mm chainstay, if desired.
They're not hiding anything, rear center is chainstay length...

And to address the long wheelbase comment, you'll find that bikes with more balanced f/r ratios feel shorter for a given wheelbase measurement. Particularly the forbidden e-bikes with their shorter reach and higher stack.

 

[Powerslider]

That's not even that crazy. I wouldn't ride a crestline in anything but the 460mm position.
Heck, the acoustic dreadnought has a 470mm chainstay, if desired.
They're not hiding anything, rear center is chainstay length...

And to address the long wheelbase comment, you'll find that bikes with more balanced f/r ratios feel shorter for a given wheelbase measurement. Particularly the forbidden e-bikes with their shorter reach and higher stack.

Are you saying then that all the other bikes have a super-short wheelbase? That 1298 wheelbase is going to be an absolute semi truck in tight switchbacks! The slack 63º headtube isn't going to help it feel less train like in the twisties either.

Regardless, the Dreadnaught is an outlier. Maybe for the better, but worth being aware how unique its geo is. This is a bike that is so different I'd need to test it before buying. I don't always feel that way.

 

[ntm95]

Are you saying then that all the other bikes have a super-short wheelbase? That 1298 wheelbase is going to be an absolute semi truck in tight switchbacks! The slack 63º headtube isn't going to help it feel less train like in the twisties either.

Regardless, the Dreadnaught is an outlier. Maybe for the better, but worth being aware how unique its geo is. This is a bike that is so different I'd need to test it before buying. I don't always feel that way.

I'm saying that you'll be surprised that the only place you'll feel the wheelbase is with the additional stability it provides in a straight line.
Something like the levo 4 is vastly more clunky feeling in corners, due to the less balanced f/r ratio.

Also it is worth pointing out that you're comparing medium bikes to a size large forbidden. A cresty in size large is a 1290mm wheelbase.

 

[Powerslider]

I'm saying that you'll be surprised that the only place you'll feel the wheelbase is with the additional stability it provides in a straight line.
Something like the levo 4 is vastly more clunky feeling in corners, due to the less balanced f/r ratio.

Also it is worth pointing out that you're comparing medium bikes to a size large forbidden. A cresty in size large is a 1290mm wheelbase.

First, I'm comparing the bike size that's appropriate for me; regardless of the size nomenclature.

Not buying that the trailer truck wheelbase (and slack head angle) will only bring benefit. I'm interested enough to try it, but I'm highly skeptical. All evidence points to it being as nimble as a freight train. Never tried one, so maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[ntm95]

How tall are you, and inseam length ?
If you’re shopping medium elsewhere, you want a sz2.
Ignore the reach numbers here, they are irrelevant due to the very high stack.

I can only speak to my experience with the edruid and acoustic dreadnought, but they really don’t handle like the numbers might suggest.
Bit of a different riding style (through the feet/hips, rather than the hips/shoulders) that takes a couple days to adjust to, but overall a positive change.
Something like a Levo 4 is an absolute slug in comparison.
I’ve spent time on the Bosch powered cresty too, and would take the handling of the Druid 10 times out of 10 over it.
Still a great bike, just not quite as great.

Edit- Just noticed you are from AZ, that'll be part of the puzzle. The whole balanced f/r ratio thing really makes it's money in fast corners, which there are very few of in Arizona. I could see why some people prefer short stays and shorter wheelbases there. The riding tends to be slower in general, and more about picking your way down things.

 

[Powerslider]

How tall are you, and inseam length ?
If you’re shopping medium elsewhere, you want a sz2.
Ignore the reach numbers here, they are irrelevant due to the very high stack.

I can only speak to my experience with the edruid and acoustic dreadnought, but they really don’t handle like the numbers might suggest.
Bit of a different riding style (through the feet/hips, rather than the hips/shoulders) that takes a couple days to adjust to, but overall a positive change.
Something like a Levo 4 is an absolute slug in comparison.
I’ve spent time on the Bosch powered cresty too, and would take the handling of the Druid 10 times out of 10 over it.
Still a great bike, just not quite as great.

Edit- Just noticed you are from AZ, that'll be part of the puzzle. The whole balanced f/r ratio thing really makes it's money in fast corners, which there are very few of in Arizona. I could see why some people prefer short stays and shorter wheelbases there. The riding tends to be slower in general, and more about picking your way down things.

Again, forget the nomenclature. I’m choosing the appropriate size that I’d pick for each bike. Interestingly, Forbidden doesn’t overlap their size suggestions; so they’re clear that my 5’ 11”-plus height is solidly in S3.

Forgive me if I’m sounding negative. Perhaps you’re detecting frustration from my thinking that this bike could’ve been something I’m interested in buying. However the unique geo is bringing serious doubt.

 

[ntm95]

Again, forget the nomenclature. I’m choosing the appropriate size that I’d pick for each bike. Interestingly, Forbidden doesn’t overlap their size suggestions; so they’re clear that my 6’ 11”-plus height is solidly in S3.

Forgive me if I’m sounding negative. Perhaps you’re detecting frustration from my thinking that this bike could’ve been something I’m interested in buying. However the unique geo is bringing serious doubt.

View attachment 183392

Yeah, 5’11” is solidly a sz3 forbidden.
If you get a chance to try one, keep an open mind, and focus on staying off your hands in corners.
Took me at least a week to adapt, but all my descending pr’s got demolished afterwards.

 

[iJak]

Again, forget the nomenclature. I’m choosing the appropriate size that I’d pick for each bike. Interestingly, Forbidden doesn’t overlap their size suggestions; so they’re clear that my 6’ 11”-plus height is solidly in S3.

Forgive me if I’m sounding negative. Perhaps you’re detecting frustration from my thinking that this bike could’ve been something I’m interested in buying. However the unique geo is bringing serious doubt.

Funny thing is this bike's geo is the reason why I want it. I know ntm95 is part of the raised reverse stem forum and I've recently tested a much higher rise on my Crestline 180 in RH3 (29, 455 chainstay, 1285 wheelbase) . I had a regular stem setup then decided to add 70mm of spacers and reversed my DH stem - smashed PRs this weekend. Overall this forced a new riding position where I am more upright and to turn, I am leaning/driving the handle bars while staying weighed in my feet/legs. This leads to a much quicker recovery from corners. This setup helped with making the bike feel much lighter as I didn't have to muscle the bike as hard.

The geo of the dreadnought mimics the same idea. Yes the wheelbase is long af, but I see this geo more of this:
Imagine a pogo stick, you are overall upright and inline - balance point is right inbetween your legs. Your hands are on the bar for additional balance, where majority of your weight is on your foot where you can easily transition between jumps of different camber.
Let says you have a different pogo stick where the balance point is now at your belly button, so you have to over hover. When you jump you now have to utilize more of your arms to offset the balance of your feet. This is not ideal in pogo stick world, and in the case of Forbidden's One Ride Trifecta geo, ratio beyond 1.8 is not ideal.

 

[Red Peekay]

Thanks - The problem is there will be none available to ride around - For the first batch at my LBS they are getting in an S3 but I need put a deposit and order it asap or wait and hope the July batch will have more sizes.

Welcome to my world. Similarly, sit between S3 and S4. My LBS adamant that I should be a S4, but in the end based on all the feedback here ordered the S3. My 09 Santa Cruz nomad a XL but shorter reach than the Dreadie or Druid so I'm used to riding a smaller feeling bike.
I reckon you'll make it work no matter what you pick.

 

[sethimus]

rear center is chainstay length

no it's not. all forbidden have the same chainstay length, but different rear centers, because they move the pivot point with each size more to the rear. therefore, suspension kinematics stay the same over all sizes

 

[Hob Nob]

A S3 Dreadnaught E has a super-long wheelbase... 1298.2 mm; yet has a really short reach at only 461 mm. The rear center @ 463 mm is actually longer than even the longest setting on a Crestline 181.2 (adjustable 435-460 mm)! I wonder if this abnormally-long rear end is why Forbidden is hiding their chainstay length spec.

You can’t isolate reach as the front half measurement of the bike, you have to consider stack height.

The span measurement on the Druid & Dreadnought is comparable to bikes with+15/20mm on the reach number & a more ‘traditional’ stack height. They just go about it a different way (which is a good thing IMO).

 

[Powerslider]

You can’t isolate reach as the front half measurement of the bike, you have to consider stack height.

The span measurement on the Druid & Dreadnought is comparable to bikes with+15/20mm on the reach number & a more ‘traditional’ stack height. They just go about it a different way (which is a good thing IMO).

I'm less concerned about the reach as much as the super-long wheelbase. While it will deliver advantages; I cringe at the thought of how it would handle tight switchbacks, and quick and/or tight zig zags.

Overall I do think it's a great thing that someone is bringing a unique solution to the market. I'm just not sure it's right for me. The uniqueness does make me more interested to demo one if I stumbled upon the opportunity.

 

[ShapeThings]

Welcome to my world. Similarly, sit between S3 and S4. My LBS adamant that I should be a S4, but in the end based on all the feedback here ordered the S3. My 09 Santa Cruz nomad a XL but shorter reach than the Dreadie or Druid so I'm used to riding a smaller feeling bike.
I reckon you'll make it work no matter what you pick.

 

[sethimus]

I'm less concerned about the reach as much as the super-long wheelbase. While it will deliver advantages; I cringe at the thought of how it would handle tight switchbacks, and quick and/or tight zig zags.

Overall I do think it's a great thing that someone is bringing a unique solution to the market. I'm just not sure it's right for me. The uniqueness does make me more interested to demo one if I stumbled upon the opportunity.

according to chatgpt, the % in increased wheelbase is about the same % of additional leaning angle needed to get the same radius than with a bit shorter bike. i compared 127cm wheelbase to 130cm and it's about 2.4%

 

[Highland Wheels]

I'm less concerned about the reach as much as the super-long wheelbase. While it will deliver advantages; I cringe at the thought of how it would handle tight switchbacks, and quick and/or tight zig zags.

Overall I do think it's a great thing that someone is bringing a unique solution to the market. I'm just not sure it's right for me. The uniqueness does make me more interested to demo one if I stumbled upon the opportunity.

My Druid has a wheelbase of 1317cm and it has zero issues in tight n techy stuff tbh. I think the way that Forbiddens geo is fairly different to most things out there means folk just look at the numbers have a version of how they think it'll ride, whereas the reality is it probably doesn't ride how folk think.


It's a shame demo bikes are so limited for folk to actually try out. I welcome anyone to try my giant sized S4 Druid

 

[Powerslider]

My Druid has a wheelbase of 1317cm and it has zero issues in tight n techy stuff tbh. I think the way that Forbiddens geo is fairly different to most things out there means folk just look at the numbers have a version of how they think it'll ride, whereas the reality is it probably doesn't ride how folk think.


It's a shame demo bikes are so limited for folk to actually try out. I welcome anyone to try my giant sized S4 Druid

Comments here keep personalizing this unnecessarily. Compare the geo to other comparable bikes on the market. Objective data points to a design that is biased towards stability and not agility.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Are you saying then that all the other bikes have a super-short wheelbase? That 1298 wheelbase is going to be an absolute semi truck in tight switchbacks! The slack 63º headtube isn't going to help it feel less train like in the twisties either.

Regardless, the Dreadnaught is an outlier. Maybe for the better, but worth being aware how unique its geo is. This is a bike that is so different I'd need to test it before buying. I don't always feel that way.

I think this rings true for all forbidden bikes, they feel very different pointed down than riding on flats/between trails

 

[Ribinrobin]

First, I'm comparing the bike size that's appropriate for me; regardless of the size nomenclature.

Not buying that the trailer truck wheelbase (and slack head angle) will only bring benefit. I'm interested enough to try it, but I'm highly skeptical. All evidence points to it being as nimble as a freight train. Never tried one, so maybe I'm mistaken.

i went from a a levo 4 to the druid corE, as i own a normal druid. CorE rides similar though not same as my normal druid, it rides way way more agile than the levo. The levo felt like a enduro truck bike in comparison.

 

[Hob Nob]

I'm less concerned about the reach as much as the super-long wheelbase. While it will deliver advantages; I cringe at the thought of how it would handle tight switchbacks, and quick and/or tight zig zags.

Overall I do think it's a great thing that someone is bringing a unique solution to the market. I'm just not sure it's right for me. The uniqueness does make me more interested to demo one if I stumbled upon the opportunity.

That’s the beauty of the bike market now, it’s not just cookie cutter designs with a different logo on the front of the head tube.

If you want to prioritise something that can be more lively you can pick something a bit more traditional / generic & size it accordingly & those who have tried bikes which push the ‘normal’ and have found they like them, then they have a choice now too. I think the industry is slowly moving more towards what Forbidden offer now, people are realising for us taller folk, a truely proportional bike is expected.

If your important buying factors are as you have defined, is the Druid not the more sensible choice in your case?

 

[Db1234]

@Pilot_Dave if you have the ability to get a weight of the bike that would be appreciated. No probs if not! I'm trying to work out if/what weight i can save on the bike and yours is the same as mine in spec and size. I have 23.98kg off PinkBike for the T2 800w but interested to know if thats accurate for the S2 sizing. Thanks. Dave

 

[ntm95]

no it's not. all forbidden have the same chainstay length, but different rear centers, because they move the pivot point with each size more to the rear. therefore, suspension kinematics stay the same over all sizes

View attachment 183405

That’s splitting hairs over terminology.
The insinuation was that they were attempting to hide something by giving a rc rather than a cs length.
The opposite is true, rc is a more accurate and useful measurement, as it is what actually matters for determining f/r ratio.
Many other brands use the terms interchangeably, unfortunately.

 

[sethimus]

That’s splitting hairs over terminology.
The insinuation was that they were attempting to hide something by giving a rc rather than a cs length.
The opposite is true, rc is a more accurate and useful measurement, as it is what actually matters for determining f/r ratio.
Many other brands use the terms interchangeably, unfortunately.

terms exist for a reason (exact language), you were wrong.

 

[Ou812]

At 168cm would you go S1 or S2? I’m always right in the middle of small and medium. I’ve found 2 S2s in stock and can have either one delivered next week but won’t be able to get a S1 until late this year early next.

 

[Db1234]

I'm a whopping 3cm taller than you and only just in the S2 bracket on their size guide. I'm coming from a S3 Kenevo SL (mullet) which was probably too long for me, technically speaking. I loved how stable it was and never had any problems getting it around the tight steep stuff around the naughty tracks in Llangollen and Grizedale. Those are steep & tight 180 degree switch backs into catch berms. Same with the tracks around the Wrekin. See you're in Scotland so you probably ride The Golfie? i get that large (for me) bike down all of those no problem. Size never held me back.

Wheelbase on the S2 Dread is actually smaller than the S3 Kenevo.

 

[Powerslider]

i went from a a levo 4 to the druid corE, as i own a normal druid. CorE rides similar though not same as my normal druid, it rides way way more agile than the levo. The levo felt like a enduro truck bike in comparison.

Other than some person saying that online, there’s very little evidence of that being likely. Even the Pinkbike review described the bike as a DH bike with a motor. I’m not even saying that’s a bad thing or a mistake. I’m just looking at the available information and thinking this bike is likely biased too much towards stability for me.

 

[Ou812]

I'm a whopping 3cm taller than you and only just in the S2 bracket on their size guide. I'm coming from a S3 Kenevo SL (mullet) which was probably too long for me, technically speaking. I loved how stable it was and never had any problems getting it around the tight steep stuff around the naughty tracks in Llangollen and Grizedale. Those are steep & tight 180 degree switch backs into catch berms. Same with the tracks around the Wrekin. See you're in Scotland so you probably ride The Golfie? i get that large (for me) bike down all of those no problem. Size never held me back.

Wheelbase on the S2 Dread is actually smaller than the S3 Kenevo.

I occasionally get down to the golfie to ride, mainly when we go down to Edinburgh to visit my mother-in-law. I’m up in the Highlands, we have some really good local trails in and around Inverness and I try to get over to Tarland at least once a month.

Ideally I’d want to test ride but that’s not going to be possible. The closest Forbidden dealer to me is having a demo day next month but no S1s will be available. I prefer around a 440 reach so on paper the S2 should be good but I’ve had that bite me in the ass before with one of my old bikes.