E-specific cassette and chain?

[MadManPedal]

Saying I can easily wear out 11T, 13T cogs with E-bike under 500 miles. The average speed is 30mph of every 50 miles. Is it fast?
Also, by the time the cog is done, the chain isn't even stretched beyond 0.5mm, but the chain is changed somehow. So it means another new chain and new cogs.
Just don't have durable drivetrain. Anybody feels the same way (at high average speed of course)?

 

[Rusty]

I think the biggest issue to chain/sprocket life is a 2-fold (or is that 3-fold?) thing. Firstly with motor assist you are getting a lot more torque and power going through the drive-train than anything human powered. Next you have to take into account there really is no drive-train specifically designed for ebikes - as well as manufacturers putting high-end 11sp/12sp stuff that wears out way too quickly. Then you have the rider hitting the turbo button instead of dropping down a few gears.
Have seen literally dozens of trashed rear clusters and for the most part the 4 or 5 biggest rings are in pretty reasonable shape - with the smallest 2-3 totally trashed.

My suggestion is to swap the drivetrain for something 10 speed and stick to something like the SLX system or equivalent. Chains and clusters are way cheaper allowing replacement when required instead of trying to eke out a few more rides. Another bonus is that the steel clusters last a LOT longer.

 

[TPEHAK]

Mine 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on 10 speed shimano Deore start skipping probably in less than 500 miles. I use ebike specific chain. Chain gets stretched over 0.5mm in 800 miles. I use my bicycle for commute and spend a lot of time on 11 and 13 teeth sprockets. Motor is derestricted Yamaha PW-X.

I can buy those 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on ebay, but it is so annoying to change those sprockets so frequently. I am also not very happy with changing chain each 800 miles. I would like to have something more durable.

 

[Sander23]

I thought I was the only one having the issue.
I've had the same issue with my deristricted e-bike. My previous drivetrain was Shimano XT and my bike literally eated my casette and chain. I could only do around 500 km on the 2 smallest cogs before they started skipping. I ordered the 2 smallest cogs, replaced them worked first time well, but had to replace it again after 500km. Seccond time I replaced it it even skipped with a brand new cogs, couldn't get it fixed so I swapped the whole drivetrain.

I switched to a 8speed sram ex1 drivetrain. What I noticed was the the chain was heavier and the smallest sprockets thicker. Now I have done 1200km done when it started skipping, chain was only at 0.40 wear. Replaced the 3 smallest cogs in a set and works perfectly again.

Many will say ex1 sucks and is way expensive blablabla...
But it's been the best thing I've changed on my bike. When the cogs wear out I just replace the cogs and chain SRAM XG-899 EX1 Cassette Sprocket Set | Chainrings & sprockets Shop got these on a 50% off sale and bought 3 of em, chain at SRAM PC EX1 8-Speed Chain 144 links E-Bike | Chain 8-speed Shop

 

[Rusty]

Mine 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on 10 speed shimano Deore start skipping probably in less than 500 miles. I use ebike specific chain. Chain gets stretched over 0.5mm in 800 miles. I use my bicycle for commute and spend a lot of time on 11 and 13 teeth sprockets. Motor is derestricted Yamaha PW-X.

I can buy those 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on ebay, but it is so annoying to change those sprockets so frequently. I am also not very happy with changing chain each 800 miles. I would like to have something more durable.

Try going up at the front from whatever is standard. Have done that for a friendrecently and now he runs in 15 & 17 almost as much as he does 11 & 13 - if not more. Spreading the stress around sprockets 2 or 3 teeth larger really helps prevent chain & sprocket wear.

BTW - many of the so-called eMTB chains are worse than standard 10sp chains.
Stay away from hollow pins or slotted links and you will find better wear.

 

[Madmatt75]

Saying I can easily wear out 11T, 13T cogs with E-bike under 500 miles. The average speed is 30mph of every 50 miles. Is it fast?
Also, by the time the cog is done, the chain isn't even stretched beyond 0.5mm, but the chain is changed somehow. So it means another new chain and new cogs.
Just don't have durable drivetrain. Anybody feels the same way (at high average speed of course)?

How are you able to average 30mph?? No wonder they wear so fast.

 

[TPEHAK]

It looks like that SRAM PC EX1 8-speed chain comes with EX1 drivetrain is actually sized for 10 speed drivetrain, which means this is actually thinner 10 speed chain. I'm wondering if SRAM EX1 8-speed drivetrain works with real ticker 8-speed chain from non OEM manufacturer? With KMC EPT 8s chain for instance?

 

[MadManPedal]

How are you able to average 30mph?? No wonder they wear so fast.

It has to be this way. 30mph for ever 50 miles has to be the least requirement for the next-gen riders. If you count the expenses riding a bicycle nowadays vs driving a car. Driving a car is cheaper, a lot cheaper in fact. If cycling so expensively and you don't get the speed then there is no point cycling with so much technology that's 100 years ago and obsolete.

Besides I pedal late night around the lake road without a lot traffic.

 

[TPEHAK]

How are you able to average 30mph?? No wonder they wear so fast.

He probably rides with 1500W Bafang motor

 

[Davemtb]

Mine 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on 10 speed shimano Deore start skipping probably in less than 500 miles. I use ebike specific chain. Chain gets stretched over 0.5mm in 800 miles. I use my bicycle for commute and spend a lot of time on 11 and 13 teeth sprockets. Motor is derestricted Yamaha PW-X.

I can buy those 11 and 13 teeth sprockets on ebay, but it is so annoying to change those sprockets so frequently. I am also not very happy with changing chain each 800 miles. I would like to have something more durable.

I was doing similar on my previous de restricted HT with Yamaha and 10sp (Giant Fathom E+2), 150km / week riding . To achieve good mileage from the drive train, you need to clean the chain every 150-200km. I use an ultrasonic cleaner with the chain in a jar of turps. Pulls all the grit out. Put back on bike and re-lube. I do this weekly. I could get up to 4000km from a chain and cassette. Then I would double the cassette life by putting new 11T & 13T cogs on (the ones on eBay). Only the 11&13T cogs would wear because riding consistently in this gears.
If you want to save money, get meticulous about solvent cleaning your chain.
Cheers

 

[Rusty]

How are you able to average 30mph?? No wonder they wear so fast.

Personally I am too big to ride that kind of speed on anything except my road bike. However, on the loop I used to train on the road bike I would occasionally go out on my Singlespeed and complete the 42km loop with a 30-32 kph average. On either my roadie or my SS I would have lightweight roadies blitz by my most rides. A friend did the loop on my SS and averaged well over 40kph.

 

[MadManPedal]

I was doing similar on my previous de restricted HT with Yamaha and 10sp (Giant Fathom E+2), 150km / week riding . To achieve good mileage from the drive train, you need to clean the chain every 150-200km. I use an ultrasonic cleaner with the chain in a jar of turps. Pulls all the grit out. Put back on bike and re-lube. I do this weekly. I could get up to 4000km from a chain and cassette. Then I would double the cassette life by putting new 11T & 13T cogs on (the ones on eBay). Only the 11&13T cogs would wear because riding consistently in this gears.
If you want to save money, get meticulous about solvent cleaning your chain.
Cheers

This sounds like an at least 1.5-2 hour lengthy maintenance. Riding in a swift mood, the mileage will go like 100 miles every day. So that means cleaning the chain every 2 days.
It's probably not that realistic to clean and lube the chain with so much effort and especially the time.
However, I do find out it's much cheaper and quicker to get the small cogs replaced firstly other than a new chain, the chain hasn't been stretched beyond 0.5mm yet, which is contrary to many advices from bike retailers' recommendation of changing the chain firstly to save their deliciated cassettes. It's just the 2nd replaced cog worn out twice as fast.

 

[Davemtb]

No more than half an hour of hands on work to deep clean the chain each week. If I didn’t invest in an ultrasonic cleaner, I would shake the chain in a container of turps. A huge amount of grit comes out, which all settles out so the turps can be reused over and over. There is a fair amount of metal in the grit, shown by running a magnet over it. I’m assuming the fine metal in the grit was once part of the chain! The oil soaked grit is like grinding paste to your chain.

 

[MadManPedal]

Sounds like a solution. I guess it's time to get an ultra sonic chain cleaner.

 

[Sander23]

This sounds like an at least 1.5-2 hour lengthy maintenance. Riding in a swift mood, the mileage will go like 100 miles every day. So that means cleaning the chain every 2 days.
It's probably not that realistic to clean and lube the chain with so much effort and especially the time.
However, I do find out it's much cheaper and quicker to get the small cogs replaced firstly other than a new chain, the chain hasn't been stretched beyond 0.5mm yet, which is contrary to many advices from bike retailers' recommendation of changing the chain firstly to save their deliciated cassettes. It's just the 2nd replaced cog worn out twice as fast.

I just use a Parktool chain cleaner every 300 km and wipe down the chain after every ride lube it a bit and done. Takes only 5 min time to do

 

[MadManPedal]

I just use a Parktool chain cleaner every 300 km and wipe down the chain after every ride lube it a bit and done. Takes only 5 min time to do

5 min? I have park tool as well. That thing took me at least 1 hour to clean, rinse, clean x2, rinse, wipe, and wait dry and relube the chain. Waiting for the chain to dry take 10 more minutes alone. Plus you have to deal with cassette.

 

[MadManPedal]

No more than half an hour of hands on work to deep clean the chain each week. If I didn’t invest in an ultrasonic cleaner, I would shake the chain in a container of turps. A huge amount of grit comes out, which all settles out so the turps can be reused over and over. There is a fair amount of metal in the grit, shown by running a magnet over it. I’m assuming the fine metal in the grit was once part of the chain! The oil soaked grit is like grinding paste to your chain.

Also, how often do you change the quick link? A KMC quick link can be switched on and off 2 or 3 times as recommended. I don't use KMC chain or KMC quick link for now because they are not that compatible to Shimano cassette.

 

[Davemtb]

Also, how often do you change the quick link? A KMC quick link can be switched on and off 2 or 3 times as recommended. I don't use KMC chain or KMC quick link for now because they are not that compatible to Shimano cassette.

I use the same quick link over and over until the chain is worn. That’s up to 20 chain removals. Worked for KMC e10 turbo, now doing the same on my SRAM NX eagle chain (new bike).
I always carry an old quick link just in case, but luck to never had a chain snap.

 

[Gary]

I don't use KMC chain or KMC quick link for now because they are not that compatible to Shimano cassette.

It'll probably surprised you to hear that KMC have been making chains for Shimano for many many years.

 

[MadManPedal]

It'll probably surprised you to hear that KMC have been making chains for Shimano's for many many years.

? It may surprise you better KMC chain last 300 miles on my drivetrain.

 

[Gary]

Nothing surprises me about you.

 

[Rusty]

After breaking the derailleur on my first eMTB also screwing the chain I fitted a KMC X12. The bike had 1800 kms when I sold it and most of them were with the KMC. That was with SLX cluster.

 

[MadManPedal]

Nothing surprises me about you.

Again, don't scream that loud

 

[MadManPedal]

After breaking the derailleur on my first eMTB also screwing the chain I fitted a KMC X12. The bike had 1800 kms when I sold it and most of them were with the KMC. That was with SLX cluster.

The problem with harder KMC chain is the cassette cogs will be worn down even faster than the slightly soft Shimano's chain. But KMC chain is almost in a state out of duty. And I cannot tell the difference with naked eye on the cogs.

 

[Rusty]

The problem with harder KMC chain is the cassette cogs will be worn down even faster than the slightly soft Shimano's chain. But KMC chain is almost in a state out of duty. And I cannot tell the difference with naked eye on the cogs.

Stick to the cheaper steel clusters and not a problem. Fancy alloy clusters, while lighter and prettier when new last bugger all time. Hell, I used to destroy a brand new Shimano XT or XTR cassette in 1 24hr solo event.

 

[Gary]

Harder KMC chains?
is this a new level of bullshit?
Or did you simply believe the marketing blurb on the chain packaging ?

Sprockets and chainrings don't wear due to chain roller/plate metal hardness. They wear from friction, friction caused by shifting, mank/dirt/debris and chain roller/pin tolerance not to mentiin poor shifting under load causing excess friction. The baggier your chain pivots/rollers become. The more the teeth will wear.
I'm not even sure why you'd be using mtb gearing if night riding around a lake on a super heavy over torqued illegally tuned motor at 30mph is your hobby.
Your input here is valued but its so skewed/niche its barely even relevant to EMTB

 

[MadManPedal]

Would somebody give this guy a file to chip and test the rolling pin between KMC and Shimano? You can report back the result if you've never actually ride them before.

 

[MadManPedal]

Ever rolling over a road bump, rock, wood chunk at 40mph? on a road bike? good luck with that after your wheel destroyed or ass shaked off the bike.

 

[Gary]

I'm actually riding my roadbike twice a day (day and night) every day at the moment and hit 40mph on shite roads each and every ride. (On 23mm tyres at 110psi a rigid carbon frame and fork).
My ass doesn't get shaken at all and I've run the same rims for 6 years straight with zero damage. But I'm a fairly experienced rider so I'm not sat down blindly riding into things or over super rough surfaces like a lazy incompetent twat and I have the skill to hop potholes etc.
What exactly is your point?

test the rolling pin

If only

might knock some sense into ya

 

[MadManPedal]

Like I said, you've never ran though a road bump before while at 40mph. Keep sitting in front your monitor and typing until I get the miles tonight.