Dji avinox- Amflow - Discussion

ZR1 said:
But at the same time if you are a higher cadence climber, any change in cadence/input gets amplified way more by the avinox therefore less control so you may prefer a lower power motor.
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I don't understand why you would choose not to have the option of more power, if you found a climb you couldn't clear in lower power, as described by the forum member above.

A high powered motor can be setup to run at high or low power. More or less amplification. A low power motor can only be run at low power. Why choose to not have the option, unless you don't have the riding skills to control the bike at the higher power ?

I'll be the first to admit. Learning to control a full powered EMTB, with high over-run, is a skill you need practice to learn. I certainly didn't jump on the Amflow and use the highest power modes the first time I rode it. This is the same for Shimano, Bosch or Avinox. So these noobs jumping on these bikes that they have not setup, and running them at the highest power settings, and struggling, is not a revelation.

But you're right. Some riders will never use the full potential of the Avinox motor. But that is no reason to not have the option, if they do acquire the skill to use it, later in their riding career. It's not like you are paying a weight cost with the Avinox System.
 
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irie said:
It is an irrelevant option if you know you will never need it.
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There will always be climbs that cannot be be done due to the power limitation of a human, that can be conquered with more assisted power. The advent of the EMTB has proven that.

That said. If you really aren't into climbing. Then yes. Any motor system will suffice.

I believe this advent of higher assist is creating a completely new sport of technical climbing. Resorts are actually now creating technical climbing specific trails on the backs of these new EMTB systems. It's growing the sport of EMTB and making going uphill as much fun as going downhill. Literally doubling your days fun.

Currently I look for downhill runs where there is a technical climb out. I enjoy both, but at 60yo, prefer the uphill, as there is less risk of serious injury.
 
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Astro66 said:
There will always be climbs that cannot be be done due to the power limitation of a human, that can be conquered with more assisted power. The advent of the EMTB has proven that.

That said. If you really aren't into climbing. Then yes. Any motor system will suffice.

I believe this advent of higher assist is creating a completely new sport of technical climbing. Resorts are actually now creating technical climbing specific trails on the backs of these new EMTB systems. It's growing the sport of EMTB and making going uphill as much fun as going downhill. Literally doubling your days fun.
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Keep trucking Astro, you're always right. 😃
 
I would have thought that the 40-point traction control system on the Avinox would far outperform the one on the Bosch which I believe only has a single pick-up point be wheel rotation.

I do not have a cx5 but I rode the new Levo the other day and the Amflow in my limited 25 year experience is the better bike by far on technical, rooty and rocky climbs.
 
John_likes_bikes said:
Traction control?
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The Avinox motor has a 42 point speed sensor on the wheel. It reads wheel rotation speed 42 times per revolution, like an encoder. Thus if you get wheel spin. It can detect the sudden change in wheel speed quickly, and back the power off, like they do in traction control.
 
Astro66 said:
The Avinox motor has a 42 point speed sensor on the wheel. It reads wheel rotation speed 42 times per revolution, like an encoder. Thus if you get wheel spin. It can detect the sudden change in wheel speed quickly, and back the power off, like they do in traction control.
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I totally get the concept and how Avinox is different with the ring, I wasn't aware that with that the system can read feedback from the wheel and adjust. I thought it only read input from the rider/pedals. Where's there more detail about that, I'm curious?

In FAQ's is says the below, which isn't totally clear to me. The "sutomatic supressions of wheel slippage" reads like traction control but it's also sounds a little like marketing spin.

1755707925209.png
 
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John_likes_bikes said:
The "sutomatic supressions of wheel slippage" reads like traction control but it's also sounds a little like marketing spin.
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There are videos on Youtube from reviewers who have done slippage tests. They claim that the Avinox motor produces less dust when climbing the same low traction climb as other motors. So not exactly the most scientific testing. But I certainly get less wheel spin when climbing the same wet stairs as my Shimano EP801 motor.

That said. With the Avinox, I have spun out on a set of stairs that had painted edges and were wet, causing me to fall. But I had approached them really slowly and had tried to power up them, then when my front wheel hit a transition. The rear wheel unweighted and spun.

The wheelie incident suppression seems to not work in the higher modes. The bike wheelies very easily. But that is something I like, as I can control the wheelie with the rear brake. It may be more tuned to work in "Auto Mode".
 
ArjanH said:
I would have thought that the 40-point traction control system on the Avinox would far outperform the one on the Bosch which I believe only has a single pick-up point be wheel rotation.

I do not have a cx5 but I rode the new Levo the other day and the Amflow in my limited 25 year experience is the better bike by far on technical, rooty and rocky climbs.
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It’s how the Avinox does it (but even then I’d be surprised if it used only that), but it’s not the only way to skin a cat, to use a well worn (but slightly puzzling!) expression.

Bosch does traction control as well, but it doesn’t rely on the wheel speed sensor, but uses a host of Mems sensors in the motor. Slightly different approach, but does the same job. I haven’t ridden the Gen4 Levo over any testing terrain so couldn’t comment on that motor.
 
Entonox said:
Hi.
Is it possible to order the Large with 160mm cranks?
What other third party cranks are compatible?

Thanks.
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Hi Entonox
, what third-party cranks did you end up going with?
I’m looking at the race face ERA-E carbon cranks they look like they have the correct 21.8 offset, but I’m not sure if the outer boss at the Isis interface might rub the chain ring spider, does anyone know?
 

Another good video from Iain. Reminder than Iain isn't sponsored by Amflow and purchased the bike with his own cold hard cash. He is very honest with the bike.
 
BigFoot said:
Hi Entonox
, what third-party cranks did you end up going with?
I’m looking at the race face ERA-E carbon cranks they look like they have the correct 21.8 offset, but I’m not sure if the outer boss at the Isis interface might rub the chain ring spider, does anyone know?
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I ended up buying the 160mm cranks from Amflow.
 
Highland Wheels said:
Let's gloss over the fact its a sponsored video by Amflow 😂
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I not glossing over anything. I'm not sponsored. I have posted the same conclusions. Much to the teeth gnashing of the legacy riders. 🤣

When a journo comes to the exact same conclusion as what you have experienced when technical climbing. That's normally a confirmation of both theirs, and your experience.
Astro66 said:
For me. It's not about the extra power the Amflow gives you. It's the extra momentum when climbing.
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And it's just not me who has experienced the superior climbing of the Avinox System. When multiple independent riders post the same conclusion. That's normally a consensus, not glossing over.

"As I stated earlier 👆🏻, there’s a technical hill climb (down hill for mtb) that I was not able to quite conquer with my previous Bosch Race Crestline. (Around ten previous attempts in 1st and 2nd gear)
My FIRST attempt this morning with the RS181 I nailed it in 3rd gear!!! All the way up without taking a foot off the pedals, in Turbo mode."

www.emtbforums.com

Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

I have both and maybe can shed some light. I live near Bellingham where these bikes were conceived and met both owners. My Regulator CX is now 160/170 with vivid coil. I upgraded the dropper to 210 from 180. With all these upgrades, this bike is super dialed and on the same level as the...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com

All these posts confirm what Steve Jones has posted.
 
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Plyphon said:

Another good video from Iain. Reminder than Iain isn't sponsored by Amflow and purchased the bike with his own cold hard cash. He is very honest with the bike.
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Interesting how much quieter this motor is (in terms of rattle) vs the one in the EMBN video above.
 
megabobra said:
Interesting how much quieter this motor is (in terms of rattle) vs the one in the EMBN video above.
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For what it's worth - I also thought the same about my motor. I don't consider my motor a 'rattly' motor at all. Yet Rob's Unno and the bike in the EMBN video seem to suffer.
 
So Cesar at Unno test bike has now ticked over 5800kms and quarter of a million Meters of Elevation and still has zero issues on the original motor. Mostly in boost as well so I recon it's safe to assume that long term reliability on the Avinox motor is up there

1000043377.png
 
Pyr0 said:
not hearing any creaking, but i do hear quite a bit of rattle
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To me it sounds like what I've had in the past when motors just won't sit right I had a Levo that Specialzed modified to make that go away. Of course it's happens from seatpost, stems etc too. If that's motor rattle then eeek maybe I want a Gen 5 instead... I mean, that's happening going uphill, while he's pedaling :oops:
 
Astro66 said:
I don't understand why you would choose not to have the option of more power, if you found a climb you couldn't clear in lower power, as described by the forum member above.

A high powered motor can be setup to run at high or low power. More or less amplification. A low power motor can only be run at low power. Why choose to not have the option, unless you don't have the riding skills to control the bike at the higher power ?

I'll be the first to admit. Learning to control a full powered EMTB, with high over-run, is a skill you need practice to learn. I certainly didn't jump on the Amflow and use the highest power modes the first time I rode it. This is the same for Shimano, Bosch or Avinox. So these noobs jumping on these bikes that they have not setup, and running them at the highest power settings, and struggling, is not a revelation.

But you're right. Some riders will never use the full potential of the Avinox motor. But that is no reason to not have the option, if they do acquire the skill to use it, later in their riding career. It's not like you are paying a weight cost with the Avinox System.
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Same here, run mine in Auto 99% of the time.


IMG_5498.jpeg
 
Zed said:
To me it sounds like what I've had in the past when motors just won't sit right I had a Levo that Specialzed modified to make that go away. Of course it's happens from seatpost, stems etc too. If that's motor rattle then eeek maybe I want a Gen 5 instead... I mean, that's happening going uphill, while he's pedaling :oops:
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As an Amflow owner. Yes there is rattle when holding pedals flat over chunk at speed. But it is far quieter than my Shimano EP801. No, I have never heard any rattle when pedaling uphill.

I never noticed the rattle till I listened for it. Of all the criteria I grade my EMTBs. Rattle has never been substantial enough in any of the motors I've owned, to even rate a mention. With all the other tyre and chain noise. I just don't notice it unless I'm listening for it. And I have more important things on my mind when downhilling at speed.

But if downhilling over chunk with a motor and drive system that is silent was an important factor to me. I'd look at the most silent downhill EMTB. And that would be the Pinion MGU. But, for me, the Amflow ticks all the really important boxes i want in an EMTB. The Pinion MGU does not.

If Avinox bring out an MGU that is as well supported in Australia, like the Avinox M1 system. I would consider it. My commuter E-Bike is a Gates belt drive system, and is the best EBike I have owned. I have done zero maintenance to the drive system in 10,000km. No cleaning. Nothing at all. It's amazing.
 
Astro66 said:
As an Amflow owner. Yes there is rattle when holding pedals flat over chunk at speed. But it is far quieter than my Shimano EP801. No, I have never heard any rattle when pedaling uphill.

I never noticed the rattle till I listened for it. Of all the criteria I grade my EMTBs. Rattle has never been substantial enough in any of the motors I've owned, to even rate a mention. With all the other tyre and chain noise. I just don't notice it unless I'm listening for it. And I have more important things on my mind when downhilling at speed.

But if downhilling over chunk with a motor and drive system that is silent was an important factor to me. I'd look at the most silent downhill EMTB. And that would be the Pinion MGU. But, for me, the Amflow ticks all the really important boxes i want in an EMTB. The Pinion MGU does not.

If Avinox bring out an MGU that is as well supported in Australia, like the Avinox M1 system. I would consider it. My commuter E-Bike is a Gates belt drive system, and is the best EBike I have owned. I have done zero maintenance to the drive system in 10,000km. No cleaning. Nothing at all. It's amazing.
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Well, I've had 7 ebikes thus far. The rattliest were the original Gen 4 Bosch motors. It wasn't particularly bad in my alloy Orbea Wild but it was terrible in my carbon Trek Rail (XTR, top tier very $$$) - so much so I said goodbye to that bike pretty quickly. Hence, I have some trepidation about getting a rattley motor. I want a smooth quiet bike, like my Stumpjumper is.

Both my Levos had zero rattle, my Rocky Mountain had zero, TQ had zero - and I VERY much appreciated it in all of them.

Not even vaguely interested in pinion/belt drives, unless it happens to be on a bike I want for better reasons. It's not a negative or a positive for me. My analog bike is wonderfully quiet without all that proprietary fluff that might have me waiting weeks for parts.

Each to their own though!

I'm still trying to work out DJI vs current Bosch, probably in the form of Amflow vs Vala. Then again, maybe I go SL and work on my fitness. After I watched Knuts real world test of DJI vs 100nm Gen 5 for climbs, there's not enough in it for the DJI power to matter at all to me. The DJI manages to do it lighter, which does matter but it's just one factor.
 
Zed said:
Both my Levos had zero rattle, my Rocky Mountain had zero, TQ had zero - and I VERY much appreciated it in all of them.
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Any motor can be made silent. The issue becomes the reliability when using materials and designs that make them silent. It also impacts size of the motor when using the quieter materials and adding the quieter design elements.

I'd rather the compromises of a super reliable, small and light motor, that delivers top of sport performance. But as you say. We all have different things that are important to us.
 
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