Dji avinox- Amflow - Discussion

[Astro66]

My overall point is don't be sucked into all the marketing hype

I don't see how trusting a nearly 50 year established Bike Store, that I've used for nearly 20 years, is getting sucked in. I'd be more concerned with getting sucked in by a first day social media post.

But we all source our information from different streams ......

 

[Mad_Angler1]

I don't see how trusting a nearly 50 year established Bike Store, that I've used for nearly 20 years, is getting sucked in. I'd be more concerned with getting sucked in by a first day social media post.

But we all source our information from different streams ......

I really hope society has not got to the stage where someone's social media post history is used to determine their knowledge or acceptance or we are all doomed . However if post count is on socials is the measure in that the case i'm a genius. however I can with zero doubt confirm that's not the cas .

Anyways looking forward to seeing how this all plays out and what DJI have done to get some of that extra power as they ain't developed anything magical in the drone industry so far that explains the power bump over say the Bosch. It's not like Bosch don't know how to make a motor or battery system. DJI have a lot of experience to but I suspect it's all simply a case of different drive RPM and gearing with some extra pull from the battery.

Looking forward to what is found when people get to start to tear these down independently.

 

[Mikerb]

Just as aside, if you use a Bosch cx4 and want a much broader support at low cadence and greater ability to access max power without even having to use turbo, experiment with the power settings in Flow. I have modified my settings and now only ever use emtb offroad. On techy climbs and can be at a virtual standstill and get instant response from the motor to get over obstacles. OK depending on the terrain you use more battery but it is not the same as riding in turbo all the time. When only light or moderate torque is applied it is far more controllable and natural.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

It's not like Bosch don't know how to make a motor or battery system.

That's literally the key distinction that DJI brings to the table. They know how to make *efficient* propulsion systems - it's their core business.

Bosch just pulled a cheap windshield wiper motor off the shelf and slapped it into a hastily cobbled gearbox. The huge profits that come from this low effort strategy of re-purposing $4 wiper motors as $1000 e-bike motors is what drew in all these random automotive manufacturing companies like Bosch, Brose, ZF, Yamaha, etc. who know nothing about efficiency. What the auto industry considers "efficient" is absolutely laughable to the aviation industry.

DJI simply realized that by spending $6 on a well optimized motor instead of $4 on a generic industrial motor they'd be able to offer twice the power-to-weight ratio of anything else on the market.

 

[electricbogaloo]

Yeah, interesting perspective apart from the fact that bosch has the most energy efficient full power motor in terms of range probably because they have the most experience with ebike motors. But their approach to integration and software reminds me of outdated german car industry product politics.

 

[Mad_Angler1]

That's literally the key distinction that DJI brings to the table. They know how to make *efficient* propulsion systems - it's their core business.

Bosch just pulled a cheap windshield wiper motor off the shelf and slapped it into a hastily cobbled gearbox. The huge profits that come from this low effort strategy of re-purposing $4 wiper motors as $1000 e-bike motors is what drew in all these random automotive manufacturing companies like Bosch, Brose, ZF, Yamaha, etc. who know nothing about efficiency. What the auto industry considers "efficient" is absolutely laughable to the aviation industry.

DJI simply realized that by spending $6 on a well optimized motor instead of $4 on a generic industrial motor they'd be able to offer twice the power-to-weight ratio of anything else on the market.

IV seen nothing to suggest the G4 was a basic motor. Not saying it's cuting edge, I have not been able to see fully yet but I would have expected them to be using brusless motors, I'd be shocked if not .

DJI absolutely will be taking very much the same overall setup as used in our aircraft but it's not that advanced.

DJIs experience is pretty much the same as the whole drone industry in motors and drivers all following a simple overall design. Driving a brusless 3 phased motor is fairly simple the complexity comes with timing on the phases and the drive voltage waveform. In smaller drones our motors are running at over 40,000 rpm so timing it's biggest issue as your battling dsync if you get it wrong.
we generally used back emf of a phase to detect where the motor is in its rotation and that is used to predict where the rotor is in its rotation and power the relivent phase at the correct time and duration.

Timing is a much smaller problem at the rpm being used here compared to our racing motors that are 1800kv or more.

For these motors I would expect due to the size you able to get hall sensors in for position so this becomes a none issue.


The biggest area for efficiency improvements on a well designed motor is actually the drive voltage and current waveform it's self. As we are still in a DC system you are trying to drive something that is expecting a sinasoidal drive with a square DC drive. We are not converting back to AC to enable to drive the motor perfectly however there are several methods of how you do that with DC such as PWM or SFOC however to get the very most efficiency you need a drive voltage waveform that matches the one the motor would produce if you spun the motor and looked and voltage and current on a scope on each phase.

DJI will absolutely be using whats been learnt in drones but it's basic stuff tbh. Most of the escs now are all based on open source software and hardware costs less than £60.

However yes it's likely new to bikes for sure and will bring benefits.

As is said on Bosch they are not one for being on the cutting edge lol.

 

[KnollyBro]

I've had a great relationship with Camden Cycles in Sydney Australia, who are a Amflow dealer. They have been nothing but exemplary with looking after bikes I have bought from them. I would expect the Amflow to be no different.

They are a Specialised and Giant dealer. I bought a Giant Talon from them. I would be extremely surprised if they would take on the Amflow dealership, if there was any chance of tarnishing their very good reputation

I have been in to talk to them about the Amflow, and they have only good things to say about the information coming out of DJI.

So whilst I appreciate your drone experience and joining this forum today to express your drone experience. Once again I will defer to the people I trust in the EMTB world. Which is people like Rob and other reputable long standing EMTB journo's. And also my local bike store like Camden Cycles, who have earned my trust through nearly 50 years of servicing the local bike industry.

That said. If you get some experience with the Amflow bike. I would love to hear it.

Oh BTW. The boys at Camden Cycles tell me the Amflow PL Carbon Pro 800wh is currently their best selling EMTB. With the other 2 Amflow variations coming in second and third. So I guess we'll find out quite quickly how Amflow perform as an EMTB manufacturer.

Its good to hear that a LBS has taken on a new product line as at least you can get any warranty issues dealt with thru a LBS. Do you know if there have been any warranty claims/issues yet that Camden has had to deal with? I was wondering what their turn around time was to get any repairs done. In Canada, even with a big company like Specialized, I had to wait over 4 weeks to get a motor replaced as the LBS had send off paper work to Specialized Canada, then the motor had to be order, then I had to wait for my place in the que to get it installed. I hope Camden can do better than that for Amflow. I would not buy an emtb online given all the things that potentially could go wrong. You are fortunate to have a Amflow dealer in your area as the bike looks great!

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks to @Mad_Angler1 for his fascinating insights. I am very happy with my current bike so I wasn't planning on a new bike any time soon. But now I'm going to wait at least a year or so for the dust to settle to see what responses DJI make to warranty issues and (a big one here) spares.

 

[Mikerb]

That's literally the key distinction that DJI brings to the table. They know how to make *efficient* propulsion systems - it's their core business.

Bosch just pulled a cheap windshield wiper motor off the shelf and slapped it into a hastily cobbled gearbox. The huge profits that come from this low effort strategy of re-purposing $4 wiper motors as $1000 e-bike motors is what drew in all these random automotive manufacturing companies like Bosch, Brose, ZF, Yamaha, etc. who know nothing about efficiency. What the auto industry considers "efficient" is absolutely laughable to the aviation industry.

DJI simply realized that by spending $6 on a well optimized motor instead of $4 on a generic industrial motor they'd be able to offer twice the power-to-weight ratio of anything else on the market.

really?!! I think you may have overlooked that Bosch make a huge range of white goods, handtools, gardening/landscaping tools..............all with electric motors...............quite apart from their automotive range. An extract from their EV Division
"
The 800V electric motor now going into volume production has 830 Nm torque and 460 kilowatts output. Thanks to the use of I-pin bar winding, the motor’s efficiency, compactness, and level of automation in production can be further improved.

In terms of power-to-weight ratio, this delivers 35 percent more power density, at 60 kilowatts per kilogram. On top of this, it offers a torque density of 105 Newton meters per kilogram. This means that the Bosch motor achieves a maximum efficiency of up to 98 percent. The next generation of the electric motor will feature oil cooling.

Yep..Bosch just make windscreeen wiper motors!! LOL

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

really?!! I think you may have overlooked that Bosch make a huge range of white goods, handtools, gardening/landscaping tools..............all with electric motors...............quite apart from their automotive range. An extract from their EV Division
"
The 800V electric motor now going into volume production has 830 Nm torque and 460 kilowatts output. Thanks to the use of I-pin bar winding, the motor’s efficiency, compactness, and level of automation in production can be further improved.

In terms of power-to-weight ratio, this delivers 35 percent more power density, at 60 kilowatts per kilogram. On top of this, it offers a torque density of 105 Newton meters per kilogram. This means that the Bosch motor achieves a maximum efficiency of up to 98 percent. The next generation of the electric motor will feature oil cooling.

Yep..Bosch just make windscreeen wiper motors!! LOL

Surely thats a car electric motor? 800nm and 460 KW (or 500bhp+)? As for a $4 windscreen motor, thats nonsense, there are no $4 windscreen motors anywhere, not even scrapyards. Obviously a raving idiot whoever posted that nonsense.

 

[Fangs2k]

I seem to remember reading in e-mountainbike magazine that e-bike motors were developed on the back of washing machine/dryer motors.

How true that is I don’t know, but electric motors are not exactly new, and over the years have got smaller and more powerful.

Shame water sealing hasn’t progressed at the same rate!

 

[Mad_Angler1]

I seem to remember reading in e-mountainbike magazine that e-bike motors were developed on the back of washing machine/dryer motors.

How true that is I don’t know, but electric motors are not exactly new, and over the years have got smaller and more powerful.

Shame water sealing hasn’t progressed at the same rate!

It's unlikely to b white goods as that's all AC however it's insanity to think Bosch don't know how to make a good DC motor considering they are one of the largest battery handtool manufacturers in the world and said to hold 25% of the total market globally.

Where DJI will have the "legs" over Bosch is their willingnees to do things differently and push the boundaries and not be held back by their history and legacy.


Bosch is a big old company that's a corporate beast that makes more motors and rotating gear like high pressure fuel pumps that probably anyone else. However that's not to say they are also not held back by their own corporate mindset.

DJI have done something with Avinox that caught everyone's attention. The Clarkson approach of "Power" however there HAS to be a payoff, a trade off.

The more that comes out means more is going in to give you that extra power. Their ain't enough efficiency savings to make up that boost mode so they are either have bigger batteries than they are suggesting or you will pay in the run time.

DJI I suspect is using pouch packs in their cell and could be able to be getting more capacity that way. They have custom manufactured cells for their drones so I suspect they have done the same here.

Something also to note is WH rating and C rating on battieries is compely madup guff a lot of the time and battery ratings are often vastly exadurated. Especially when it comes to C rating. DJI 800wh is not nessarly the same as Bosch 800wh.

A lot of testing is needed to understand this all.

 

[Astro66]

I really hope society has not got to the stage where someone's social media post history is used to determine their knowledge or acceptance

Ummm ....... Maybe it's something cultural going on. But this is exactly how I fact check posts that are a criticism or a glowing review.

Are you asking me to just believe everything I read on the internet ? That will end well.

You seem very genuine, and a fountain of information. It's just some of that information doesn't 100% align with information I've sourced from sources I have met face to face. So I will keep that in mind when assessing it.

But please. It's always great to get varied perspectives.

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Ummm ....... Maybe it's something cultural going on. But this is exactly how I fact check posts that are a criticism or a glowing review.

Are you asking me to just believe everything I read on the internet ? That will end well.

You seem very genuine, and a fountain of information. It's just some of that information doesn't 100% align with information I've sourced from sources I have met face to face. So I will keep that in mind when assessing it.

But please. It's always great to get varied perspectives.

Just to pick you up on a point and it'd not me being difficult but you have said your dealer is great. That is something that is fantasic and not in any doubt. Zero.

However you said they have had good things coming out of DJI. That's to be expected. DJI are not going to be saying bad things or being difficult right now. However the fact is no one in this industry has long term dealing with DJI really yet so yes they may be hearing good things but that don't change the fact of how they are as a company and have been for the last 14 years.

I'm not even saying DJI is really that much worse than Bosch or Shimano for some of the parts things ect however they absolutely have their really bad sides that are well known that are anti repair more than most and are regarded by many governments as a national security risk.

While the price of the products may not be the same DJI have done some pretty shady things times and a lot of it is around safety. This is all publicly searcable information and just one of them as an example was in 2018 they were knowingly selling a model of their their industrial drones the M200 that had a battery issue that would cause them to randomy fall from the sky, it was bug in the firmware in the batteries. These were not small 600g toy quads either this was 4-6kg £10K+ enterprise models that were widly used by police and indisty. This was happening so much that in the the end the UK Civil Aviation Authority and others around the world had to release a safety notice grounding the use of these drones untill DJI fixed it as they were ignoring the issue.

DJI knew about that issue for months before it was fixed and there were post all over the place showing this happening however they just ignored it and even refused warranty repairs as a result of it. This is classic DJI never admitting to a fault.

There is a reason the US government, Australian goverment and others are looking to ban them and while a lot of it centers around national security their corporate behavor also plays a part. Not all of the noise around them is true but it don't change the fact their is seriouse issues around them at times.

In the end my point is If Apple made the ibike tomorrow everyone would be complaining and talking about the fact of things they hate about Apple as they well known. DJI is less so known but it don't change the fact at times they have behaved very badly towards it's customers especially around data security, support and safety and this should be understood and taken into account.

I'm not saying the product is bad and it may be very good. The best even but just don't be blind to the critusim and behavor of the past outside this world as it's important when knowing who your dealing with.

I don't doubt for a single moment people won't love the bike and as I said I'd be seriously tempted if it was a little cheaper.

Anyways sorry for the long one I'll leave this one there.

 

[Dax]

The boys at Camden Cycles tell me the Amflow PL Carbon Pro 800wh is currently their best selling EMTB. With the other 2 Amflow variations coming in second and third. So I guess we'll find out quite quickly how Amflow perform as an EMTB manufacturer.

Over what time period? Have they physically touched an Amflow bike yet?

Every LBS I’ve spoken to about Amflow has admitted it’s a gamble, but doesn’t want to miss out on sales if it turns out as good as the hype, suspect your LBS is the same.

Go buy one and report back in a few months if it’s broken and how good the warranty is.

 

[Astro66]

That is something that is fantasic and not in any doubt. Zero.

However you said they have had good things coming out of DJI. That's to be expected. DJI are not going to be saying bad things or being difficult right now. However the fact is no one in this industry has long term dealing with DJI really yet so yes they may be hearing good things but that don't change the fact of how they are as a company and have been for the last 14 years.

Rather than speculating. As we want to give this forum the most accurate data. Why don't you call them or email them, and they can answer any issues you have ?

As an expert on DJI. You should be able to ask the right questions, to satisfy your concerns. Then post a full report of factual responses direct from an Amflow Dealer.

I look forward to your report, as I am very interested in these bikes.

Contact

Camden Cycles

www.camdencycles.com.au

There is a reason the US government, Australian goverment and others are looking to ban them

With our close geographic positioning, China is Australia's biggest trading partner by a factor of 2. We export to them far more than we import and thus we signed a trade agreement with them in 2015. We won't be banning or tariffing any of their products any time soon.

The Amflow starts at AUD$9,400. That's only £4785. For a light weight carbon bike with high spec components, it's very well priced, and this is mainly due to our good trading relationship with China.

We are experiencing the same benefits in Electric Vehicle pricing. So whilst I'm cautious about China. I enjoy the benefits of our close relationship.

 

[Astro66]

Over what time period? Have they physically touched an Amflow bike yet?

Every LBS I’ve spoken to about Amflow has admitted it’s a gamble, but doesn’t want to miss out on sales if it turns out as good as the hype, suspect your LBS is the same.

Go buy one and report back in a few months if it’s broken and how good the warranty is.

I'm just reporting what they have told me. You can confirm this by going to their website and sorting on their best selling bikes.

Here ...... I'll do it for you.

Do it yourself if you wish.

Camden’s bicycle store stocking brands Specialized, Giant and more

Camden Cycles

www.camdencycles.com.au

Regarding purchasing one. My EMTB is only 6 months old. So there is no need for me to rush in. I'm sitting back and waiting for the many sold to be reported on from actual Amflow owners. We are getting reports in this thread, and not just Rob's, Will's and Steve Jones. But from everyday people. So I'll wait.

Regarding being a gamble. These guys have one of the best reputations in the region, selling Santa Cruz, Scott, Specialized and Giant. They are not a big chain, and prices reflect their personal service and reputation. I don't see them gambling. But sure ........ I could be wrong.

 

[electricbogaloo]

It's unlikely to b white goods as that's all AC however it's insanity to think Bosch don't know how to make a good DC motor considering they are one of the largest battery handtool manufacturers in the world and said to hold 25% of the total market globally.

Where DJI will have the "legs" over Bosch is their willingnees to do things differently and push the boundaries and not be held back by their history and legacy.


Bosch is a big old company that's a corporate beast that makes more motors and rotating gear like high pressure fuel pumps that probably anyone else. However that's not to say they are also not held back by their own corporate mindset.

DJI have done something with Avinox that caught everyone's attention. The Clarkson approach of "Power" however there HAS to be a payoff, a trade off.

The more that comes out means more is going in to give you that extra power. Their ain't enough efficiency savings to make up that boost mode so they are either have bigger batteries than they are suggesting or you will pay in the run time.

DJI I suspect is using pouch packs in their cell and could be able to be getting more capacity that way. They have custom manufactured cells for their drones so I suspect they have done the same here.

Something also to note is WH rating and C rating on battieries is compely madup guff a lot of the time and battery ratings are often vastly exadurated. Especially when it comes to C rating. DJI 800wh is not nessarly the same as Bosch 800wh.

A lot of testing is needed to understand this all.

The windscreen wiper story is a half-truth as in yes they built their first ebike motors with in part with parts from their automotive and garden tools factory. But that was over 15 years ago. Obviously nowadays the motors have not much in common with the motors from that area and became highly specialized. Source in german:

Ein Motor für die Servolenkung als E-Bike-Antrieb

In nur fünf Jahren hat sich Bosch zum grössten Anbieter von E-Bike-Antrieben in Europa entwickelt. Firmenintern ist die Sparte jedoch noch ein Zwerg – allerdings mit grossem Potenzial.

www.nzz.ch

 

[Mikerb]

My point was that Bosch have vastly more experience and variety in the development of battery powered electric motor systems .......and yes right up to automotive EV power trains some elements of which are already being used by major auto manufacturers. Yes they may be more cautious or even Conservative in their approach, and that is a good thing in my book!
Proof of their credentials is easy to see in our field of use......they are no doubt the dominant ebike motor/battery system
The real test for the DJI motor etc will be whether it is made available to major emtb brands and who if anyone adopts it.

 

[Biano44]

My point was that Bosch have vastly more experience and variety in the development of battery powered electric motor systems .......and yes right up to automotive EV power trains some elements of which are already being used by major auto manufacturers. Yes they may be more cautious or even Conservative in their approach, and that is a good thing in my book!
Proof of their credentials is easy to see in our field of use......they are no doubt the dominant ebike motor/battery system
The real test for the DJI motor etc will be whether it is made available to major emtb brands and who if anyone adopts it.

Of course other 'major' E-MTB brands will be able to use it.....at least one is already in communication with them for 2-3 years time.
There is no question of innovation, ability or development but certainly the first motor system needs to prove it is reliable, and by that I mean, British winter proof?

 

[Gaba83]

Of course other 'major' E-MTB brands will be able to use it.....at least one is already in communication with them for 2-3 years time.
There is no question of innovation, ability or development but certainly the first motor system needs to prove it is reliable, and by that I mean, British winter proof?

Name? or at least the initial letter of this brand?

 

[Suns_PSD]

I think a consumer, but especially an established bike brand, would be insane to go with DJI/ Amflow over a new Bosch, for so many obvious reasons.

Although I don't have any inside experience like Mad_Angler1 appears to, I have this thing called common sense that I've learned after 53 years.

The wacky, over the top sudden need for way too much power by so many e-bikers, over all other relevant points, blows me away.

 

[Rando_12345]

I am repeating myself again, but many, maybe most of us, are not that interested by the DJI due to the power, it is the combination of power, low weight of the system and small size of the system that enables an SL like bike with full power. Coming from a company with a proven track record.

I would say established brands (Santa Cruz and Pivot among others) building bikes on top of Fazua's system which had and continues to have dogsh"t reliability is what is insane. Going with DJI is more of a gamble.

I have the DJI action camera, the quality is about the same as GoPro, but the software is so much nicer to use. Just got the DJI neo drone for 200$ (equivalent to 2 maxxis tyres), again the software in that thing is mind blowing especially when you know about computer vision and control engineering.

 

[Biano44]

Name? or at least the initial letter of this brand?

Initial letter is S. Spotted at he DJI HQ week before last. It's no secret to my knowledge.

All bike manufacturers will be at least asking about it.....it's clearly creating a storm in the E-MTB world. If they aren't you'd have to ask why not.
But I would imagine not one of them would commit until they have some evidence they are reliable and that they will be able to sell them freely in the USA.....if not, dead in the water.

 

[Redlemon]

You are correct on bikes not being as vertically integrated as drones yet however that's just a matter of time. Wait for the the AMFLOW V2 where they introduce their own front shocks ect.

This is not a great path for success, people are looking after the Avinox system, not the Amflow bikes...do not throw unknown chinese suspension in the mix on top...what a nightmare that would be for the end user.

DJI needs to secure a large OE contract to properly anchor themselves in the market and bypass some international challenges they're facing being the company they are.

Maybe they're about to secure a contract or something and we don't know, my guess is that they're going to be very agressive in their OE pricing to gain some precious market share.

 

[Gaba83]

Initial letter is S. Spotted at he DJI HQ week before last. It's no secret to my knowledge.

All bike manufacturers will be at least asking about it.....it's clearly creating a storm in the E-MTB world. If they aren't you'd have to ask why not.
But I would imagine not one of them would commit until they have some evidence they are reliable and that they will be able to sell them freely in the USA.....if not, dead in the water.

And 2nd letter? Ahahaha, there are way to many brands that begins with S...

 

[Mad_Angler1]

This is not a great path for success, people are looking after the Avinox system, not the Amflow bikes...do not throw unknown chinese suspension in the mix on top...what a nightmare that would be for the end user.

DJI needs to secure a large OE contract to properly anchor themselves in the market and bypass some international challenges they're facing being the company they are.

Maybe they're about to secure a contract or something and we don't know, my guess is that they're going to be very agressive in their OE pricing to gain some precious market share.

Agreed. The big concern is today DJI have never really successfully worked with partners or built and OE business since they moved to building everything.

In fact in drones they did the exact opposite and ended their component business.

They actually started as an OE business moved to total vertical integration. They used to sell all the main components for drones and now sell none.

It's going to be interesting to see if they can actually partner as they have a habit of just steam rolering everyone. The ones they did work with they either bought out like Hasselblad or it ended badly.

DJI like control, total control.

As for the issues you rightly say it's going to be challenging. DJI is deemed in the same manner as Huawei is and the US govmment have deemed them a threat to national security, Australia has raised similar concerns and they are already on a number of blocked lists for govermantal use.

There is currently a push in Congress to block them entirely from FCC certification and this would largely mean they are banned from import period. This technically would only affect products with wireless functionally however it's a big issue for them.

There is also a lot of talk about DJIs involvement with the CCP and links to human rights violations however iv never really bought that as anything more than political noise to try and get them banned. I have seen no evidence and it's not even out there that DJI has any involvement in any of that. However DJI is absolutely controlled by the CCP as any large Chinese based business is.

DJI is one of the most controversial companies on the plant right now when it comes to this stuff and are right up there with Tiltok and others.

Tbh the security and political issues have never really been an issue for me and it's always been their stupid behavor at times that causes issues. Like around parts, warranty and bugs.

I genuinely own more DJI gear than probably everyone on their group lol so I'm not against them that's for sure. However they are a complex beast that's for sure.

With regards to some of my comments on DJI bands, issues and problems this is all publicly available information if you simply search for it. It's all on the very surface. None of this hidden, hearsay or rumor. It's all very real and very now.

 

[Redlemon]

Agreed. The big concern is today DJI have never really successfully worked with partners or built and OE business since they moved to building everything.

In fact in drones they did the exact opposite and ended their component business.

They actually started as an OE business moved to total vertical integration. They used to sell all the main components for drones and now sell none.

It's going to be interesting to see if they can actually partner as they have a habit of just steam rolering everyone. The ones they did work with they either bought out like Hasselblad or it ended badly.

DJI like control, total control.

As for the issues you rightly say it's going to be challenging. DJI is deemed in the same manner as Huawei is and the US govmment have deemed them a threat to national security, Australia has raised similar concerns and they are already on a number of blocked lists for govermantal use.

There is currently a push in Congress to block them entirely from FCC certification and this would largely mean they are banned from import period. This technically would only affect products with wireless functionally however it's a big issue for them.

There is also a lot of talk about DJIs involvement with the CCP and links to human rights violations however iv never really bought that as anything more than political noise to try and get them banned. I have seen no evidence and it's not even out there that DJI has any involvement in any of that. However DJI is absolutely controlled by the CCP as any large Chinese based business is.

DJI is one of the most controversial companies on the plant right now when it comes to this stuff and are right up there with Tiltok and others.

Tbh the security and political issues have never really been an issue for me and it's always been their stupid behavor at times that causes issues. Like around parts, warranty and bugs.

I genuinely own more DJI gear than probably everyone on their group lol so I'm not against them that's for sure. However they are a complex beast that's for sure.

With regards to some of my comments on DJI bands, issues and problems this is all publicly available information if you simply search for it. It's all on the very surface. None of this hidden, hearsay or rumor. It's all very real and very now.

The more I read your posts, the more I realize how hard it'll be for DJI to gain a significant market share of the eMTB world.

The security concerns by some countries are legitimate and China are not even allowing that to happen in their own country, DJI are in for some tough legal battles that they have no chance to win.

If they stick to Amflow in order to have full control and force you into buying Amflow suspensions, wheels & ETC, I can only see them being a small player after the initial hype train die out...you can't be successful in the MTB world thinking like that.

We're talking here, but how is CCP affecting these large companies management ? Can they force DJI/Amflow to push chinese components on these bikes just for the sake of trying to improve their GDP instead of speccing suspensions out of Taiwan ?

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Good timing DJI lol.

Got this today. It seems they are taking more orders now.

I wish it was sub 5K

 

[Fangs2k]

I wish the black Pro was £5999!

I had the email as well, I suppose like everybody who registered interest, but I’m going to change the habit of a lifetime and wait for a test ride and some more long term reviews.

I was also out on my 70Nm Shimano E8000 yesterday, made me wonder why I needed more power to be honest!

Definitely won’t get fitter with 110Nm…

Damn it, why do I still want one?!